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#276 | |||
Ring of Famer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,334
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No Manning = No Manning offense. We know that the Tebow Cat can be implemented in a week with positive results (we did it last year and immediately went on a win streak). No pass first offense in NFL history could ever do that, simply due to receiver timing. Quote:
The first point is a strawman we've already resolved. Quote:
Tebow was the ideal buffer here. The team could have shifted gears on the fly if they lost Manning and used the same strategy that got them into the playoffs last year until Manning was healthy, relying on our D. He's young enough to keep Osweiler off the field while Brock develops fully. You let Tebow play out his contract behind Manning as that buffer and then let him walk with Osweiler fully ready to step in if needed. Instead if we lose Manning early we probably will start Osweiler before too long, and it will be to the detriment of both Osweiler himself and the long term return this team could have gotten out of him. |
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#277 | |
Kicking & Screaming
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 15,578
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My argument: The combination of needing to change the offense to a 1920s version and his insane fanbase means having Tebow at backup is not the great thing that you make it out to be. My argument: That if the Jets were really serious about having Tim be a legitimate backup QB, they wouldn't have him in harm's way blocking on punts. I don't think he's a legitimate NFL QB. I just don't. That's what's called "an opinion." You think he's destined for greatness, I'd rather not wait around to see if the long shot comes true. And while Caleb Hanie is nobody's idea of a great backup, he'll do in the short term while the circus moves out of town. What's more, he's actually performed in a throw-first offense. And on top of all that, I don't think Hanie is going to be the number 2 going into the season. And yeah, I was personally tired of the Tebow circus. Here, in the stadium, in the papers, everywhere, for a guy who quite simply isn't all that good at the position he's chosen to play. He could get better, sure, I just think it's far from a sure thing. |
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#278 |
Kicking & Screaming
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 15,578
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![]() That's RIGHT! First week of the Tebowcat against the mighty mighty Dolphins.
/yawn Wake me when the Tebowtards leave. |
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#279 | |
Headmaster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 69,057
Adopt-a-Bronco: Leo-TailGateNut |
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#280 | |
Kicking & Screaming
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 15,578
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#281 |
Franchise Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 32,136
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![]() And this is an important point that some people are missing. Elway and Fox decided it was the best thing for the organization to bring in a young QB (Osweiler) to groom for the future. It's much easier to do that when you don't already have a guy who wants to be that guy.
Edit to add that baja pretty much beat me to it... |
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#282 | |||||
Ring of Famer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,334
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His different skill set are an inherent part of his value. That throw back style actually WORKED last year, and was especially effective over a short stretch. This in a post-wild cat world so teams had something of a recipe on how to deal with it. That style of offense was also implemented on the fly mid-season. Again, hugely valuable since we can't keep running the Manning offense without Manning. No one could do it in Indy last year with a fully acclimated supporting cast of veterans. It isn't happening here. Quote:
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2. Opinions are like a-holes. Everybody has them. If you want yours to be viewed as anything more than what most a-holes put out back it up with some reasonable arguments. Quote:
Meanwhile the guy you say can't pass has a 75.1 career QB rating, 47.3% completion rate, and 17 to 9 TD to INT ratio. Also, that same guy started three games as a rookie in 2010 in what was still a pass first pro style offense. He had a QB rating then of 82.1, completed 50% of his passes, and had a 5 to 3 TD to INT ratio. This on the second worst team in the league with no running game, horrible defense, and no special teams help. So when you act like Hanie is a better fit for a pass first offense I'm left to ask what possibly supports that notion. Further, if Hanie is not the #2 then this organization is taking a massive risk with Osweiler's very fragile development. Quote:
Tebow's mass appeal should have had zero involvement in the decision, if the Broncos FO really is focused on putting together the best possible team for multiple title runs. |
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#283 |
Ring of Famer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,334
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![]() The Broncos didn't implement the Tebow Cat until after the Lions game. Prior to that point McCoy was still trying to run the same ****ty offense he installed for Orton. Hence why Tebow threw the ball 39 times against the Lions when our OL was getting destroyed every drop back all day long.
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#284 |
Headmaster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 69,057
Adopt-a-Bronco: Leo-TailGateNut |
![]() E&F are old school so for better or worse they wanted no part of the Tebow experiment. They are too set in their ways to risk the future of the Broncos on Tebow's potential. A decision we well may live to regret.
I have high hopes for Osweller as our QBOTF |
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#285 |
Franchise Poster
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 32,136
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![]() It's fine to have that opinion. And who knows, maybe you'll end up being right. But it's apparent that few, if any, organizations in the NFL agree with you based on the lukewarm (at best) interest in him when the Broncos made him available.
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#286 | |
Ring of Famer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,334
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Its as simple as this really: 1. Is Tebow a better backup option than Hanie? Obviously. 2. Does Tebow offer more as a part of the 53 man roster than Hanie, outside of being the #2 QB? Obviously. 3. Is Osweiler even close to ready? Seeings how they're tweaking his throwing mechanics and have already talked about him as a "long term" plan guy I'd say it's a pretty clear no. So given those three little factoids why would we then let Tebow's style of play make us settle for a #2 who is in every way inferior to Tebow? Hanie is even a worse pocket passer than Tebow, so regardless of where Tebow's skills may lie and what this org. might prefer he's still a better option, even shoehorned into a bad fit for him. The beauty of it all is that then we get to have two wildly different young QBs to groom so we've got two bites at the apple when it comes to replacing Manning, not just one. The odds are against Tebow taking a miraculous step forward and becoming a full fledged pocket passer, but he makes us a better team in the interim while we wait for Osweiler to get ready and we hold onto the lottery ticket of him taking that very step forward. |
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#287 | |
Ring of Famer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,334
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But he's a boom/bust prospect we already paid for and had already found a worthwhile niche that would make the 2012 Broncos a better team. Why sell that for pennies on the dollar if winning really is the top priority? Also, his pricing on the open market was in no way accurate. The Broncos made it quite clear he was going to get released if no trade was consummated. They had no bargaining power to get the truly best offers from anyone. |
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#288 | |
Headmaster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 69,057
Adopt-a-Bronco: Leo-TailGateNut |
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#289 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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![]() A potential for greatness yes, but as a football player or a QB? Not many QBs with potentials for greatness are thrown onto special teams. It's déjà vu. Sanchez is Orton now. Looks great in practice and camp while tebow struggles. Happened the exact same way last summer. Come regular season it will be the same road as the broncos took. 5 or so games in when Sanchez struggles tebow will get the call.
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#290 |
Ring of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bama
Posts: 9,437
Adopt-a-Bronco: The Defense |
![]() Drek, I commend you for bringing facts and being able to discuss this issue the way you have. However, you are not going to change the minds in the likes of TEKO, Tony, Baja etc. Allthough it is fun to watch you mop the floor with TEKO on the issue. It is helping to pass the time at work.
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#291 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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![]() All the b****ing in the world isn't bringing him back to Denver. It doesn't matter if you are right about him being great or if he is out of football in 2 years. He aint retiring a Bronco, so, time to move along.
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#292 | |
Headmaster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 69,057
Adopt-a-Bronco: Leo-TailGateNut |
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Keeping him would not be in his best interest why is that not clear? |
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#293 |
Ring of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bama
Posts: 9,437
Adopt-a-Bronco: The Defense |
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#294 | |
Kicking & Screaming
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 15,578
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#295 | |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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The Cards literally couldn't wait another day before they would've had to tell him "Thanks but no thanks" because of the need to pay Kolb otherwise. Point being that by the time Tebow was put on the block, almost all other teams with needs had committed to other options. In other words, we shopped Tebow at the worst possible time. |
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#296 |
Guest
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#297 |
Headmaster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 69,057
Adopt-a-Bronco: Leo-TailGateNut |
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#298 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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#299 | |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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So when they were shopping him back at the combine time, teams were already committed to other options? |
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#300 | |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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That question has not yet been answered. |
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