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Old 05-25-2012, 07:29 AM   #251
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Or the torching of Pittsburgh? So what's your answer, Caleb Hanie or Tim Tebow?
I'll take Peyton Manning.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:31 AM   #252
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Really, you think Peyton Manning couldn't have held down the starting job?

I just disagree with that. I think things would have settled down nicely.

The billboard was put up by a local business wanting attention, but you knew that.

Do you think the fans at the stadium were Tebow fans that will be gone, or isnt' it more likely those were Broncos ticket holders?

Just seems like everybody's transferring a bunch of internet furor to real life -- I just don't see how "the fans" have any ability to make trouble. The real pressure cooker for the last two years was that the team was losing its ass under Kyle Orton.
Oh, I think Manning would have held the job without issue. he's Peyton ****ing Manning.

It's hearing about it every day that we can do without. "NURRRR WHY DON'T YEW PUT IN TIIMMMMMMMM!MM!!??!??!" Think it wouldn't happen? First home game interception, you really think it wouldn't happen?

Yep, that billboard was put up by a business. Not the one soliciting donations to do so. That was fans. There were two instances, and only one of them went up.

I think they were Bronco ticket holders. But if you think they wouldn't holler for Tebow -- even with Manning under center if he struggles -- you're delusional.

I saw fans chanting for Tebow in the Raiders game last year after Eddie Royal dropped a pass that hit him directly in the hands. WR drops ball. Chant for QB. Got it.

I like Tim the person. I loved the run last year. The playoff win was a friggin' blast. But the Cult of Tebow is unreasonable.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:33 AM   #253
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I understand your frustration Drek. But at the same time, with the exception of the Steelers game, we got curb stomped by every good team we played last year. And once again with the exception of the Steelers game it appeared teams had figured out Tebow and the Tebow offense. The Steelers game is an outlier aided by a very banged up team that didn't play well and had a stupid game plan for whatever reason. Reality set back in when we played the Pats. Elway and Fox didn't think the future of this team was playing Tebow style football, they didn't want to deal with the distractions that Tebow brought, and clearly a lot of the players weren't happy with the whole situation based on the comments numerous players have made. Hell even McGahee, who benefitted greatly from Tebow, has made comments that indicate he's happier with the way things are now. I think the circus weighed on a lot of people last year.

Who would I rather have for one game? Tebow. But unfortunately the equation is a lot more complicated than that. The organization clearly viewed getting rid of Tebow to be a net positive. If we lose Manning for an extended period of time we're ****ed either way so let's hope we keep him upright and we won't need to think much about Tebow. Let them deal with the circus in NY.
1. Tebow was the most competitive aspect of our team in the regular season match up with New England. He had the offense rolling but the defense couldn't stop **** and McGahee (or was it Ball?) fumbled on a key drive in the second quarter. Capped off by Quan Cosby giving up another possession and 3 points to the Pats.

2. In the playoff game against New England our defense got ran off the damn field and our OL was completely unprepared. That game was a massive coaching failure, oddly enough right before both of our coordinators went for interviews with other teams.

3. The only games Tebow started where you can make a legitimate argument that his play lost the game for us was Buffalo (though the defense was already getting lit up before Tebow started turning the ball over) and Kansas City (where neither team could get any offense going).

4. I'm not arguing that the Broncos should have kept Tebow as the starter with Manning willing to come here. What I'm arguing is that the team suffered a net downgrade by replacing Tebow with Hanie when Tebow was obviously willing to work in a backup role and in special packages (like he now does for the Jets).

Right now there is no reason to think this team can win a single game if Manning gets hurt. Chicago had an elite defense and when they had to go with Hanie they turned into one of the worst teams in the entire league. Why do we think it'll be any different here?

A fear of Tebowmania is an excuse for b****es. A FO truly committed to doing everything needed to win a Super Bowl would have done the right thing, kept Tebow, incorporated him into our special teams, goal line, etc. packages, and knew that if Manning gets hurt they can roll the Tebow Cat offense back out and turn games into grind fests to keep competitive and salvage some W's while waiting on Manning.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:38 AM   #254
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Just seems like everybody's transferring a bunch of internet furor to real life -- I just don't see how "the fans" have any ability to make trouble. The real pressure cooker for the last two years was that the team was losing its ass under Kyle Orton.
I don't know, I used to think that way until the oddly negative comments about Tebow, either directly (like D. Thomas) or indirectly (like, most recently, McGahee) from numerous players. I just think Tebow's presence, and or the circus atmosphere and attention that came with his presence, weighed on a lot of players. Check out this comment from Woody Paige, involving Brian Dawkins, that went largely unnoticed last month:

Not only did the Broncos sign a pro and an all-pro (four times) in 2009, they brought in a captain (who organized workouts during the lockout) and, most people outside the organization don't realize it, a religious man who was responsible for making life easier for Tim Tebow when he came to the Broncos and again when he became the starting quarterback.

Dawkins prevented all the non- believers in the locker room from rebuking or ridiculing Tebow.


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I mean, seriously? Dawkins had to "protect" Tebow in the locker room? You just don't need that kind of sh*t going on within your organization, and I think a lot more was going on than we'll probably ever know about. And the Jets are about to find out all about it.

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Old 05-25-2012, 07:38 AM   #255
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I like Tim the person. I loved the run last year. The playoff win was a friggin' blast. But the Cult of Tebow is unreasonable.
And because of that you'd rather see the Broncos field a worse team instead of Elway and Fox fielding some but hurt Teboner questions?

Tebow wasn't named a top 100 player for 2012 by OTHER NFL PLAYERS for no reason. He's a play maker. This team still needs more play makers with the ball in their hands. Letting one go because it leads to inconvenient questions is not the right thing to do for the organization.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:39 AM   #256
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I saw fans chanting for Tebow in the Raiders game last year after Eddie Royal dropped a pass that hit him directly in the hands. WR drops ball. Chant for QB. Got it.

I like Tim the person. I loved the run last year. The playoff win was a friggin' blast. But the Cult of Tebow is unreasonable.
It would be the same way in Cleveland this year, but they've already indicated a desire to get Weeden in. Or anywhere else that has a questionable journeyman at quarterback.

I think people are latching onto this "circus" idea because, once again, Tebow is polarizing and forces our brains to just come to some sort of extreme position. The new mantra is "I like the fellow, but his circus is unbearable."

Because it's harder to hold a more nuanced thought in our brains, which is "I can't figure what to do with Tebow in my brain. The guy looks bad but good things seem to happen with an encouraging frequency."

I think his "fans" just want him to get the shot that any other quarterback of his caliber would get, and to stop all the nonsense of him not being an NFL caliber QB.

His footwork looked pretty good to me on video yesterday.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:43 AM   #257
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Still talking about the Jets backup are we?
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:45 AM   #258
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I mean, seriously? Dawkins had to "protect" Tebow in the locker room? You just don't need that kind of sh*t going on within your organization, and I think a lot more was going on than we'll probably ever know about. And the Jets are about to find out all about it.
So now Woody's the gospel, based on casual phrasing of Dawkin's positive presence? I don't think he means Dawkins was running around doing it as an official full time job. I think he means that Dawkins was every bit as religious as Tebow, and set a tone in the locker room that was not to be derisive about religious faith.

Seems like the Jets love the guy -- chanting Lolo at him yesterday was fine. Seemed to have been in good spirit.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:50 AM   #259
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Seems like the Jets love the guy --
This is how it mostly appeared on the surface in Denver, too. But behind the scenes there was clearly some resentment. Lots of egos to deal with and when the reporters run to Tebow after every game, and the national media focuses on him with almost every story, it starts rubbing people the wrong way. It's human nature. And in my opinion it's a distraction you don't need. And you particularly don't need it with a player you don't believe in, which appears to be the case with Elway, Fox, and probably other coaches and players as well.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:50 AM   #260
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And because of that you'd rather see the Broncos field a worse team instead of Elway and Fox fielding some but hurt Teboner questions?

Tebow wasn't named a top 100 player for 2012 by OTHER NFL PLAYERS for no reason. He's a play maker. This team still needs more play makers with the ball in their hands. Letting one go because it leads to inconvenient questions is not the right thing to do for the organization.
Yep, you nailed it. I'd rather see the Broncos be a worse team.

Come ON, Drek. You're making yourself out to be the perfect example of a Tebowner who will not let go. You used to be a very reasonable poster here, but you've lost your damn mind when it comes to the Jets' punt protector.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:52 AM   #261
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So now Woody's the gospel, based on casual phrasing of Dawkin's positive presence? I don't think he means Dawkins was running around doing it as an official full time job. I think he means that Dawkins was every bit as religious as Tebow, and set a tone in the locker room that was not to be derisive about religious faith.

Seems like the Jets love the guy -- chanting Lolo at him yesterday was fine. Seemed to have been in good spirit.
You didn't think they were mocking him? Really?

Sure came off as mocking to a lot of people, myself included.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:55 AM   #262
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Yep, you nailed it. I'd rather see the Broncos be a worse team.

Come ON, Drek. You're making yourself out to be the perfect example of a Tebowner who will not let go. You used to be a very reasonable poster here, but you've lost your damn mind when it comes to the Jets' punt protector.
Tebow has caused many a sane football fan to go off the deep end.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:02 AM   #263
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Tebow has caused many a sane football fan to go off the deep end.
it's ok...I'm saving them a seat on the bandwagon

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Old 05-25-2012, 08:04 AM   #264
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Yep, you nailed it. I'd rather see the Broncos be a worse team.

Come ON, Drek. You're making yourself out to be the perfect example of a Tebowner who will not let go. You used to be a very reasonable poster here, but you've lost your damn mind when it comes to the Jets' punt protector.
No, I'm a Broncos fan who wants to see the FO put the best 53 man roster together every season.

I don't care where Tebow's career ends up in ten years if it means as a backup he wins the Broncos a title. I think he'll be successful in the NFL but I have no personal vestment in it. I only care about what he could do for the Broncos.

Lets play out the hypotheticals.

1. Manning gets hurt, misses 1-4 games. You send in Hanie you probably lose all of those games. You send in Tebow you can probably pick up half or better. So lets say we're 8-2 when Manning gets hurt and he's going to miss three games. Would you rather see Manning returning to a 8-5 team needing three strong outings to secure a playoff birth or a 9-4 at worse, but very likely a 10-3 team that has already locked up a playoff birth?

2. Its 3rd and goal on the one yard line. We need a touchdown. Who would you rather hand the ball to out of all our current RBs and Tebow? If you watched any of the 2011 Broncos that answer is obvious because Tebow was money like no one else when it came to finishing out red zone possessions.

3. Manning gets hurt week three and is done for the rest of his career. Do you put an obvious project in Osweiler on the field way too early, or do you let Caleb Hanie play us into a top 5 pick? With Tebow we likely could revert to the 2011 offense with a few new wrinkles and still grind away a solid season, very possibly another division title and playoff birth.

I just fail to see ANY scenario where the Broncos are more likely to win football games after exchanging Tebow for Hanie. All I care about is the Broncos winning meaningful football games. Tebow helps with that in any hypothetical you can draw up. So why in the world would you swap him for someone who does nothing but hurt you?
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:05 AM   #265
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No, I'm a Broncos fan who wants to see the FO put the best 53 man roster together every season.

I don't care where Tebow's career ends up in ten years if it means as a backup he wins the Broncos a title. I think he'll be successful in the NFL but I have no personal vestment in it. I only care about what he could do for the Broncos.

Lets play out the hypotheticals.

1. Manning gets hurt, misses 1-4 games. You send in Hanie you probably lose all of those games. You send in Tebow you can probably pick up half or better. So lets say we're 8-2 when Manning gets hurt and he's going to miss three games. Would you rather see Manning returning to a 8-5 team needing three strong outings to secure a playoff birth or a 9-4 at worse, but very likely a 10-3 team that has already locked up a playoff birth?

2. Its 3rd and goal on the one yard line. We need a touchdown. Who would you rather hand the ball to out of all our current RBs and Tebow? If you watched any of the 2011 Broncos that answer is obvious because Tebow was money like no one else when it came to finishing out red zone possessions.

3. Manning gets hurt week three and is done for the rest of his career. Do you put an obvious project in Osweiler on the field way too early, or do you let Caleb Hanie play us into a top 5 pick? With Tebow we likely could revert to the 2011 offense with a few new wrinkles and still grind away a solid season, very possibly another division title and playoff birth.

I just fail to see ANY scenario where the Broncos are more likely to win football games after exchanging Tebow for Hanie. All I care about is the Broncos winning meaningful football games. Tebow helps with that in any hypothetical you can draw up. So why in the world would you swap him for someone who does nothing but hurt you?
Okay, man. Whatever you say.

We're all doomed because Tebow the Great Runslinger is no longer here. And all Tebow fans are sane and reasonable.

SMH.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:20 AM   #266
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But at the same time, with the exception of the Steelers game, we got curb stomped by every good team we played last year.
Sounds a lot like the 1998 Indianapolis Colts. Without the whole beating the defending AFC Champs in the playoffs part.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:37 AM   #267
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Okay, man. Whatever you say.

We're all doomed because Tebow the Great Runslinger is no longer here. And all Tebow fans are sane and reasonable.

SMH.
He's not saying we're doomed, butt munch. He's saying, with all other things being equal.....we're better off with Tebow as backup, than we are with Hanie as backup. That is all.

And he's right. You don't have to be a Tebow lover to figure that out. Love him or hate him....Tebow IS a better option than Hanie.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:43 AM   #268
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Okay, man. Whatever you say.

We're all doomed because Tebow the Great Runslinger is no longer here. And all Tebow fans are sane and reasonable.

SMH.
You're just completely incapable of having an honest discussion when it involves Tebow.

You spent the last two seasons hating on everything he did, including when he won this team it's first division title and playoff game since Jake Plummer was the QB.

Then after looking like an idiot over all those anti-Tebow rants you frame all that angst that made you look like a whiny b**** as a problem with "Tebow's fans", like anyone who really puts the Broncos first and foremost as a football fan gives a **** what some trailer park Florida pan handle meth cooker thinks about the Denver Broncos.

Now instead of actually discussing the merits of Tebow the FOOTBALL PLAYER you come into threads like this, avoid real football discussion like the black plague, and label other Bronco fans as "Tebow fans" while showing a complete unwillingness to take any rebuttals seriously by discounting everything with "WELL NOW WE GOTS MANNING!" bull****.

Newsflash: A lot of real die hard Broncos fans saw that Tebow has a unique level of very real FOOTBALL TALENT last season. All of those people are real happy to have Manning. None of them SHOULD be happy to have Caleb Hanie backing him up.

It was a dumb football move made by a front office that isn't secure in their own ability to manage this team's image. It has downgraded the quality of this roster in a very real way. Is it something that will ruin a season? Well that depends on how healthy Peyton Manning is. But its a BIG gamble for jack **** payoff.

So grow up and talk real football on a football forum. Stop trying to turn this into a "his fans are bullies!" little school yard sissy fight to hide the axe you've been grinding for the guy since the first day he became a Bronco.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:45 AM   #269
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You're just completely incapable of having an honest discussion when it involves Tebow.

You spent the last two seasons hating on everything he did, including when he won this team it's first division title and playoff game since Jake Plummer was the QB.

Then after looking like an idiot over all those anti-Tebow rants you frame all that angst that made you look like a whiny b**** as a problem with "Tebow's fans", like anyone who really puts the Broncos first and foremost as a football fan gives a **** what some trailer park Florida pan handle meth cooker thinks about the Denver Broncos.

Now instead of actually discussing the merits of Tebow the FOOTBALL PLAYER you come into threads like this, avoid real football discussion like the black plague, and label other Bronco fans as "Tebow fans" while showing a complete unwillingness to take any rebuttals seriously by discounting everything with "WELL NOW WE GOTS MANNING!" bull****.

Newsflash: A lot of real die hard Broncos fans saw that Tebow has a unique level of very real FOOTBALL TALENT last season. All of those people are real happy to have Manning. None of them SHOULD be happy to have Caleb Hanie backing him up.

It was a dumb football move made by a front office that isn't secure in their own ability to manage this team's image. It has downgraded the quality of this roster in a very real way. Is it something that will ruin a season? Well that depends on how healthy Peyton Manning is. But its a BIG gamble for jack **** payoff.

So grow up and talk real football on a football forum. Stop trying to turn this into a "his fans are bullies!" little school yard sissy fight to hide the axe you've been grinding for the guy since the first day he became a Bronco.
Oh please. PLEASE pull your head out of your ass.

Tebow's got a bright future. As a fullback. You've got a bright future as a Tebow biographer/sunshine blower.

I hope you enjoy your new fluffing career. Now wipe your chin.

Sad. You used to be one of my favorites here. But you have lost your goddamn (sorry, TEBOWdamn) mind.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:48 AM   #270
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Drek TKO's TEKO in the first round.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:49 AM   #271
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He's not saying we're doomed, butt munch. He's saying, with all other things being equal.....we're better off with Tebow as backup, than we are with Hanie as backup. That is all.

And he's right. You don't have to be a Tebow lover to figure that out. Love him or hate him....Tebow IS a better option than Hanie.
I disagree. Having Tebow as a backup means having to change the entire offense to fit your backup should Manning go down. You go from running a pass first-offense to a run-first offense where the quarterback isn't accurate enough to pass. That's a massive shift.

Yeah, Hanie's been terrible. I don't disagree. I just don't see that keeping Tebow was a legitimate option for the Broncos, in part because of what he is (and more importantly what he ISN'T) on the football field, in part because his fans are stark raving lunatics.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if Hanie goes into the season at #2.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:49 AM   #272
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Drek TKO's TEKO in the first round.
With his "but what if THIS happens? What if THAT happens?" garbage?

Yeah, sorry. Not so much.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:51 AM   #273
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Oh please. PLEASE pull your head out of your ass.

Tebow's got a bright future. As a fullback. You've got a bright future as a Tebow biographer/sunshine blower.

I hope you enjoy your new fluffing career. Now wipe your chin.

Sad. You used to be one of my favorites here. But you have lost your goddamn (sorry, TEBOWdamn) mind.
More of this same ****?

Do you ever even try to make legitimate arguments? Do you understand the point of debate? Point v. counter-point rational discussion of an issue? Or do you just view the entire world as your own personal audience to rant your obtuse views on everything at, and when it comes to Tim Tebow this forum is your megaphone of choice?

Sure as **** feels like the later.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:54 AM   #274
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With his "but what if THIS happens? What if THAT happens?" garbage?

Yeah, sorry. Not so much.
A thirteen year old getting his first reps in Lincoln-Douglas debate would wipe the floor with you in an argument. So Drek manhandling you doesn't come as a surprise.

(1) You are blatantly misrepresenting his arguments for having Tebow as the back-up over Hanie into something they completely aren't.

(2) You are incapable of making argumentation without trying to slap down Tebow supporters at the same time.

(3) Tim is gone, get over it and move on.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:57 AM   #275
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A thirteen year old getting his first reps in Lincoln-Douglas debate would wipe the floor with you in an argument. So Drek manhandling you doesn't come as a surprise.

(1) You are blatantly misrepresenting his arguments for having Tebow as the back-up over Hanie into something they completely aren't.

(2) You are incapable of making argumentation without trying to slap down Tebow supporters at the same time.

(3) Tim is gone, get over it and move on.
Read and repeat number 3 to yourself over and over again. Quietly.
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