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Old 05-19-2012, 11:44 AM   #51
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Wow Shanny! Look, I watch football. A lot of it. I know Rivers spreads the ball around. Never once did I say his deep ball was a product of Jackson. We all know that good qbs make average WRs better. See Manning....VJ is no scrub WR though. And like I said, he was making most of the highlight catches. Any WR would benefit from a good QB throwing them the ball. Thanks for pointing out the obvious though...
You made it sound like Rivers' deep ball wouldn't be a factor because Jackson wouldn't be around to catch those 'highlight passes', and said you weren't too concerned about it 'this time around'. I was just pointing out that it was a silly comment to make.

Rivers has thrown 65+ passes of over 20 yards each of the past three seasons, and in 2010 only three of them were caught by Jackson. The year before that, Gates and Floyd combined for almost twice as many.

Don't get all defensive if it's that obvious.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:55 AM   #52
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we ranked 6th in the league last yr on 3rd down.
This is a skewed statistic because a lot of teams did their damage on 1st and 2nd down. The better teams that we faced like the patriots, packers, even the game vs the bills our 3rd down defense was terrible
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:59 AM   #53
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If you count turnovers in the first series of each drive DET and NYJ had 8 3 and outs. CHI had 7. When you only get 12-14 drives a game and you end up punting 5+ staright times tough on a defense

NYJ game Denver punted 8 straight times.
CHI game 7 straight punts or turnover with an extra end of half
BUF 5 straight punts, TD then 6 staight drives ending in a punt of turnover
KC 5 straight punts or turnover then a FG and 5 more punts or turnovers
NE 5 straight punts or turnover

So when we were winning and losing the offense was going long periods of not producing points or even attempting FGs
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:24 PM   #54
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If you count turnovers in the first series of each drive DET and NYJ had 8 3 and outs. CHI had 7. When you only get 12-14 drives a game and you end up punting 5+ staright times tough on a defense

NYJ game Denver punted 8 straight times.
CHI game 7 straight punts or turnover with an extra end of half
BUF 5 straight punts, TD then 6 staight drives ending in a punt of turnover
KC 5 straight punts or turnover then a FG and 5 more punts or turnovers
NE 5 straight punts or turnover

So when we were winning and losing the offense was going long periods of not producing points or even attempting FGs
this is exactly why people who lived,breathed and slept football were at a loss to explain how Tebow could play so badly for 45-55 mins and then all of a sudden turn into a beast late in the game. we played some atrocious football under Tebow, we were horrible under Orton but Tebow won whereas Orton sucked and still lost.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:28 PM   #55
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this is exactly why people who lived,breathed and slept football were at a loss to explain how Tebow could play so badly for 45-55 mins and then all of a sudden turn into a beast late in the game. we played some atrocious football under Tebow, we were horrible under Orton but Tebow won whereas Orton sucked and still lost.
It was fools gold and took a lot of luck. Losing 4 of last 5 showed us what happens when you don't get some magical breaks along with some serious blowouts. If your D holds to 7 pts you should never, never, never lose especially against Kyle Orton.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:40 PM   #56
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It was fools gold and took a lot of luck. Losing 4 of last 5 showed us what happens when you don't get some magical breaks along with some serious blowouts. If your D holds to 7 pts you should never, never, never lose especially against Kyle Orton.
yep, this is why i keep using the term sustainable success when referring to why people weren't sold on Tebow's seemingly magic winning ways.
that wasn't a sustainable formula for success, every team needs luck to win here and there but it should be an extra asset not the definitive one.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:49 PM   #57
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The problem is that I don't really see us having a top ten offense this year either.

Are you crazy? This is gonna be the first season since perhaps '96-'98 where the Broncos O steps onto the field and says "Well, we're gonna get our 24-30 points....."


That's why I'm saying we need a top 10 defense to win a Super Bowl with Manning.

While I disagree (as does recent history) that you need a top 10 D to win it all....it damn sure doesn't hurt, and is one less thing to worry about.....here's to hoping our D can keep opponents consistently under 20 points per game....but it's very comforting knowing we have a QB that can put more than 13 points up per game...hell, he'll do that before halftime in most games.

This applies strictly to his first year as a Bronco and all the transitional issues I expect to come along with it. Assuming Manning ultimately returns to his previous form (something I'll believe when I see it), I would think the offense will be much better offensively in his second year and beyond.

I'm sure he won't start blasting the league in week one or two, but I'm guessing by mid-season we'll be one tough team to keep under 24-30 points...and I agree in year two and beyond we will see marked improvement


in bold
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:54 PM   #58
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Who exactly in the "know" likes Joe Mays as a starting MLB in the NFL? I'd like some actual references and links please.

Well, evidently the Broncos do...which is a good thing for Joe cuz that's who he plays for....

Oh and Manning's no huddle offense isn't exactly known for giving defenses long breathers. Not sure where you got that.

Doesn't matter...Manning puts points up on the scoreboard....I recall years ago someone posted the best way to stop him was keep the ball away from him, and it was strongly refuted as he won like 85% of the games where the Colts lost the TOP battle.
In bold...and we all know the real reason why you're trying to downplay the signing of Peyton Manning....just wanted you to know, we know.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:42 PM   #59
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we ranked 6th in the league last yr on 3rd down.
True, and taking it just a bit further, were 12th in 3d down attempts against.

But, as JDR said, 24th in scoring D.

Also 2nd giving up 40+ pass plays (13 of 'em, wow), 23rd 20+ pass plays, 14th TD's allowed, 28th in INT's, 19th in first downs allowed, 10th in sacks.

Ninth in 20+ yd rushes given up (14 of 'em, wow), 18th 40+ rushes (only one, no big deal), 21st fumbles, 12th APC.

A mixed bag certainly, and JDR was spot on looking at the Big Three that has to be improved - explosive plays, pts allowed. But maybe and hopefully they'll have it a little more together this year.

The turnovers created were just horrible, JDR didn't mention that here, but I'm sure that's an emphasis.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:04 PM   #60
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this is exactly why people who lived,breathed and slept football were at a loss to explain how Tebow could play so badly for 45-55 mins and then all of a sudden turn into a beast late in the game. we played some atrocious football under Tebow, we were horrible under Orton but Tebow won whereas Orton sucked and still lost.
All I am saying is that our offensive ineptitude is just as overstated as our defensive ineptitude is understated. The Denver Broncos defense will have to be VASTLY improved to be a top-10 unit this year. I don't see it happening. This thread is full of a lot of orange colored glasses, and that's cool, it's a Broncos board. But don't act like those of us who are like "uhhhh, did you see our defense last year, or were you too busy whining about Tebow?" don't have a damned good point.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:14 PM   #61
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The problem is that I don't really see us having a top ten offense this year either. That's why I'm saying we need a top 10 defense to win a Super Bowl with Manning.

This applies strictly to his first year as a Bronco and all the transitional issues I expect to come along with it. Assuming Manning ultimately returns to his previous from (something I'll believe when I see it), I would think the offense will be much better offensively in his second year and beyond.
Good points but I expect barring injuries that instead of fading down the stretch this coming year we will be gaining MO..

We finally have a qualified DC and a Defensive minded coach and needles to say a HOF QB while it will take some time form him to turn the O around to his way of doing things (perfection) by mid-season we should be about there..

NOW that said we have what looks to be a brutal schedule second hardest in the NFL according to last years standings.. We all know that does not mean it is cast in stone BUT good teams are usually good team year after year and unless they have catastrophic injuries they probably will be good this coming year..
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:15 PM   #62
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I am so optimistic about this guy and our defense improving. JDR is a real top notch DC, something we haven't had if ever on this team. The only major issue to me is the d-line. JDR knows defensive lineman and am sure he was involved with drafting Wolfe so I am hopeful about him.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:17 PM   #63
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Please, please... Don't leave after this year. This defense, above all else, needs stability at the coordinator position.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:20 PM   #64
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Who exactly in the "know" likes Joe Mays as a starting MLB in the NFL? I'd like some actual references and links please.

Oh and Manning's no huddle offense isn't exactly known for giving defenses long breathers. Not sure where you got that.
I heard somewhere that NO and another team maybe JAX were hot in pursuit of him, both teams that are known for their consistently good defenses.. sorry but it was something I heard maybe on NFLN or radio so links not going to happen..

I also have seen some surprising stats on his tackling ranking him in the top 5 IIRC. After reading those and seeing that JDR obviously had a hand in getting him resigned gave me pause for my thinking it was a dumb thing to do..

as for Manning making the D better that was OUR defense getting better because they should be on the field less.

Hope that clarifies my post..
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:29 PM   #65
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I don't mind the resigning of Mays, I just hate the price.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:33 PM   #66
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folks in the know liked Orton as the starter to give us the best chance to win,Goodman as the starter opposite Champ,our DT situation.

just because a coach doesn't have a major issue with it doesn't mean it's not a key concern. any coach worth his salt is gonna use what he has to the best of his abilities, he's never going to say we need better players at X or Y position.

we need better LB corp help at MLB. it's not a question, you can look at the film since Wilson got hurt and see that it's been a huge hole and a exploited one by opposing offenses. they've fixed CB, working on S but MLB and DT are still holes on the D and while i love this coaching staff and think Elway is doing a great job. but that is the next key thing that needs to be fixed.
Got to remember that we NOW have a professional coaching staff as well as Elway at the helm.. I beleive that he has an eye for talent, listens to and respects his coaching staff.. Unlike mikey and most likely Josh.

no more mickey mouse dafts or signing expensive FAs to haul their asses out of the fire for another season, like we have seen the past decade or more..

as to your comments about the LB corps sure we can upgrade there as we can at every spot on the team save perhaps Manning and Champ*..

But we have to have priorities good LB's become great LBs with a great DL in front of them..the LB corps do not make great DL's. We seem to have upgraded that and I suspect that because of that the LB's all of them will be just that much better..

IMO replacing DJ with a better WIL will upgrade the team more than replacing Mays. Since we have no idea what we have in Irving and the otehr LB I'm going to let the coaching staff prioritize what they feel they need first..
* some will say that Doom and Miller should be on this list but they are flawed as well they are not 3 down players YET.. Nor has Clady played like his old self..
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:44 PM   #67
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folks in the know also liked Cutlet as the starter to give us the best chance to win,
Fixed that for you..
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:48 PM   #68
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Less than a third of Rivers' completions over 20 yards were to Jackson. He had 69 total, with Jackson catching 21, followed by Floyd with 16, Brown with nine and Gates with eight.

His deep ball isn't some product of a receiver, and if anything Jackson was the one benefiting in that relationship.
good catch I was about to state the same thing..

Rivers is a damned fine QB that has had out number since cutlet was in town.. Had t not been for Houcklis blown call in that first SAN game well I doubt we would have beaten that team at all..

I do not like the kid, but as a football QB he is better than anyone since John we have had till this year..
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:52 PM   #69
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Wow Shanny! Look, I watch football. A lot of it. I know Rivers spreads the ball around. Never once did I say his deep ball was a product of Jackson. We all know that good qbs make average WRs better. See Manning....VJ is no scrub WR though. And like I said, he was making most of the highlight catches. Any WR would benefit from a good QB throwing them the ball. Thanks for pointing out the obvious though...
sure not the way I read it also..

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When the show was doing his ranking, they were talking about how many +20 yd passes he threw. We all know who was on the receiving end of all those highlight passes.... Not too worried about Phyllis and his deep game this time around.....
Sure sounded like because VJ was gone he would not on the receiving end of all those highlight passes anymore and therefore Not too worried about Phyllis and his deep game this time around.

Now just where did we misinterpret your post?
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:57 PM   #70
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Teams with good offenses can use a more aggressive style defense and take chances knowing or feeling their offense can get the points back if they give up a big play here and there. We'll see if the Broncos plan to do that or not, at least at times.

The Bronco defense over the last few years it seems has not been good at causing turnovers, pass rush has been spotty, giving up huge runs, and the inability to cover TE's or RB's in the passing game. Getting off the field on 3rd downs is another area of improvement, though as bad as some defenses the Broncos have had in recent years, teams didn't seem to get into many 3rd down situations since could get such large chunks of yards on 1st and 2nd down.

If the Broncos want to be a serious Super Bowl contender, then a top 10 defense is needed and really, has to happen. Manning is 36, coming off not playing a season and having multiple surgeries on his neck. Elway at 36 needed a complete team to win a Super Bowl. I would expect the same for Manning.
Late in the year many teams were running on 3rd and long knowing that Miller was going to pass rush and in most of those times the RB was going past him while he was trying to get to the QB..

I suspect that he will be coached up this year by JDR who IIRC was a hell of a LB in his day..

that in itself will cut a some of the long running plays down..
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:03 PM   #71
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I don't mind the resigning of Mays, I just hate the price.
From what I heard it was the going price if we did not give it JAX or NO would have..
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:30 PM   #72
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I was disappointed that he didn't say "We're going to have an attacking style defense". You know, because I have never heard that before.
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:41 PM   #73
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From what I heard it was the going price if we did not give it JAX or NO would have..
Yeah, and if that's true then I wish they had let him walk. I realize he's the most experienced middle linebacker they've got, but they're also really hoping that Irving pans out and even if he doesn't they're going to need to upgrade the position eventually. I would have preferred the money be spent on another defensive tackle or something.
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Old 05-19-2012, 05:31 PM   #74
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Yeah, and if that's true then I wish they had let him walk. I realize he's the most experienced middle linebacker they've got, but they're also really hoping that Irving pans out and even if he doesn't they're going to need to upgrade the position eventually. I would have preferred the money be spent on another defensive tackle or something.
Soliai would have been nice. I don't think either Bannan, or Warren can get the job done at NT...and that's assuming Warren shows up, and doesn't get hurt at the 1st practice.

Raiders don't have a backup MLB. Once McClain goes in the pokey, it's curtains for the Defense.
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Old 05-19-2012, 05:34 PM   #75
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McClain isn't going to be missing any time because of his sentence, don't kid yourself. Hopefully he's suspended for at least 4-6 games, though.
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