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Old 04-24-2012, 10:44 PM   #26
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Maybe he just doesn't watch film? That would explain a lot.
he certainly acted like it a good portion of the time last season.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:14 AM   #27
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:37 AM   #28
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No problem with Joe Mays. The guy has sand in his pants and will run through you on tackles. Exactly what you want in the middle. I hope he can continue to get better because it is apparent that he cares about football, playing the game the right way. Yes, he can wrap up better and doesn't always need to make the highlight lick. Those are nice but get the opposing team on the ground. Coaches feel he can and will improve which is why they have brought him back.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:25 AM   #29
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Does anyone actually chart games where they list broken tackles?

Or is this idea of Joe Mays constantly whiffing and missing just some of the usual crap that floats around this board?

Don't see Joe Mays on this list or high missed tackles from 2010.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/sta...n-tackles-2010

I don't track every game but rewatch and track about half of the games last year on what's going on the front 7/OL/RBs since there's limitations on what's actually shown (can't see what deep drops by the safety for example). It's one of the reasons why I was so low on Beadles even in the early stage of the season last year and high on Chris Harris' tackling ability.

And I can say that Joe Mays isn't a bad tackler or a guy that misses a high percentage of tackles. He's not a sideline to sideline backer and isn't a coverage guy but the defense doesn't ask that from him.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:46 AM   #30
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He makes most of the tackles right at him, but he just doesn't have much range from what I've seen.
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:41 AM   #31
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http://www.denverbroncos.com/multime...0-7c12f7acea16

Joe Mays talks about the fans negative evaluation of his play (4:00-7:40).

Thought this was relevant considering many peoples views of him on this board. It would seem he has taken notice of what you're saying.
He just doesn't have the speed to play MLB. It's why so many teams ran toss and sweep plays..at least IMO. We also got torched by teams with good TEs going over the middle because he sucks in coverage as well. He would make an ok back up and good special teams guy and that's it. He should not be starting or were in for another up and down year on D. Play decent against teams with mediocre offense and bad against teams like the Pats. I'm praying Irving steps up big!
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:02 AM   #32
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He just doesn't have the speed to play MLB. It's why so many teams ran toss and sweep plays..at least IMO. We also got torched by teams with good TEs going over the middle because he sucks in coverage as well. He would make an ok back up and good special teams guy and that's it. He should not be starting or were in for another up and down year on D. Play decent against teams with mediocre offense and bad against teams like the Pats. I'm praying Irving steps up big!
I'm not sure where you get this or are you just repeating misinformation.

Joes Mays simply did not have consistent deeper coverage responsibility (like say the eagle role with Al Wilson) and was substituted regularly on obvious passing downs, hence why he played just around 600 snaps.

Again, his coverage/side line to side line range isn't in question here, it's his run stopping ability in how he's missed on a lot of tackles when that's simply not the case from what I've seen or what the stats show.

And we didn't get torched by TEs either. Everyone points to the NE games when their TEs carved up most defenses anyway. In reality Denver was middle of the pack against TEs, giving up on average 41 yards a game to TEs.

Last edited by fontaine; 04-25-2012 at 07:06 AM..
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:41 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
Does anyone actually chart games where they list broken tackles?

Or is this idea of Joe Mays constantly whiffing and missing just some of the usual crap that floats around this board?

Don't see Joe Mays on this list or high missed tackles from 2010.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/sta...n-tackles-2010

I don't track every game but rewatch and track about half of the games last year on what's going on the front 7/OL/RBs since there's limitations on what's actually shown (can't see what deep drops by the safety for example). It's one of the reasons why I was so low on Beadles even in the early stage of the season last year and high on Chris Harris' tackling ability.

And I can say that Joe Mays isn't a bad tackler or a guy that misses a high percentage of tackles. He's not a sideline to sideline backer and isn't a coverage guy but the defense doesn't ask that from him.
I wouldn't neccessarily say he "whiffs" on a lot of tackles but he definitely misses a lot of gap assignments by being a bit too overagressive which leads to him running past the ball carrier often...most of the tackles he made were in the interior gaps where he made a quick read and ran straight through the RB...

conversely, teams started to run a lot of counters and screens to combat this....the same could be said for Miller too...

I think both of these guys will get better in their reads and will temper back a little bit of the early go get'em reads this year
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:53 AM   #34
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Would anyone advocate Hightower if he was there @25?
I see Mays being better as a 3-4 ILB...
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:54 AM   #35
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Thanks for the post. I really enjoyed that press conference. While I was as irritated as many were with Joe last year and some of his over committed whiffs, I always dug his passion. After seeing this I really like the guy and am confident he can get a lot better. More importantly, I can understand a bit more why the team made the financial commitment that they did. They seem to have been investing in the positive, jovial team oriented character as much as in his performance. I was always excited that he was back but just annoyed at the amount we paid him. This lightened the blow a bit. Thanks again.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:10 AM   #36
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Thanks for the post. I really enjoyed that press conference. While I was as irritated as many were with Joe last year and some of his over committed whiffs, I always dug his passion. After seeing this I really like the guy and am confident he can get a lot better. More importantly, I can understand a bit more why the team made the financial commitment that they did. They seem to have been investing in the positive, jovial team oriented character as much as in his performance. I was always excited that he was back but just annoyed at the amount we paid him. This lightened the blow a bit. Thanks again.
Well said.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:15 AM   #37
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Would anyone advocate Hightower if he was there @25?
I see Mays being better as a 3-4 ILB...
To me, an ILB is only worth a 1st in todays pass happy NFL if he can stay on the field for all three downs. That's not Hightower. Kuechly is the only ILB worth a 1st in this class, IMHO. There are a couple of other guys with a good all around game, Kendricks and Spence, but they are undersized for ILB and may be a better fit at OLB.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:20 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Bmore Manning View Post
Would anyone advocate Hightower if he was there @25?
I see Mays being better as a 3-4 ILB...
I think passing on him would be a mistake honestly. The Ravens are really looking at him, even to the point of trading up. They seem to know a thing or two about the position.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:25 AM   #39
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Thanks for the post. I really enjoyed that press conference. While I was as irritated as many were with Joe last year and some of his over committed whiffs, I always dug his passion. After seeing this I really like the guy and am confident he can get a lot better. More importantly, I can understand a bit more why the team made the financial commitment that they did. They seem to have been investing in the positive, jovial team oriented character as much as in his performance. I was always excited that he was back but just annoyed at the amount we paid him. This lightened the blow a bit. Thanks again.
Good point. This is probably a lot better phrasing than simply "missing tackles". He missed a few tackles here and there, but over-committed and played out of position a lot.

Here's to hoping he can fill whatever role it is EFX have for him.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:28 AM   #40
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So he recognizes he missed tackles; good start. What did he say about poor recognition, over pursuit, bad angles, and missing his zone in pass coverage?
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:39 AM   #41
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Good point. This is probably a lot better phrasing than simply "missing tackles". He missed a few tackles here and there, but over-committed and played out of position a lot.

Here's to hoping he can fill whatever role it is EFX have for him.
Exactly...it's all something that can be fixed. I've liked him because if he does make the right decision, he blows whatever up.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:00 AM   #42
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i don't have an issue with Mays as a role player and developmental type player. i have an issue with having piss poor DT play, using Mays as a starter and expecting him to be able to make enough plays to not hurt the defense.

i probably wouldn't have paid him 4 mil, 2.5-3.4 yeah. but if you put high quality DT's in front of him so he's not taking on blockers and having to make plays on the edge or not make straight line plays then he'll be fine.

somehow i just don't see the Broncos doing so at the moment. we'll likely have Warren and Vickerson as the starters, Bannan and a lower round developmental DT as the back ups and then you have issues with Mays production. if you keep him clean with the DT's he'll do fine. but i still think he can be upgraded.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:08 AM   #43
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To me, an ILB is only worth a 1st in todays pass happy NFL if he can stay on the field for all three downs. That's not Hightower. Kuechly is the only ILB worth a 1st in this class, IMHO. There are a couple of other guys with a good all around game, Kendricks and Spence, but they are undersized for ILB and may be a better fit at OLB.
I think he is much better in coverage than he is given credit for. He is better in coverage than Mays. If they don't take a MLB and Irving and Mays struggle, that beast Manti Teo should be available next year.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:13 AM   #44
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I think he is much better in coverage than he is given credit for. He is better in coverage than Mays. If they don't take a MLB and Irving and Mays struggle, that beast Manti Teo should be available next year.
I thought they moved Hightower to DE on passing downs. There are ways of getting 3 downs out of Hightower.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:17 AM   #45
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Exactly...it's all something that can be fixed. I've liked him because if he does make the right decision, he blows whatever up.
There's a difference between making a decision based on what you see in front of you, and just going all-in on a guess. Mays is the latter.

When he blows up a play, he's simply guessed right. But it happens rarely.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:18 AM   #46
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I thought they moved Hightower to DE on passing downs. There are ways of getting 3 downs out of Hightower.
I think your right, I think they did bring him off the Edge at times. I like Hightower a lot, and if the rest of the top DTs and CBs are gone, I would not be against taking him. The issue would be is that ideal given Irving's potential and Mays salary. Maybe Irving could play outside or just provide depth. I know Hightower is a leader, you need that from your MLB.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:21 AM   #47
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I'm not sure where you get this or are you just repeating misinformation.

Joes Mays simply did not have consistent deeper coverage responsibility (like say the eagle role with Al Wilson) and was substituted regularly on obvious passing downs, hence why he played just around 600 snaps.

Again, his coverage/side line to side line range isn't in question here, it's his run stopping ability in how he's missed on a lot of tackles when that's simply not the case from what I've seen or what the stats show.

And we didn't get torched by TEs either. Everyone points to the NE games when their TEs carved up most defenses anyway. In reality Denver was middle of the pack against TEs, giving up on average 41 yards a game to TEs.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:28 AM   #48
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I thought they moved Hightower to DE on passing downs. There are ways of getting 3 downs out of Hightower.
they did, that's why some project him as more of a 3-4 OLB than 4-3 MLB or SLB. i think he can play both and give you a dynamic rush/MLB combo.
if you were to team he and Von up it would definitely make the LB corps a lot stronger and certainly more interesting. but with Mays being signed to a deal i would imagine they'll go for a pure OLB over a MLB.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:39 AM   #49
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I'm not sure where you get this or are you just repeating misinformation.

Joes Mays simply did not have consistent deeper coverage responsibility (like say the eagle role with Al Wilson) and was substituted regularly on obvious passing downs, hence why he played just around 600 snaps.

Again, his coverage/side line to side line range isn't in question here, it's his run stopping ability in how he's missed on a lot of tackles when that's simply not the case from what I've seen or what the stats show.

And we didn't get torched by TEs either. Everyone points to the NE games when their TEs carved up most defenses anyway. In reality Denver was middle of the pack against TEs, giving up on average 41 yards a game to TEs.
Watch the playoff game against the Pats. Mays (and DJ as well)is exposed all the time. He consistently sits way too wide and way too shallow in the zone opening up a huge seam in the center of the defense. All night long my friend who coaches football, but never watches the Broncos was asking "who's this guy (pointing to Mays)" and saying how out of position he was.

Obvious passing downs are one thing. There are a lot of teams that throw the ball on early (not obvious passing) downs, and Mays is a liability in that.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:39 AM   #50
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they did, that's why some project him as more of a 3-4 OLB than 4-3 MLB or SLB. i think he can play both and give you a dynamic rush/MLB combo.
if you were to team he and Von up it would definitely make the LB corps a lot stronger and certainly more interesting. but with Mays being signed to a deal i would imagine they'll go for a pure OLB over a MLB.
Hightower is diverse like Miller, you said it, that would be a dynamic duo. Imagine him on the strong side edge in the 5-2 43 over
Front with Miller coming behind him and Ayers at UT on third downs..
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