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Old 03-25-2012, 08:51 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by WhoIsJohnGalt View Post
thank you. that's what i'm saying. we need MORE pieces for the jigsaw puzzle before the whole thing comes together. if Manning had 10 more years, then no problem... we can take our time getting them on the cheap as free agents or via the draft. but he doesn't have 10 more years, so our FO needs to be more urgent and needs to be really good to get those needs met sooner rather than later.

i honestly don't care if somebody thinks Manning makes us 20% better or 30% better. it's the silly idea that Manning all by himself makes us 100% better and automatic SB contenders. i've seen some people claim that we are now the odds-on favorite to win the SB. that's just not so.
Vegas doesn't agree with you at all and no one is claiming we are a LOCK to win the SB. They said our odds are better. If you don't think our O or team is improved with Manning over Tebow please tell me so. That way I can just add you to my iggy list.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:53 PM   #102
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Broncos records of late:

2011: 8-8
2010: 4-12
2009: 8-8
2008: 8-8
2007: 7-9
2006: 9-7

not alot to be optimistic about in recent years.

also, as new Broncos fans, look up how many of these years featured 0-3 slides to end the regular season.
Ok, I did. I see your point.

But I don't think you should damn the fate of 2012 based on a head honcho core that wasn't yet in place.
Elway is only on year 2
Fox - year 2
Del Rio - year 1. (I don't know what the chatter was, but I think Del Rio was a damn good grab)
Manning - year 1
That's a lot of new chiefs, proven chiefs. And last year, even with a wild card win, the 2011 Broncos were not Elway and Fox's vision.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the coach meetings. I have a feeling these guys are as fired up as I am.

Come on bro, relax and have some fun. Throw back your EZ chair and have a cocktail.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:38 PM   #103
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These new posters aren't nearly jaded enough. Work on that please.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:41 PM   #104
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100% true. It actually was the point where 3rd and short was almost a guaranteed pass play. It was sad! Yet the Colts were still 10+ wins

And this year I see a running game behind him that I haven't hoped for much since the Colts picked up Tony Ugoh (which was a bust). There's a damn good reason to be excited. Why are so few Broncos fans afraid to drink the punch?
Tebow was the main reason the run game was so prolific last year. Without him, it is categorically mediocre.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:43 PM   #105
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Ok, I did. I see your point.

But I don't think you should damn the fate of 2012 based on a head honcho core that wasn't yet in place.
Elway is only on year 2
Fox - year 2
Del Rio - year 1. (I don't know what the chatter was, but I think Del Rio was a damn good grab)
Manning - year 1
That's a lot of new chiefs, proven chiefs. And last year, even with a wild card win, the 2011 Broncos were not Elway and Fox's vision.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the coach meetings. I have a feeling these guys are as fired up as I am.

Come on bro, relax and have some fun. Throw back your EZ chair and have a cocktail.
Nothing new. We change QB's and coaches all the time, and nothing ever really changes. You'll learn.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:00 PM   #106
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Vegas doesn't agree with you at all and no one is claiming we are a LOCK to win the SB. They said our odds are better. If you don't think our O or team is improved with Manning over Tebow please tell me so. That way I can just add you to my iggy list.
Hey, it always comes back to this - if you're not gonna win the SB with a retread from outside, why not go all in developing the homegrown guy you have already? The situation was not so dire with Tebow like the other teams that brought in retreads. If the homegrown guy doesn't work out, then you draft a guy.

I'm not seeing the glass half-full argument with Manning, I'm seeing a glass half-empty. With Tebow, it was glass half-full.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:12 PM   #107
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Hey, it always comes back to this - if you're not gonna win the SB with a retread from outside, why not go all in developing the homegrown guy you have already? The situation was not so dire with Tebow like the other teams that brought in retreads. If the homegrown guy doesn't work out, then you draft a guy.

I'm not seeing the glass half-full argument with Manning, I'm seeing a glass half-empty. With Tebow, it was glass half-full.
We have a higher chance of winning the SB in the next three years with Manning then we ever will with Tebow. Manning is flat out better then Tebow. Its not even debatable.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:33 PM   #108
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We have a higher chance of winning the SB in the next three years with Manning then we ever will with Tebow. Manning is flat out better then Tebow. Its not even debatable.
It's fine with me if you say so. I say it would have been better to develop Tebow instead of going with this "higher chance" guy that is maybe good for a few years. I don't like bringing in a retread. So we'll see what happens.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:37 PM   #109
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We have a higher chance of winning the SB in the next three years with Manning then we ever will with Tebow. Manning is flat out better then Tebow. Its not even debatable.
How many times do you think Peyton Manning's seen that sign in your avatar?

See, it is debatable.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:57 PM   #110
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Tebow was the main reason the run game was so prolific last year. Without him, it is categorically mediocre.
Tebow is a huge part of the running game success last season, esp for mcgahee breaking 1000. But have you seen Peyton working with a 31st/32nd rated rushing offense? (see mannings last 3 seasons). I truly think a stronger pass game will also have a positive effect on Denvers rushing game. Hope it goes smoothly
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:00 PM   #111
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How many times do you think Peyton Manning's seen that sign in your avatar?

See, it is debatable.
Oh the left one? A plenty
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:35 AM   #112
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It's fine with me if you say so. I say it would have been better to develop Tebow instead of going with this "higher chance" guy that is maybe good for a few years. I don't like bringing in a retread. So we'll see what happens.
You seem to think that Tebow is a lock to develop when it is far from it. And please stop calling Manning a retread. He is the biggest NFL FA in god knows how long if ever. He is far from some has been scrub we found off the street.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:08 AM   #113
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Oh the left one? A plenty
Yeah not sure 4 for 11 is all that impressive. Hopefully that was just the Colts' idea of clutch and not Manning's.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:27 AM   #114
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I say it would have been better to develop Tebow...
That's the thing, though. EFX didn't think he was every going to "develop", and they're far from alone in that opinion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/sp...l?ref=timtebow
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:39 AM   #115
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That's the thing, though. EFX didn't think he was every going to "develop", and they're far from alone in that opinion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/sp...l?ref=timtebow
More analysis from the Tebow throwz lotz of skreenz people.

Tom Brady's QB guy thinks he can develop. Good enough for me.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:08 AM   #116
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Great take. However, there is really a call for immediate success here. Bowlen has to pony up a guaranteed $40M+ at the end of the season.
Exactly. People keep touting only $18M guaranteed......but if he's on our roster 12 months from now....it's really a total of $58M guaranteed.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:14 AM   #117
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Exactly. People keep touting only $18M guaranteed......but if he's on our roster 12 months from now....it's really a total of $58M guaranteed.
And that means hes performed at a high level for the Broncos. Oh the ****ing humanity!!!
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:15 AM   #118
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Exactly. People keep touting only $18M guaranteed......but if he's on our roster 12 months from now....it's really a total of $58M guaranteed.
I'm not sure I understand why this would concern you. If he plays well this season and stays healthy they'll keep him. Otherwise they'll have a decision to make. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

^ DB4life beat me to it...
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:23 AM   #119
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I'm not sure I understand why this would concern you. If he plays well this season and stays healthy they'll keep him. Otherwise they'll have a decision to make. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

^ DB4life beat me to it...
Yes, I know. My only point was that when people keep cheering that this was soooooooo team friendly, b/c it's ONLY $18M guaranteed.....that is technically true NOW....just a bit misleading.

That is all. IF he plays like the Manning of old, then of course.....we make out not matter what happens.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:25 AM   #120
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Reality is, no one player gives you a Superbowl victory. Having Manning guarantees you nothing, and I am sure he will say something virtually the same every week (he always has).. What you will get is a solid run offense, with a very realistic shot at winning the division.

The goal is to make the playoffs. The 2nd goal is to be hot going into the playoffs. If people just assume that picking up Peyton means you better start clearing space on the shelf for the Lombardis, there's a fair chance you will be disappointment. Every year is a struggle and only 1 team can win.

But if you're outlook is just that you want to Broncos play well, make the playoffs, and have a SHOT at the Lombardi, then strap the F in. Looks to be a good year.

Christ, enjoy it already. If you don't enjoy this, I can't imagine what you will ever enjoy as a fan.
Of course. But the underlying point is that by signing Manning to a $96M contract....we don't just want to make the playoffs. We were a playoff team already if I recall correctly.....

The ultimate goal MUST be to win at least one Superbowl with this guy....or else it WILL be a failure.

You can't walk away 5 years from now....with no Lombardi trophies....and say, "Well, at least Manning made us a playoff team!!"
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:30 AM   #121
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I'm not sure I understand why this would concern you. If he plays well this season and stays healthy they'll keep him. Otherwise they'll have a decision to make. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

^ DB4life beat me to it...
You act like there's any wiggle room in there. The only way they can walk away after a year is in the case of complete catastrophe... like either top-5 draft pick bad, or PM can't play anymore bad.

The idea that if we finish 9-7 and out of the playoffs this year, they're going to cut Manning and roll with Caleb Hanie in 2013 is comical.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:39 AM   #122
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Tebow's effect on the running game was simply that his ability to fake to Willis and take the rock off the left tackle's outside shoulder was effective until defenses put a safety in the slot, and even then McCoy pulled out essetinally the old triple option with Royal. However, in the end, it didn't fool anyone as both Pitt and NE out gained Den on the ground, and unfortuantely, Tebow had not learned how to read with corner got safety help in Cover one, so ... NE murdered us.

But, hey, let's not discusse the manning offense, let's make this ANOTHER TEBOW THREAD, AYE JOHN GAULT
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:47 AM   #123
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Tebow's effect on the running game...
Not to mention the fact that whatever we lose from Tebow we probably gain from no longer having 8-9 guys in the box every play.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:47 AM   #124
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Tebow is a huge part of the running game success last season, esp for mcgahee breaking 1000. But have you seen Peyton working with a 31st/32nd rated rushing offense? (see mannings last 3 seasons). I truly think a stronger pass game will also have a positive effect on Denvers rushing game. Hope it goes smoothly
You do realize that when Tebow wasn't in the game, 31st/32nd is about the neighborhood we were talking.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:48 AM   #125
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Tebow's effect on the running game was simply that his ability to fake to Willis and take the rock off the left tackle's outside shoulder was effective until defenses put a safety in the slot, and even then McCoy pulled out essetinally the old triple option with Royal. However, in the end, it didn't fool anyone as both Pitt and NE out gained Den on the ground, and unfortuantely, Tebow had not learned how to read with corner got safety help in Cover one, so ... NE murdered us.

But, hey, let's not discusse the manning offense, let's make this ANOTHER TEBOW THREAD, AYE JOHN GAULT
Great logic. Teams had to sell out to stop the Tebow run threat. Therefore Peyton Manning will have a great rushing attack.
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