The Manning offense - Parts 1-6

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by WhoIsJohnGalt

signing Manning doesn't do a damned thing to address the multiple problems on defense.

Not directly. But the Manning offense will score more and get more first downs. And if you understand football even a little bit you'll understand how that might help the defense.

[Broncolt]

Originally Posted by ZONA

There's no doubt Manning will put his stamp on the offense but I'll bet anything you won't see the Broncos passing the ball nearly as much as the Colts offense did. Elway knows all to well how important a solid running game is and I think he's convinced Manning that is going to be his best friend as he enters the home run stretch of his career.

This. Broncos offense wont be as pass-heavy as Colts offense was... The reason the Colts pass game was sooo huge in Indy is because of the LACK of running game/success...and hopefully the solid run game in denver will make the offense even tougher to beat.

[Broncolt]

Originally Posted by jerseyguy4

Running backs came and went. Wayne and
We sit here discussing, but I almost guarantee that process has already begun. Manning was previously working out with old friends at Duke. But I would bet that has already changed, that he's reached out to the Broncos WR group, and that they are already throwing passes together.

Ill put my life savings on it that this is exactly whats happening. Peyton is definitely NOT sitting around waiting, he is definitely going straight to work studying game tapes of the receivers, even getting workouts/sessions done with them. Peyton's gameplay style heavily relies on work ethic, timing, and chemistry/cohesiveness with the team.

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by TonyR

Not directly. But the Manning offense will score more and get more first downs. And if you understand football even a little bit you'll understand how that might help the defense.

Well, we'll see if Manning from TWO years ago (heh-heh) is the same Manning come opening day, with the Denver team. Of course, you know the 2010 Colts went one and done in the playoffs, scoring 16 points at home against the Jets, and Manning couldn't come from behind to win in the 4th quarter at home. Manning did put up 6 points in the 4th quarter, though, and did have the lead, so that's something to hang his hat on.

Manning was 6-for-10 for 75 yds, 0 TD's in that 4th quarter, in his last playoff game, at home.

[extralife]

how damning. he must not be good enough to play QB for us.

in Tim Tebow's last playoff game he was 9-26 and we scored 10 points against the worst defense in the NFL.

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by extralife

how damning. he must not be good enough to play QB for us.

in Tim Tebow's last playoff game he was 9-26 and we scored 10 points against the worst defense in the NFL.

The Pats defense that won the AFC Title, and held Baltimore to 20 points in the AFCCG and the Giants to 21 in the Super Bowl.

Hey, if you want to join on the Manning bandwagon that's fine with me. I'm not on board yet, not until he actually does something for the Broncos to the tune of an AFC Title.

[DENVERDUI55]

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

Yeah, Al went to TN and knew Manning's theatrics were mostly nonsense.
He would shift the D at the last minute so there would be no time for PM to change the play again.

We really need another Al.

and Manning would still bend Denver over for 40 plus pts.

[DENVERDUI55]

Originally Posted by WhoIsJohnGalt

yours is the classic response i'd expect on the OM. setup a strawman and refute it. ignore the actual post.

let's try again. forget Tebow for a moment.

was the 2010 team a playoff caliber team?
was the 2011 team a playoff caliber team with Orton?

if you answered "yes" to either of those questions, this conversation is over and ends with me facepalming at you.

is the 2012 team essentially the same team that Orton played with, only with Manning in his place?

if you answered "no" to this question, this conversation is over and ends with me facepalming at you.

if you get to this point, then please explain to me how Manning and Manning alone suddenly elevates a really bad team (4-12 and then 1-4) all the way to SB contender status. if your answer is "everybody will play better, because you know, it's Peyton Manning and he's AWESOME and he releases the ball in 200 microseconds", then again, this conversation is over and you're a dumbass.

if you think you can explain how Manning by himself makes an OL that struggled with pass blocking last year (both with and without Tebow) and with young, inexperienced receivers (of which one has left for Sandy Eggo) that have never worked with Manning before, then please do.

also, how do we fill the holes on the defense? through the draft? we have deficiencies at DT (2 of them) and LB (1 or 2 of them depending how you feel about DJ Williams) and CB.

somehow, this FO needs to fill 3 or 4 holes this year with guys who we can rely on for the next 2-3 years. that's assuming we won't be competing for a SB in 2012. then next year, they have to do the same... fill 3 or 4 more holes so that come 2013, we are really a SB contender.

can you show me any offseason where we drafted 3 or 4 guys who became solid, established starters in their 1st or 2nd seasons in the league?

Man these Teboners are dense. You are about to get schooled by Med. There isn't one person on the board that is at his level of understanding the game.

[Broncolt]

Originally Posted by WhoIsJohnGalt

yours is the classic response i'd expect on the OM. setup a strawman and refute it. ignore the actual post.

let's try again. forget Tebow for a moment.

was the 2010 team a playoff caliber team?
was the 2011 team a playoff caliber team with Orton?

if you answered "yes" to either of those questions, this conversation is over and ends with me facepalming at you.

is the 2012 team essentially the same team that Orton played with, only with Manning in his place?

if you answered "no" to this question, this conversation is over and ends with me facepalming at you.

if you get to this point, then please explain to me how Manning and Manning alone suddenly elevates a really bad team (4-12 and then 1-4) all the way to SB contender status. if your answer is "everybody will play better, because you know, it's Peyton Manning and he's AWESOME and he releases the ball in 200 microseconds", then again, this conversation is over and you're a dumbass.

if you think you can explain how Manning by himself makes an OL that struggled with pass blocking last year (both with and without Tebow) and with young, inexperienced receivers (of which one has left for Sandy Eggo) that have never worked with Manning before, then please do.

also, how do we fill the holes on the defense? through the draft? we have deficiencies at DT (2 of them) and LB (1 or 2 of them depending how you feel about DJ Williams) and CB.

somehow, this FO needs to fill 3 or 4 holes this year with guys who we can rely on for the next 2-3 years. that's assuming we won't be competing for a SB in 2012. then next year, they have to do the same... fill 3 or 4 more holes so that come 2013, we are really a SB contender.

can you show me any offseason where we drafted 3 or 4 guys who became solid, established starters in their 1st or 2nd seasons in the league?

put peyton in the 2011 colts season and colts would have won atleast 10 close games they had. (alot of games were very close losses in the 4th). your argument is expected, but boy i cannot wait till you eat your crow next season. You have no idea what peytons capable of doing. Im not saying superbowl for the next 5 years, but expect to see a HUGE improvement in both DT and decker, the rest of the offense, and YES (refuting wat u said before) the defense too. If the offense puts more points up, the other team simply has to play catch up, with their gameplan predictable, it makes it easier on the defense esp with passrushing. This is the way its been in Indy, with a ****tier defense than the one broncos have right now. Also, running game is for sure going to be loads better, as long as the OL is solid, because defenses will have to respect the passing game.

In indy, the colts offense was SO predictable, especially the last couple of seasons with NO running game to help. teams knew we were going to throw on practically every down, and played the pass ALL the time and peyton still was successful (in regular season atleast)...opens up running game. Your gonna see a diff broncos team next year..you watch

[Broncolt]

Originally Posted by Cito Pelon

Well, we'll see if Manning from TWO years ago (heh-heh) is the same Manning come opening day, with the Denver team. Of course, you know the 2010 Colts went one and done in the playoffs, scoring 16 points at home against the Jets, and Manning couldn't come from behind to win in the 4th quarter at home. Manning did put up 6 points in the 4th quarter, though, and did have the lead, so that's something to hang his hat on.

Manning was 6-for-10 for 75 yds, 0 TD's in that 4th quarter, in his last playoff game, at home.

That game was single-handedly lost by Jim Caldwell.

Edit: Terrible game for Peyton to end his career as a Colt, atleast for colt fans lol

[Broncolt]

Originally Posted by Cito Pelon

The Pats defense that won the AFC Title, and held Baltimore to 20 points in the AFCCG and the Giants to 21 in the Super Bowl.

Hey, if you want to join on the Manning bandwagon that's fine with me. I'm not on board yet, not until he actually does something for the Broncos to the tune of an AFC Title.

, that patriots defense didnt do crap to win against bmore, bmore lost that game themselves...pats defense sucked this year, tebow did awful. both times...no need to jump on the manning bandwagon just yet, well patiently wait for u when the season comes

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55

Man these Teboners are dense. You are about to get schooled by Med. There isn't one person on the board that is at his level of understanding the game.

Riiiight. Med has hits and misses just like all the rest of us.

[DENVERDUI55]

Originally Posted by Cito Pelon

Riiiight. Med has hits and misses just like all the rest of us.

I'm talking X's and O's.

[Cito Pelon]

Originally Posted by Broncolt

put peyton in the 2011 colts season and colts would have won atleast 10 close games they had. (alot of games were very close losses in the 4th). your argument is expected, but boy i cannot wait till you eat your crow next season. You have no idea what peytons capable of doing. Im not saying superbowl for the next 5 years, but expect to see a HUGE improvement in both DT and decker, the rest of the offense, and YES (refuting wat u said before) the defense too. If the offense puts more points up, the other team simply has to play catch up, with their gameplan predictable, it makes it easier on the defense esp with passrushing. This is the way its been in Indy, with a ****tier defense than the one broncos have right now. Also, running game is for sure going to be loads better, as long as the OL is solid, because defenses will have to respect the passing game.

In indy, the colts offense was SO predictable, especially the last couple of seasons with NO running game to help. teams knew we were going to throw on practically every down, and played the pass ALL the time and peyton still was successful (in regular season atleast)...opens up running game. Your gonna see a diff broncos team next year..you watch

Yeah, well, we'll see what happens. I can see the argument that Manning will take the O to another level. We'll see if it actually happens. And judging by Manning's history, will it translate into playoff wins is the big question.

[jerseyguy4]

Originally Posted by Broncolt

Ill put my life savings on it that this is exactly whats happening. Peyton is definitely NOT sitting around waiting, he is definitely going straight to work studying game tapes of the receivers, even getting workouts/sessions done with them. Peyton's gameplay style heavily relies on work ethic, timing, and chemistry/cohesiveness with the team.

Broncolt:
I know you're a pre-Denver Manning fan, as am I. From previous years, we know what's going on. What we both said is true and we know it.

Everyone:
I hate to be overly optimistic. But I see a lot of "if Peyton is as good as he was...", and "if Manning can put up the numbers he did in ..."
Get this...I've watched Manning for 14 years...he's gotten better EVERY year. I know there's a plateau somewhere. And I know he didn't have neck surgery every one of those 14 years.

But mark my words: No one works harder. No one practices or prepares more. He's coming back, and it wouldn't suprise me to see have his best season ever. Sound far fetched? It's not...he's done it every other year of his career.

People are worried he might not live up to 2010 or 2009. But I'd put my money on the side that says he'll do even better.
When Manning was recovering, there was analyst talk of his retirement. I told people that believed that then..."Don't bet against Peyton Manning"

I'm fired up for the season! Long time to wait!!!!

[Gort]

Originally Posted by Broncolt

put peyton in the 2011 colts season and colts would have won atleast 10 close games they had. (alot of games were very close losses in the 4th). your argument is expected, but boy i cannot wait till you eat your crow next season. You have no idea what peytons capable of doing. Im not saying superbowl for the next 5 years, but expect to see a HUGE improvement in both DT and decker, the rest of the offense, and YES (refuting wat u said before) the defense too. If the offense puts more points up, the other team simply has to play catch up, with their gameplan predictable, it makes it easier on the defense esp with passrushing. This is the way its been in Indy, with a ****tier defense than the one broncos have right now. Also, running game is for sure going to be loads better, as long as the OL is solid, because defenses will have to respect the passing game.

In indy, the colts offense was SO predictable, especially the last couple of seasons with NO running game to help. teams knew we were going to throw on practically every down, and played the pass ALL the time and peyton still was successful (in regular season atleast)...opens up running game. Your gonna see a diff broncos team next year..you watch

i'm sorry, but i don't know what to call this other than the "magic bean" theory.

unlike you, i watched every Broncos game last year. i saw for myself what talent we have and where we are lacking.

if Manning is so good that he instantly makes every other player on the roster so much better that his team becomes a legit SB contender, then why did Indy give him up? why didn't every team in the league come knocking for his services? why doesn't have have 10 or 11 Lombardis already?

seriously, you're not doing yourself any favors with this sort of hyperbole.

whatever benefits a healthy Manning may bring to this team on both O and D are offset by some very real needs we have for quality starting NFL players at some positions, and a real problem with depth on the roster if/when the inevitable injuries occur to key starters.

and on top of that, Manning still needs to work with his offense to get the system implemented and well-rehearsed. i don't see that happening in just 1 training camp.

so to win now, we need to start filling these holes and we can't wait to do it over 2 or 3 drafts. the timetable has been pushed up. the draft can no longer be the primary way to acquire the necessary pieces because it takes too long to get those 5 or 6 quality starters that we need that way.

that's what i'm saying. go ahead and put a lifesize picture of Manning on the ceiling above your bed. i don't care. i'm not even telling you that your crush on him is wrong. i'm simply saying that he's not enough to get us back to the SB. same thing if we were talking about Brees or Brady or Rodgers all by themselves as well.

maybe in SF, a healthy Manning is all that would be needed to get to the SB with the roster they have, but they built that roster over several years. we haven't been doing that. go back to the beginning of the McD regime and see how we essentially pressed the reset button on what Shanny was doing. now look at last year and you'll see that alot of what McD did in 2 years has been purged from the roster as well. we are not a team that has been rebuilding and stockpiling talent for several consecutive years. so to give Manning what he needs, we will have to pursue free agents and veterans via trade.

[Broncolt]

Originally Posted by Cito Pelon

Yeah, well, we'll see what happens. I can see the argument that Manning will take the O to another level. We'll see if it actually happens. And judging by Manning's history, will it translate into playoff wins is the big question.

Thats a very valid consideration and I agree, but I'd just replace your last statement by "judging by THE COLTS* history"

[Broncolt]

Originally Posted by jerseyguy4

Broncolt:
I know you're a pre-Denver Manning fan, as am I. From previous years, we know what's going on. What we both said is true and we know it.

Everyone:
I hate to be overly optimistic. But I see a lot of "if Peyton is as good as he was...", and "if Manning can put up the numbers he did in ..."
Get this...I've watched Manning for 14 years...he's gotten better EVERY year. I know there's a plateau somewhere. And I know he didn't have neck surgery every one of those 14 years.

But mark my words: No one works harder. No one practices or prepares more. He's coming back, and it wouldn't suprise me to see have his best season ever. Sound far fetched? It's not...he's done it every other year of his career.

People are worried he might not live up to 2010 or 2009. But I'd put my money on the side that says he'll do even better.
When Manning was recovering, there was analyst talk of his retirement. I told people that believed that then..."Don't bet against Peyton Manning"

I cant agree anymore with this post!! you and I probably know Manning best/better than denver fans... I know the stats really dont support that Peyton has gotten better ever year, but if any of you watched every colt game like me and jerseygurl (represent to NJ!) youd easily say that Manning never really "plateau"ed as a QB. He gets smarter and better all the time. Add to the fact that as the years went on, in my eyes the colts started to rely heavier and heavier on Manning. He wasnt MVP in 08 and 09 for no reason! He literally had the team on his back. Everyone saw the colts decline as a team too, when in 2010 they went 10-6 vs their normal 12+ win seasons...

[jerseyguy4]

Originally Posted by WhoIsJohnGalt

then why did Indy give him up? why didn't every team in the league come knocking for his services? why doesn't have have 10 or 11 Lombardis already?

Reality is, no one player gives you a Superbowl victory. Having Manning guarantees you nothing, and I am sure he will say something virtually the same every week (he always has).. What you will get is a solid run offense, with a very realistic shot at winning the division.

The goal is to make the playoffs. The 2nd goal is to be hot going into the playoffs. If people just assume that picking up Peyton means you better start clearing space on the shelf for the Lombardis, there's a fair chance you will be disappointment. Every year is a struggle and only 1 team can win.

But if you're outlook is just that you want to Broncos play well, make the playoffs, and have a SHOT at the Lombardi, then strap the F in. Looks to be a good year.

Christ, enjoy it already. If you don't enjoy this, I can't imagine what you will ever enjoy as a fan.

[Broncolt]

Originally Posted by WhoIsJohnGalt

if Manning is so good that he instantly makes every other player on the roster so much better that his team becomes a legit SB contender, then why did Indy give him up? why didn't every team in the league come knocking for his services? why doesn't have have 10 or 11 Lombardis already?

whatever benefits a healthy Manning may bring to this team on both O and D are offset by some very real needs we have for quality starting NFL players at some positions, and a real problem with depth on the roster if/when the inevitable injuries occur to key starters.

and on top of that, Manning still needs to work with his offense to get the system implemented and well-rehearsed. i don't see that happening in just 1 training camp.

so to win now, we need to start filling these holes and we can't wait to do it over 2 or 3 drafts. the timetable has been pushed up. the draft can no longer be the primary way to acquire the necessary pieces because it takes too long to get those 5 or 6 quality starters that we need that way.

that's what i'm saying. go ahead and put a lifesize picture of Manning on the ceiling above your bed. i don't care. i'm not even telling you that your crush on him is wrong. i'm simply saying that he's not enough to get us back to the SB. same thing if we were talking about Brees or Brady or Rodgers all by themselves as well.

maybe in SF, a healthy Manning is all that would be needed to get to the SB with the roster they have, but they built that roster over several years. we haven't been doing that. go back to the beginning of the McD regime and see how we essentially pressed the reset button on what Shanny was doing. now look at last year and you'll see that alot of what McD did in 2 years has been purged from the roster as well. we are not a team that has been rebuilding and stockpiling talent for several consecutive years. so to give Manning what he needs, we will have to pursue free agents and veterans via trade.

Indy gave him up simply because Irsay, colts owner, felt that this offseason was the perfect opportunity to scrap everything and rebuild. The front office and coaching staff are compltely different faces with different philosophies and ideas. The colts will be a different team next year. To answer your question in easy form: Colts are looking to rebuild, Peyton is looking for another ring, or two. It was best of both parties' interests to part ways.

SB rings are a team effort. Like I said before, I never said Peyton was going to win 5 superbowls, but youd have to be an idiot to think that Peyton will not higher the chances of winning a lombardi.

Manning's best friends for the next couple of months will be DT, decker, dresseen, and Tamme startingggg....now (or a week ago...), the offense will hopefully mesh together.

I understand your argument more, and you obviously know the broncos better than me. There are holes that do need to be filled yes, and you believe they need to be done through free agency. That point, I can agree with. As the window isnt very large.

[Gort]

Originally Posted by jerseyguy4

Reality is, no one player gives you a Superbowl victory. Having Manning guarantees you nothing, and I am sure he will say something virtually the same every week (he always has).. What you will get is a solid run offense, with a very realistic shot at winning the division.

The goal is to make the playoffs. The 2nd goal is to be hot going into the playoffs. If people just assume that picking up Peyton means you better start clearing space on the shelf for the Lombardis, there's a fair chance you will be disappointment. Every year is a struggle and only 1 team can win.

But if you're outlook is just that you want to Broncos play well, make the playoffs, and have a SHOT at the Lombardi, then strap the F in. Looks to be a good year.

Christ, enjoy it already. If you don't enjoy this, I can't imagine what you will ever enjoy as a fan.

thank you. that's what i'm saying. we need MORE pieces for the jigsaw puzzle before the whole thing comes together. if Manning had 10 more years, then no problem... we can take our time getting them on the cheap as free agents or via the draft. but he doesn't have 10 more years, so our FO needs to be more urgent and needs to be really good to get those needs met sooner rather than later.

i honestly don't care if somebody thinks Manning makes us 20% better or 30% better. it's the silly idea that Manning all by himself makes us 100% better and automatic SB contenders. i've seen some people claim that we are now the odds-on favorite to win the SB. that's just not so.

[jerseyguy4]

Originally Posted by Broncolt

Add to the fact that as the years went on, in my eyes the colts started to rely heavier and heavier on Manning. He wasnt MVP in 08 and 09 for no reason! He literally had the team on his back...

100% true. It actually was the point where 3rd and short was almost a guaranteed pass play. It was sad! Yet the Colts were still 10+ wins

And this year I see a running game behind him that I haven't hoped for much since the Colts picked up Tony Ugoh (which was a bust). There's a damn good reason to be excited. Why are so few Broncos fans afraid to drink the punch?

[Gort]

Originally Posted by jerseyguy4

100% true. It actually was the point where 3rd and short was almost a guaranteed pass play. It was sad! Yet the Colts were still 10+ wins

And this year I see a running game behind him that I haven't hoped for much since the Colts picked up Tony Ugoh (which was a bust). There's a damn good reason to be excited. Why are so few Broncos fans afraid to drink the punch?

Broncos records of late:

2011: 8-8
2010: 4-12
2009: 8-8
2008: 8-8
2007: 7-9
2006: 9-7

not alot to be optimistic about in recent years.

also, as new Broncos fans, look up how many of these years featured 0-3 slides to end the regular season.

[Broncolt]

Originally Posted by jerseyguy4

100% true. It actually was the point where 3rd and short was almost a guaranteed pass play. It was sad! Yet the Colts were still 10+ wins

And this year I see a running game behind him that I haven't hoped for much since the Colts picked up Tony Ugoh (which was a bust). There's a damn good reason to be excited. Why are so few Broncos fans afraid to drink the punch?

Like the rest of the league and other team fans, everyone has their doubts of Peyton for obvious reasons, be it health, age, choking, overrated etc. There are so many factors that would point to and support Peyton's failure. Were not just overly optimistic...we just know Peyton better than an average NFL fan, especially if weve been watching him his entire career in Indy.

[Bacchus]

People talk about Peyton's health, but in reality his health has been very good. He is in much better shape than what Elways was at age 36. His legs, and arm are still in very good condition. He has 3 years to get another ring. I am very sure that Denver can do this. 3 years for one ring, I think it will happen.