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Old 03-18-2012, 02:11 PM   #676
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Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
the type of offense TT requires would set the NFL back 50 or so yrs when the forward pass was just begining.
Well I certainly get that is the party line thinking. Do you suppose many said the same when Bill Walsh rolled out the WCO?
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:12 PM   #677
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No you either don't say it or don't make a deliberate public display at courting him. Circumstances do change, how you handle those changes matters.

I am not slamming them for perusing Manning, I just wonder could they have handled the message better?
How do you think the Titans, 49ers, and Cardinals handled it? What did we do different?
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:13 PM   #678
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I agree. I think Elway thinks what Tebow is doing out there isn't Qb-ing. He sees him and the rest of the greats at the position as artists with a very special ability, and I don't blame him. My problem is if it's all about winning then it was only rational to give Tim one more year and see where we stand. I think the best coaches/personnel evaluators will work to the strengths of their players and not try to recreate something that we won't necessarily ever find again (another Elway).

Tim had room to grow but he gave us a great starting point. We were watching him progress to the point of him having his best passing game as the last game he played while we were winning. As a fan, it was the perfect rebuild opportunity in my eyes.
Not to mention it was damn fun to watch and after all isn't that why we watch the games?
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:14 PM   #679
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Not to mention it was damn fun to watch and after all isn't that why we watch the games?
It was so fun for me. I am shocked others didn't see it that way.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:16 PM   #680
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I don't buy it. It would be too out of character.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:18 PM   #681
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Well I certainly get that is the party line thinking. Do you suppose many said the same when Bill Walsh rolled out the WCO?
WCO originated back in 1966.

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/history.htm

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The Walsh offense owes much to the past. As a Raiders' assistant in 1966, Walsh learned under Al Davis and John Rauch, who was the Raider's head coach. Raiders football was based on the theories of Sid Gillman. Al Davis had taken Gillman one step further. This system became the basis of Walsh's offense.
walsh wasn't introducing anything new just something more refined.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:20 PM   #682
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WCO originated back in 1966.

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/history.htm

walsh wasn't introducing anything new just something more refined.
I think you get my point. At the time it was considered innovative.

There is nothing "new" about what Tebow does either.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:21 PM   #683
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Have not read all - but the way this is being suggested stinks of EFX leaking that Tebow wants a trade out and not coming from the Tebow camp. Poison the well from their side and then the fans will accept it when they do get rid of him.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:23 PM   #684
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How do you think the Titans, 49ers, and Cardinals handled it? What did we do different?
The immediate strong leaks that Tebow would be traded if they got Manning.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:27 PM   #685
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I think you get my point. At the time it was considered innovative.

There is nothing "new" about what Tebow does either.
I get your point,but the NFL is/becomming a passing league. A TT run offense requires a lot of things to happen in order to be successful.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:28 PM   #686
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I get your point,but the NFL is/becomming a passing league. A TT run offense requires a lot of things to happen in order to be successful.
Like not running into a defense that has the discipline to plugs gaps.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:28 PM   #687
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This is why I said from the very start they were playing with fire...needlessly.

Now, even if they don't get Manning, they'll have to trade Tebow. I don't blame him ONE BIT. He is TOTALLY IN THE RIGHT. 100%. If someone treats you like **** over and over and then actually LIES to you about your role...flat out lies, then yeah, you won't want to be there. I'm not sure whats shocking about that. They lied.

If they don't end up with Manning, they'll be left with absolutely nothing. Literally nothing. Nice work, FO. You better hope your Brokeneck lover rescues you, John, cause its your ****ing ass on the line.

I sure hope the old man didnt think hiring Elway would insulate the organization from criticism when it acts stupidly. If so, you thought wrong. You're back in Spring, 2009 old man. Its going to ****ing hellish for you if you end up without a single QB that wants to be here Tuesday morning. Hellish....

You've been asking for a ****storm EFX and now you're going to ****ing get it.
Been out of town until now, so I'm just reading this. Brilliant post.

The bolded part it how I am starting to feel as a consumer. We've going on nearly 15 years of front office ineptitude.



"Let's start Griese over Brister, no he's good, no he's really really good, okay maybe we didn't need to keep him for 4 years to find out how awful he is, let's get Plummer, oh look we made it to the AFCCG, let's draft a quarterback to replace him, oh we don't like this quarterback, let's trade him for a different quarterback, oh that didn't work out, but Cutler is pissed, so now we HAVE to trade him, let's trade him for Orton and draft Tebow, oh Orton sucks but let's start him anyway, oh that's not working out, let's start Tebow, oh hey we won a playoff game, let's go out and get Payton Manning, oh that didn't work but now Tebow is pissed so we HAVE to trade him."

So I've color-coded the previous text for obvious reasons. I'm tired of this front office making the same mistakes over and over. The Keystone Cops up there have no clue WTF they're doing.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:30 PM   #688
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Like not running into a defense that has the discipline to plugs gaps.
that would be one.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:30 PM   #689
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It is not like the Broncos are trying to trade for Matt Cassell.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:34 PM   #690
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It is not like the Broncos are trying to trade for Matt Cassell.
You get the feeling that if they could get away with it, EFX would rather Cassell than Tebow though.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:37 PM   #691
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if the story is legit, asking to be traded is a blatant complaint lol.
Here is the Difference.

Tebow himself has said ZERO. The story comes from an unidentified source that may or may not be true.

Elway did publically say that Tebow had earned the right to be the starter going
into camp. He also said they would bring in 2 QBs to compete. Then he publically scouted multiple QBs for the draft and has publically tried to sign Manning. Manning is a special case, but the QBs he is scouting will not go in lower rounds. There will not be an "open competition ' for the nunber 1 QB spot on the roster if Manning is signed....and anyone who says that is the case is not being truthful about the position. Manning will be #1, just based on salary.

Last year they said there would be open competition, then named Orton the starter 3 days into camp, before any games or preseason . Tebow voiced his disappointment then., but then became a good soldier and shut up about it.
Meanwhile Orton received all the snaps with the first team and Tebow was relegated to limited snaps and time with the 2nd and third strings, until Orton had crapped the bed for a 1-4 record.

Frankly knowing just those facts above , which camp would you say is being most direct and open, and honest ?



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Old 03-18-2012, 02:43 PM   #692
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If we don't land Manning, and Tebow isn't our starter, it'll mean Tebow asked for a trade, and there's exactly one person you can blame if that happens. Tebow. Not EFX, but Tebow. If he can't appreciate that we're trying to sign possibly the best QB to ever play... Well ****.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:45 PM   #693
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Why are we spending so much time on a light rail rumor? Especially one designed to make Tebow look poor despite the fact that he, unlike management, has not said a word this entire situation.

This is Dove Valley being Dove Valley. Remember when they leaked that Cutler was a drunk to justify that trade?

The one out Tebow could give this FO is to ask for a trade. Don't give them the satisfaction, and let them twist in the wind if the Manning deal falls through.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:46 PM   #694
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You get the feeling that if they could get away with it, EFX would rather Cassell than Tebow though.
If that were true, they would have kept orton and quinn
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:48 PM   #695
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Probably less pissed than when he threw the winning touchdown against the Steelers in the playoffs...
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:48 PM   #696
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You get the feeling that if they could get away with it, EFX would rather Cassell than Tebow though.
Nope, I think they want a guy who is consistent. Face it our FO made a run at a guy who has been consistently great at his position for 15 years.

I would balk at the nerve damage personally but if he is ok then it is a good move.

Tebow needs to keep working to get better and stop worrying about feelings. Peyton got cut, no one is above the franchise as a player. Do your job well and no one will try to replace you.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:49 PM   #697
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Why are we spending so much time on a light rail rumor? Especially one designed to make Tebow look poor despite the fact that he, unlike management, has not said a word this entire situation.

This is Dove Valley being Dove Valley. Remember when they leaked that Cutler was a drunk to justify that trade?

The one out Tebow could give this FO is to ask for a trade. Don't give them the satisfaction, and let them twist in the wind if the Manning deal falls through.
The one difference in your argument. Cutler is a drunk. Dove Valley didn't need to leak that. It was being discussed well before Shanahans was fired.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:52 PM   #698
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If we don't land Manning, and Tebow isn't our starter, it'll mean Tebow asked for a trade, and there's exactly one person you can blame if that happens. Tebow. Not EFX, but Tebow. If he can't appreciate that we're trying to sign possibly the best QB to ever play... Well ****.
The Broncos could trade Tebow without him asking for it. It would just be to their advantage to have the fans think they were doing what Tebow wanted. So as long as we hear it from anyone other than Tim Tebow, we have to question the credibility of the source. Especially since the Broncos front office appears to have none.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:53 PM   #699
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To be honest, I don't think Tebow has any interest in getting better as a QB. He's had the same problems and been dogged by the same questions his whole life, and he hasn't done anything about it. I think he genuinely thinks that God will make everything alright for him and that he should take his immense popularity as a sign of things working out. I think he believes largely what MacGruder believes--that he is a singular talent, and that he does not need to be better as a "traditional" (read: competent) passer because his guts and strength and guile are enough. I think he likes being the underdog, likes being questioned, and is in love with the narrative that has been crafted around him as the guy that bursts expectations and does things the "wrong" way. I think he is more interested in being a symbol and mouthpiece for his values than he is in improving as a football player, and I think he feels that his popularity has reached a point where that message is working. He's not going to sit behind Manning because sitting keeps him out of the spotlight.

Last edited by extralife; 03-18-2012 at 02:57 PM..
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:54 PM   #700
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If we don't land Manning, and Tebow isn't our starter, it'll mean Tebow asked for a trade, and there's exactly one person you can blame if that happens. Tebow. Not EFX, but Tebow. If he can't appreciate that we're trying to sign possibly the best QB to ever play... Well ****.
Its not about them just signing Manning. Alot of the rumors have suggested if we do sign Manning Tebow would be traded. Now if I was Tebow I would be pissed about the front office not shooting down those rumors. I can also see why the front office doesnt shoot them down, becuase they probably promised Manning they would trade him.
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