5,000+ posts and 200+ pages later & Peyton Manning is a Bronco | Thanks for the fun in this thread.

[barryr]

Originally Posted by Broncobiv

After that game, I made a post on Facebook to a few idiot Steelers fans crying about their injuries:

For all of those Steelers fans crying about having so many players injured and using that as the main reason they lost yesterday, get over it! It's the NFL, and EVERY team has injuries! Here's a quick list of VERY important players that Denver was without yesterday:

- Brian Dawkins (starting safety)
- Chris Kuper (starting right guard)
- Spencer Larsen (starting fullback)
- Eric Decker (#2 WR led Denver in catches/yards/TD's this season, injured on the first play of the second quarter yesterday...thanks Harrison)
- Knowshon Moreno (2nd string RB, really could have used him with McGahee banged up right now)
- Kevin Vickerson (was a starting defensive tackle before injury)
- Ty Warren (was the other starting defensive tackle before injury)
Finally, not an injury, but still worth noting - Brandon Lloyd (former #1 WR, traded away mid-season)

This is why I find this whole "Teboner" thing assinine. I do not see tons of posters and threads where it is stated the Broncos won this past season just because of Tebow. But I do see a lot more in comparison of those that dismiss anything Tebow did and the team basically won despite Tebow even though they couldn't seem to win despite Orton. Funny thing is those dismissing Tebow as only winning against bad teams are also dismissing the entire team and this is the same group that is supposedly a QB away for greatness according to some. I doubt if Manning signs next year we will see very many posts after a Bronco win, that it was against a poor team so it doesn't really count.

[StugotsIII]

Originally Posted by Broncobiv

After that game, I made a post on Facebook to a few idiot Steelers fans crying about their injuries:

For all of those Steelers fans crying about having so many players injured and using that as the main reason they lost yesterday, get over it! It's the NFL, and EVERY team has injuries! Here's a quick list of VERY important players that Denver was without yesterday:

- Brian Dawkins (starting safety)
- Chris Kuper (starting right guard)
- Spencer Larsen (starting fullback)
- Eric Decker (#2 WR led Denver in catches/yards/TD's this season, injured on the first play of the second quarter yesterday...thanks Harrison)
- Knowshon Moreno (2nd string RB, really could have used him with McGahee banged up right now)
- Kevin Vickerson (was a starting defensive tackle before injury)
- Ty Warren (was the other starting defensive tackle before injury)
Finally, not an injury, but still worth noting - Brandon Lloyd (former #1 WR, traded away mid-season)

What did Denver end up getting for Lloyd?

[robbieopperude]

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

Yeah, the Broncos didn't have any injury trouble whatsoever, what with last year's leading rusher gone... our best safety, Koop, McGahee was gimped up most of the end of the season.

Why would you make so many excuses for only the opposition?

I think the level of talent is decisively in Pitt's favor for the injured players. I think that is pretty obvious.

Like another guy said you have to play the game and over come the injuries.

Like I said. Tebow's record was a big benefactor of playing teams who happened to have injuries when we played them.
Pitt. S.D. Chic are 3 games I can think of.

I'm a huge Tebow fan and I think his style of play is good enough to get Denver to the playoffs consistently if he improves his short passing game. But I'm not oblivious to the facts that we had some fluke wins last year against bad teams that helped us back into the playoffs.

[robbieopperude]

Originally Posted by barryr

This is why I find this whole "Teboner" thing assinine. I do not see tons of posters and threads where it is stated the Broncos won this past season just because of Tebow. But I do see a lot more in comparison of those that dismiss anything Tebow did and the team basically won despite Tebow even though they couldn't seem to win despite Orton. Funny thing is those dismissing Tebow as only winning against bad teams are also dismissing the entire team and this is the same group that is supposedly a QB away for greatness according to some. I doubt if Manning signs next year we will see very many posts after a Bronco win, that it was against a poor team so it doesn't really count.

I never said they didn't count. I did say there aren't nearly as many poor teams on the schedule this year.

[Broncojef]

Originally Posted by StugotsIII

What did Denver end up getting for Lloyd?

It was something lame like a 6th or 7th rounder

[robbieopperude]

Originally Posted by ScottXray

I'm just saying that Tebow vs Manning is apples and oranges. You have to make the comparison with the same players. If Manning goes elsewhere and
we keep Tim we are not going to have problems getting top O-linemen, Defensive players etc. It is just receivers that may not want to come here because of Tebow. The Draft can help there.

If Manning does come here, and then goes down the team is going to drop off no matter who is the backup. Putting the off season developement into him that he was promised by Fox and Elway may pan out. Maybe it won't...but the team does owe him THAT much, and they will look bad if they trade him for peanuts or less than his costs ( read first round pick or swap for equivalent potential....and that will take some splaining Lucy.)

Denver is never going to get a 1st round pick for Tebow because the product on the field hasn't been 1st round worthy. I don't think that is a waist of resources.

[barryr]

Originally Posted by robbieopperude

I never said they didn't count. I did say there aren't nearly as many poor teams on the schedule this year.

Well, maybe the Broncos and Tebow would be better and some of those teams maybe not as good as thought. We don't know either way. Every year there are teams that most thought would be good, but end up not so good and some thought bad, but do better than expected, so depends on which ones of those happen to be on your schedule and which players may be hurt and not playing at the time of playing them.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by StugotsIII

What did Denver end up getting for Lloyd?

conditional 6th but moved to 5th because he played so well..

which is now almost worth a 4th as low as they draft..

[ScottXray]

Originally Posted by robbieopperude

Denver is never going to get a 1st round pick for Tebow because the product on the field hasn't been 1st round worthy. I don't think that is a waist of resources.

I agree. He also does not have much cap hit. Give him the development time
and maybe you get a real return on the investment. Trade him and you don't.

But you actually have to put the resources into developing him. Or is that too hard for the FO to do? WAHHH!

[robbieopperude]

Originally Posted by Broncojef

It was something lame like a 6th or 7th rounder

We received this years 5th.

I still can't believe N.E. didn't offer better than that. Belecheat hoarding picks probably cost him a S.B.

[Ratboy]

Originally Posted by Rolandftw

Priscoe thinks it might be a package deal with Manning, Wayne, and Clark all going to Denver.

https://twitter.com/#!/PriscoCBS/sta...05440491335681

[barryr]

Originally Posted by ScottXray

I agree. He also does not have much cap hit. Give him the development time
and maybe you get a real return on the investment. Trade him and you don't.

But you actually have to put the resources into developing him. Or is that too hard for the FO to do? WAHHH!

I just don't see the time spent on deveoping Tebow if Manning is signed. They aren't trying to sign Manning to just win the West.

[robbieopperude]

Originally Posted by ScottXray

I agree. He also does not have much cap hit. Give him the development time
and maybe you get a real return on the investment. Trade him and you don't.

But you actually have to put the resources into developing him. Or is that too hard for the FO to do? WAHHH!

I agree he deserves time to develop but I don't agree that it needs to be under center. If you develop him into a quality QB why in the world would you want to trade him then.

It would be close to the same thing as Houston dealing Schaub. Just doesn't make sense.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by barryr

I just don't see the time spent on deveoping Tebow if Manning is signed. They aren't trying to sign Manning to just win the West.

HE will not be developed other than in the film room and working behinf=d him IF they do not trade him.

remember he was Joshes pick and although Josh reached out to Elway, if they can get anything for him and get rid of the distractions while getting a HOF QB instead he is gone so fast well most will wonder if he was ever here..

Much to my dismay, as I really like the kid..

[yerner]

Originally Posted by Rolandftw

Priscoe thinks it might be a package deal with Manning, Wayne, and Clark all going to Denver.

https://twitter.com/#!/PriscoCBS/sta...05440491335681

Wouldn't mind Jeff Saturday playing one more year too.

[barryr]

Originally Posted by lonestar

HE will not be developed other than in the film room and working behinf=d him IF they do not trade him.

remember he was Joshes pick and although Josh reached out to Elway, if they can get anything for him and get rid of the distractions while getting a HOF QB instead he is gone so fast well most will wonder if he was ever here..

Much to my dismay, as I really like the kid..

Well, any team going after Manning is a team that is not sold on their current QB, so that pretty much sums it up.

[Broncojef]

Originally Posted by lonestar

HE will not be developed other than in the film room and working behinf=d him IF they do not trade him.

remember he was Joshes pick and although Josh reached out to Elway, if they can get anything for him and get rid of the distractions while getting a HOF QB instead he is gone so fast well most will wonder if he was ever here..

Much to my dismay, as I really like the kid..

I like him too but Manning on the team puts us in contention mode now, there will be no grooming. Tebow needs snaps at this point period, his clipboard days are done. Get what you can for him and drive on.

[errand]

Originally Posted by jhns

We reverted back to a passing offense when Tebow started? You are too dumb to troll.

No, but we did change our offense on the fly from a conventional one where we threw the ball over 15 times a game to a stone age rudimentary one to try and hide Tebow's lack of of passing skills.

Point being our coaching staff has proven they're able to adjust, and implement a different game plan depending on who, and how good our QB is.

[BroncoBeavis]

Originally Posted by robbieopperude

I think the level of talent is decisively in Pitt's favor for the injured players. I think that is pretty obvious.

Yeah. Obviously their second best safety was more important to them than our best safety was to us.

And of course losing Decker early in the game was no biggie.

PIT still managed to beat their season average for points. We won the game by scoring more on offense than the Steelers typically allowed.

Give it up dude. We beat the Steelers. The real Pittsburgh Steelers.

[MacGruder]

Originally Posted by robbieopperude

Denver is never going to get a 1st round pick for Tebow because the product on the field hasn't been 1st round worthy. I don't think that is a waist of resources.

The first round pick in Peyton manning didn't win his first playoff game until playoff game 4... Tebow won his first.. yeah.. Tebow should be worth more than a first rounder.. especially considering he did it against all the odds..

[MacGruder]

Originally Posted by errand

No, but we did change our offense on the fly from a conventional one where we threw the ball over 15 times a game to a stone age rudimentary one to try and hide Tebow's lack of of passing skills.

Point being our coaching staff has proven they're able to adjust, and implement a different game plan depending on who, and how good our QB is.

Fox ALWAYS plays that way.. he got to a superbowl playing that way!

[Broncobiv]

Originally Posted by MacGruder

The first round pick in Peyton manning didn't win his first playoff game until playoff game 4... Tebow won his first.. yeah.. Tebow should be worth more than a first rounder.. especially considering he did it against all the odds..

Let me get this straight. Manning was a first round pick, and he didn't win his first playoff game until try #4. Tebow was a first round pick, but he won his first playoff game. That means that Tebow, in trade, is worth a first rounder + another pick?

Infallible logic there, my friend!

[errand]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

1-4 with Orton.

7-4 with Tebow.

Whatever's clever though.

Prior to missing this past season Manning led his team to 9 straight play off seasons of which his team won 12 or more games in 7 of them....two SB's and one title.

That is clever....and about as good as you can get in the salary cap free agency era where it is hard to keep a team together

[errand]

Originally Posted by barryr

You don't sign Peyton Manning at this stage of his career to simply "give yourself a fighting chance" against the great teams.

As opposed to keeping Tebow and having "NO CHANCE"?

[Drek]

Originally Posted by Broncojef

I like him too but Manning on the team puts us in contention mode now, there will be no grooming. Tebow needs snaps at this point period, his clipboard days are done. Get what you can for him and drive on.

We made it to the second round of the playoffs this past year. We won a single game less on the regular season than the eventual Super Bowl champions.

We did that after a 1-4 start leading to a QB change. Our new QB was making his 4th to 17th starts this season (including the playoffs) without having any off-season work and having his pre-season/camp work relegated to the second string.

Our defense was a bottom half of the league unit statistically, and their complete failure is what ended the playoffs for us. We now have an off-season to address the gaping holes and lack of depth on that unit.

From the start of the 2011 season to the end of it we changed both of our starting WRs, our starting RB, and fielded a rookie RT, two second year interior linemen who have yet to spend a full off-season at the NFL level, and a LT who still hasn't had a full off-season of rehab from a serious knee injury two years ago.

Even the most pragmatic estimate on how much the 2011 club can improve for the 2012 season should have us viewed as a contending club. The division is not getting stronger. Oakland has no ammo to improve and was our closest threat. San Diego will lose additional key pieces this off-season and gets another year older with the holdovers from the Shotty era. KC still has no answers at corner and is betting on a HC who failed once already to make something out of a shallow roster with many key players needing to rebound from serious injuries.

Marginal improvement and we lock up the division for the next few years, giving us a few shots to make a run. Real significant improvement and we could be the class of the league with a stout defense, elite running game, and a powerful X factor at QB who will continue to improve as a passer.