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Old 03-12-2012, 08:52 PM   #2301
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If the Broncos sign Manning, their main objective will be to go after the Super Bowl. Developing Tebow will not be important and he will not grow as a QB taking minimal snaps in camp and holding a clipboard for 2-3 more years. That has happened with Tebow since he's been a Bronco and not much development has occurred doing that.
Well Tebow was always a guy who was projected as a development QB who needed 3 or 4 years to work on his mechanics. He was thrown into the fire way to early his rookie year and it showed last year that he isn't ready to make any of the NFL throws accept the deep ball.

He is improving but there is now way he should have been starting until this season at the earliest.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:53 PM   #2302
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If the Broncos sign Manning, their main objective will be to go after the Super Bowl. Developing Tebow will not be important and he will not grow as a QB taking minimal snaps in camp and holding a clipboard for 2-3 more years. That has happened with Tebow since he's been a Bronco and not much development has occurred doing that.
Totally concur...the best solution is to get a second or third round talent for him, move up or position themselves to get a Weeden type guy to watch and fill-in in a pinch. If Manning comes onboard its SuperBowl or bust and the development of Tebow will be done elsewhere IMO.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:54 PM   #2303
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You are so clueless. We aren't going to be able to score enough points to keep up with Atlanta, Carolina, or Houston.
New Orleans is way better than us as is N.E.
I don't think we surprise Pitt again.

I think the T.B. game is a 60/40 we are the favorite. I missed them on my first glance at the schedule.

We will be lucky to go 3-7.

Remember the Broncos beat zero teams with a winning record last year in the regular season. The schedule shows 11 games against teams at or above .500 and another 2 against 7-9 KC who we lost 1 game too and only managed 3 points.
Cincinnati had a winning record
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:55 PM   #2304
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Well Tebow was always a guy who was projected as a development QB who needed 3 or 4 years to work on his mechanics. He was thrown into the fire way to early his rookie year and it showed last year that he isn't ready to make any of the NFL throws accept the deep ball.

He is improving but there is now way he should have been starting until this season at the earliest.
The only way he progresses now is time under center and that won't be in denver. By the time Manning is done here Tebow's contract would be up and he'd move on anyway. The best answer is to move Tebow for more ammo to make this team compete now.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:57 PM   #2305
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Just looked at that schedule again and with Timmy I think the over/under on wins is going to be 5 with a high likely hood on the under.

With Peyton/Wayne/Clark the over/under is probably 9. That's how rough that schedule is.

http://broncotalk.net/2012/01/28201/...nts-announced/
With an improved Tebow, Wayne and Clark its about 6-7 for Tebow, and with Peyton maybe 8-9. We still have to throw a lot more assets at the defense and Offense to get to that 9 win figure. And the Indy players are a 2-3 year rental, which does buy time for Tebow to try to improve, and for the addtional pieces needed to be added in 1-2 years.

I agree that investing in PM is the best thing for the team, but I disagree that Tebow only wins 4-5 games, if he is also given addtional weapons and coaching and a chance to perform with game plans designed to support him. ( read spread formations with more than 2 receivers before 3rd and 8 and a true pass catching TE and RBs.

I still would like to see Tebow stay in Denver, and we will not get good value for him in any trade.

Frankly, I don't care if the circus around Tebow ( not from Tebow but the fans and media) pisses Elway and Co off. They are being paid to handle it, and should grow a pair and deal with it in a professional manner, and stop looking for ways to get rid of him. Develope him, and DO THEIR JOBS.

Only if a trade gets more value for him than is invested, should they deal him. And they may regret it.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:57 PM   #2306
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Improving by 15% gets him to 61.5%. With his rushing ability, that is definitely good enough to win a lot of games.
I meant 15 percent of the previous season. I don't think it is realistic to think Tim will ever complete 61.5 percent of his passes over an actual NFL season.

2011 completion percentage = 46.5 x 1.15 = 53.48 %

You don't add them.

But yeah. If Timmy has his completion percentage up to 61.5 I would be happy to give him a 5 year extension on his contract.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:59 PM   #2307
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Cincinnati had a winning record
I missed that but Tebow didn't beat Cinci either which is what I was thinking about at the time.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:01 PM   #2308
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With an improved Tebow, Wayne and Clark its about 6-7 for Tebow, and with Peyton maybe 8-9. We still have to throw a lot more assets at the defense and Offense to get to that 9 win figure. And the Indy players are a 2-3 year rental, which does buy time for Tebow to try to improve, and for the addtional pieces needed to be added in 1-2 years.

I agree that investing in PM is the best thing for the team, but I disagree that Tebow only wins 4-5 games, if he is also given addtional weapons and coaching and a chance to perform with game plans designed to support him. ( read spread formations with more than 2 receivers before 3rd and 8 and a true pass catching TE and RBs.

I still would like to see Tebow stay in Denver, and we will not get good value for him in any trade.

Frankly, I don't care if the circus around Tebow ( not from Tebow but the fans and media) pisses Elway and Co off. They are being paid to handle it, and should grow a pair and deal with it in a professional manner, and stop looking for ways to get rid of him. Develope him, and DO THEIR JOBS.

Only if a trade gets more value for him than is invested, should they deal him. And they may regret it.
Problem is no weapons on offense are coming to play for Tebow and his 10 to 15 passes a game. Wayne wants 3 more good years so he can try and have HOF type stats. Clark would be a great fit in Denver regardless but I don't think we can get him.

Bottom line is if we miss on Tim we are going to have to draft him weapons because they aren't coming to play via free agency.

Someone else mentioned throwing a ton of money at Nicks the G from the Saints. That would be the best thing we could do for Tebow via free agency.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:03 PM   #2309
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Totally concur...the best solution is to get a second or third round talent for him, move up or position themselves to get a Weeden type guy to watch and fill-in in a pinch. If Manning comes onboard its SuperBowl or bust and the development of Tebow will be done elsewhere IMO.
Count me against Weeden. I would take Foles over him any day of the week and I am not that sold on Foles either, but at least he has upside potential.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:04 PM   #2310
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Totally concur...the best solution is to get a second or third round talent for him, move up or position themselves to get a Weeden type guy to watch and fill-in in a pinch. If Manning comes onboard its SuperBowl or bust and the development of Tebow will be done elsewhere IMO.
If they signed Manning, I hope they wouldn't waste a pick on a guy like Weeden. Even if Manning only starts 2 years, You've got a QB who is turning 31 midway through his first season as a starter.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:07 PM   #2311
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I missed that but Tebow didn't beat Cinci either which is what I was thinking about at the time.
So he was 1-2 counting playoffs against teams over .500 but he went 7-2 against the other 9 teams, some of which were 8-8. Your point isnt a very good one. He still hasn't had an offseason or played enough games to equal a full season
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:07 PM   #2312
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You are so clueless. We aren't going to be able to score enough points to keep up with Atlanta, Carolina, or Houston.
New Orleans is way better than us as is N.E.
I don't think we surprise Pitt again.
Go back and look at the results. Atlanta and Carolina scored tons some games. Not much in others. Usually related to wins and losses.

And you can keep your negative nancyism alive by predicting losses to teams that we just beat if you want... but the game against PIT shouldn't even have been as close as it was. If not for a blown fumble call and a dumb fumble by Willis, we win that one going away.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:07 PM   #2313
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I'd rather wait and get some youth on Defense this season and look at the QB's next year.

Perhaps we could even trade up next year for Wilson from Ark. That is the guy I like out of the next two classes.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:08 PM   #2314
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so if we get manning then what is our goal will fans be happy with just a playoff appearance ? a playoff win ? afc championship appearance or a Superbowl appearance or all or nothing ?
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:11 PM   #2315
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If they signed Manning, I hope they wouldn't waste a pick on a guy like Weeden. Even if Manning only starts 2 years, You've got a QB who is turning 31 midway through his first season as a starter.
I don't really care who it is, take the best young pocket passer you can get to sit behind manning and be done with this circus.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:12 PM   #2316
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Go back and look at the results. Atlanta and Carolina scored tons some games. Not much in others. Usually related to wins and losses.

And you can keep your negative nancyism alive by predicting losses to teams that we just beat if you want... but the game against PIT shouldn't even have been as close as it was. If not for a blown fumble call and a dumb fumble by Willis, we win that one going away.
That was against a Pitt team w/ a QB at about 50 percent mobility and they were missing there starting S and RB. I think that had 2 starting D.Lineman get injured early in the game as well.

Did we beat them yes. Like I said in an earlier post we are going to have to catch teams with these types of injuries again to get to 8-8.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:13 PM   #2317
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so if we get manning then what is our goal will fans be happy with just a playoff appearance ? a playoff win ? afc championship appearance or a Superbowl appearance or all or nothing ?
I'll be satisfied with the Manning deal if we make it to a Super Bowl, win or lose.

Going into it, knowing full-well that Manning will only be around for about 3 years max, I think that should be the Denver brass' expectation as well (if not a Super Bowl win). Expecting anything less makes me wonder...what's the f'n point? Just stick with Tebow, let him develop, and keep him for 12 more years.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:14 PM   #2318
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so if we get manning then what is our goal will fans be happy with just a playoff appearance ? a playoff win ? afc championship appearance or a Superbowl appearance or all or nothing ?
To me. We need to win the AFC West and be in a place to compete in the playoffs against all the teams. If we lose to Balt. or NE in a hard fought battle I am ok with that. I'm not OK with losing 45 to 14 in the 2nd round of the playoffs and looking like we shouldn't be there.

That would be a failure for the Manning experiment.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:18 PM   #2319
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That was against a Pitt team w/ a QB at about 50 percent mobility and they were missing there starting S and RB. I think that had 2 starting D.Lineman get injured early in the game as well.

Did we beat them yes. Like I said in an earlier post we are going to have to catch teams with these types of injuries again to get to 8-8.
Yeah, the Broncos didn't have any injury trouble whatsoever, what with last year's leading rusher gone... our best safety, Koop, McGahee was gimped up most of the end of the season.

Why would you make so many excuses for only the opposition?
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:21 PM   #2320
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So he was 1-2 counting playoffs against teams over .500 but he went 7-2 against the other 9 teams, some of which were 8-8. Your point isnt a very good one. He still hasn't had an offseason or played enough games to equal a full season
That is exactly my point. Tim was good at beating teams that were of equal talent to ours. Well next year we have a lot of games where they are going to have more talent.

I have been saying Tebow would have to dominate against the AFC West because we aren't going to win many games outside of the division.

I like our chances in 7 out of the 8 games against the AFC West. I don't have confidence in us winning on the road in S.D. as of yet.

I guess we will have to see what the off season brings. We can debate this more if we don't get Manning.

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Old 03-12-2012, 09:23 PM   #2321
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Problem is no weapons on offense are coming to play for Tebow and his 10 to 15 passes a game. Wayne wants 3 more good years so he can try and have HOF type stats. Clark would be a great fit in Denver regardless but I don't think we can get him.

Bottom line is if we miss on Tim we are going to have to draft him weapons because they aren't coming to play via free agency.

Someone else mentioned throwing a ton of money at Nicks the G from the Saints. That would be the best thing we could do for Tebow via free agency.
I'm just saying that Tebow vs Manning is apples and oranges. You have to make the comparison with the same players. If Manning goes elsewhere and
we keep Tim we are not going to have problems getting top O-linemen, Defensive players etc. It is just receivers that may not want to come here because of Tebow. The Draft can help there.

If Manning does come here, and then goes down the team is going to drop off no matter who is the backup. Putting the off season developement into him that he was promised by Fox and Elway may pan out. Maybe it won't...but the team does owe him THAT much, and they will look bad if they trade him for peanuts or less than his costs ( read first round pick or swap for equivalent potential....and that will take some splaining Lucy.)
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:23 PM   #2322
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Yeah, the Broncos didn't have any injury trouble whatsoever, what with last year's leading rusher gone... our best safety, Koop, McGahee was gimped up most of the end of the season.

Why would you make so many excuses for only the opposition?
After that game, I made a post on Facebook to a few idiot Steelers fans crying about their injuries:

For all of those Steelers fans crying about having so many players injured and using that as the main reason they lost yesterday, get over it! It's the NFL, and EVERY team has injuries! Here's a quick list of VERY important players that Denver was without yesterday:

- Brian Dawkins (starting safety)
- Chris Kuper (starting right guard)
- Spencer Larsen (starting fullback)
- Eric Decker (#2 WR led Denver in catches/yards/TD's this season, injured on the first play of the second quarter yesterday...thanks Harrison)
- Knowshon Moreno (2nd string RB, really could have used him with McGahee banged up right now)
- Kevin Vickerson (was a starting defensive tackle before injury)
- Ty Warren (was the other starting defensive tackle before injury)
Finally, not an injury, but still worth noting - Brandon Lloyd (former #1 WR, traded away mid-season)
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:27 PM   #2323
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I'll be satisfied with the Manning deal if we make it to a Super Bowl, win or lose.

Going into it, knowing full-well that Manning will only be around for about 3 years max, I think that should be the Denver brass' expectation as well (if not a Super Bowl win). Expecting anything less makes me wonder...what's the f'n point? Just stick with Tebow, let him develop, and keep him for 12 more years.
Agree...anything less is FAIL! We are going back to Shanahans "just one or two players away" with anything less. Been there , done that. Either build through the draft as we were told the plan is, or scrap it for win now at any cost.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:29 PM   #2324
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Priscoe thinks it might be a package deal with Manning, Wayne, and Clark all going to Denver.

https://twitter.com/#!/PriscoCBS/sta...05440491335681

Last edited by Rolandftw; 03-12-2012 at 09:31 PM..
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:30 PM   #2325
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Agree...anything less is FAIL! We are going back to Shanahans "just one or two players away" with anything less. Been there , done that. Either build through the draft as we were told the plan is, or scrap it for win now at any cost.
John's about to leave his stamp on this team and usher in a period of winning. I have faith in him and his decisions. The Manning deal will be huge and this fall will be a ton of fun.
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