5,000+ posts and 200+ pages later & Peyton Manning is a Bronco | Thanks for the fun in this thread.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

But we do know he won't be 100% of his old self. You can spin and assume all you want. That fact will not change.

I don't need to know any specifics at all to know he's not ever going to be 100%. You don't seem to grasp that.

I never said he would be 100%, and I'm not the one making definitive statements about Manning one way or the other. You're the one definitively ruling him out, which requires him to be too far from 100% to be effective. Since you can't prove that's the case then your argument fails. Which is my whole point. I'm not sure why you're having such a hard time with this. I'm saying let the medical professionals and football professionals make the call. You're saying you've made the call.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by TonyR

This is going to require you to actually think, but play along here. Let's say Manning comes in and plays 2-3 years. The end result is that the Broncos need to find a QBOTF. But hey, guess what?!? If Tebow doesn't work out over the next couple of years we're in pretty much exactly the same situation! Football is not only about winning but winning now. Maybe you're young or naive or both and don't understand this, but I'm telling you it's true. We have a much better chance to win something in the short term with a healthy Manning than we do with Tebow. There's just no rational argument to the contrary. Again, you're letting your love of Tebow cloud your thinking about this. If Manning can play this is close to a no-brainer, particularly for a FO that doesn't believe in Tebow (and I admit I'm assuming that this may be the case).

That's one opinion.

I'm of the opinion that we won based mostly on a gimicky offense that made this team look much better than it is. Running a conventional NFL offense we were the worst team in football for the last year and a half, THE WORST. Worse than the Colts and Manning couldn't get the Colts past the Wild card round in 2010.

Manning isn't going to bridge the talent gap here, and sinking huge resources into him will not allow us to address other areas that would make building a complete team possible.

We're much better off addressing other needs, building a solid team and if Tebow flops, drafting a QB and inserting him into a better team.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by TonyR

I never said he would be 100%, and I'm not the one making definitive statements about Manning one way or the other. You're the one definitively ruling him out, which requires him to be too far from 100% to be effective. Since you can't prove that's the case then your argument fails. Which is my whole point. I'm not sure why you're having such a hard time with this. I'm saying let the medical professionals and football professionals make the call. You're saying you've made the call.

I've never come close to ruling Manning out, dork.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

I'm of the opinion that we won based mostly on a gimicky offense that made this team look much better than it is. Running a conventional NFL offense we were the worst team in football for the last year and a half, THE WORST. Worse than the Colts and Manning couldn't get the Colts past the Wild card round in 2010.

Manning isn't going to bridge the talent gap here, and sinking huge resources into him will not allow us to address other areas that would make building a complete team possible.

We're much better off addressing other needs, building a solid team and if Tebow flops, drafting a QB and inserting him into a better team.

I'm fully on board with the bolded part. I'm just of the opinion that Manning can similarly mask a lot of our shortcomings but in a different way. I also think Manning can help bring in some FA's. So when you factor in Manning, FA, the draft, and the improvement of some of our younger players, this team can make some dramatic improvement.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by TonyR

I'm fully on board with the bolded part. I'm just of the opinion that Manning can similarly mask a lot of our shortcomings but in a different way. I also think Manning can help bring in some FA's. So when you factor in Manning, FA, the draft, and the improvement of some of our younger players, this team can make some dramatic improvement.

The shortcomings that Manning has to mask are much larger than when running the "Tebow" offense.

Like I said, We're worse than the Colts were, and Manning didn't lead them anywhere in 2010. Now he's a year out of football, currently no where near 100%, but he's going to lead us to the SB in a year? Get bent.

[broncoblue]

http://broncoblue69.blogspot.com/ <----- my ramblings

I cant see it happening .If it did and Tebow isnt booted then can you imagine the experience and knowledge he could learn from manning and elway.
I can also see tebow going and manning having a career ender in the first game and us being up the **** creek and no paddle.

[KO5K]

Originally Posted by TonyR

I'm fully on board with the bolded part. I'm just of the opinion that Manning can similarly mask a lot of our shortcomings but in a different way. I also think Manning can help bring in some FA's. So when you factor in Manning, FA, the draft, and the improvement of some of our younger players, this team can make some dramatic improvement.

What happens in two/three years when Manning and said FA retire (Wayne, Saturday etc.) and we have nothing to show for the last three years?

We probably don't have a QB, if Elway is going all out on Manning then he needs to give him some talent, you can't waste 1st round/2nd round picks on QBs.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

The shortcomings that Manning has to mask are much larger than when running the "Tebow" offense.

Like I said, We're worse than the Colts were, and Manning didn't lead them anywhere in 2010. Now he's a year out of football, currently no where near 100%, but he's going to lead us to the SB in a year?

To the first part, a healthy Manning has considerably more ability to hide a teams' shortcomings than Tebow does.

To the second part, I never said anything about Manning leading us to a Super Bowl in a year. But I do think our chances are a hell of a lot higher with him, and any sane person who's thinking clearly would agree with me.

[broncoblue]

tonyr its hard work passing the ball with a zimmerframe .

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by KO5K

What happens in two/three years when Manning and said FA retire (Wayne, Saturday etc.) and we have nothing to show for the last three years?

Yup, I share this concern. But again, if Tebow doesn't work out we're in pretty much the same situation. I would assume that if they go after Manning that they will put a plan in place to get a QBOTF. But I still think you try to maximize your potential in the short term, and a healthy Manning does that. And that's particularly an understandable strategy if they don't believe in Tebow. Since Luck/RGIII are pretty much out of reach you can push the acquisition of QBOTF down the road a little bit.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by TonyR

To the first part, a healthy Manning has considerably more ability to hide a teams' shortcomings than Tebow does.

Not at all true. The majority of this teams shortcomings are on defense and OL. A ball control offense (the complete opposite of what Manning runs) Protects the defense, and a mobile QB hides the OL woes.

To the second part, I never said anything about Manning leading us to a Super Bowl in a year. But I do think our chances are a hell of a lot higher with him, and any sane person who's thinking clearly would agree with me.

There's a 2-3 year window with Manning. If you're being "sane" you better be talking about a title in that time period.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

a mobile QB hides the OL woes.

If you don't realize that a QB with a quick release does TONS more to help out an OL than a guy who runs around, then you are simply football ignorant.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

Not at all true. The majority of this teams shortcomings are on defense and OL. A ball control offense (the complete opposite of what Manning runs) Protects the defense, and a mobile QB hides the OL woes.

Well, first downs and scoring, things the Tebow offense mostly struggled with, help the defense even more than "ball control". The best thing an offense can do is score, and I'm willing to bet a healthy Manning is going to dramatically increase the scoring. Some of you guys get way too hung up on TOP. It's about scoring!

Originally Posted by Dedhed

There's a 2-3 year window with Manning. If you're being "sane" you better be talking about a title in that time period.

I'm not as worried about the "window" as many seem to be. Again, we're better in that window with a healthy Manning than with Tebow. I don't think EFX believes in Tebow, so they're using Manning as the bridge between the now and the QBOTF. They see Manning as a better bridge than Tebow. With Manning we've got a better shot to do something in the short term. No guarantees, but you have to take some risks to achieve anything.

[LetsGoBroncos]

Peter King ‏ @SI_PeterKing
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Denver wants Manning "desperately,'' one competitor for Peyton tells me.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

If you don't realize that a QB with a quick release does TONS more to help out an OL than a guy who runs around, then you are simply football ignorant.

If you don't realize that pass pro is a weakness for this OL, you're very much in the same boat.

DEs didn't even rush Tebow last year. They aren't going to be worried about Manning breaking the Pocket, and out OL cannot stack up to even a decent pass rush.

[ol#7]

Wow, 52 pages arguing over something that has ZERO chance of happening.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

If you don't realize that a QB with a quick release does TONS more to help out an OL than a guy who runs around, then you are simply football ignorant.

Yup. No matter how much you like Tebow if you're of the opinion that this team won't be instantly better with Manning then you're really out of your depth in this discussion. Plus these guys all seem to discount the possibility that the team will do other things to improve via FA, trades and the draft.

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by ol#7

Wow, 52 pages arguing over something that has ZERO chance of happening.

Again with the definitive statements on things about which you lack full information. Say "zero chance" is just stupid. Unlikely? Sure. But there's certainly a chance. You could make a pretty solid case that we're one of the frontrunners right now! That's a hell of a lot better than zero. Why do some of you people even bother?

[TonyR]

Brian Griese makes the case for Peyton Manning in Denver
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 9, 2012, 9:50 AM EST

Brian Griese, the former Denver quarterback who is now the Broncos’ radio color commentator, believes that the Broncos are one of the favorites to land Peyton Manning.

Griese said on Mike and Mike in the Morning that he thinks the Broncos like Manning and that Manning should like the Broncos, and that there’s a good chance of a deal getting done.

“I think it’s very realistic,” Griese said. “More realistic than people would realize.”

One of the reasons for that is the man who ultimately calls the shots in Denver, John Elway, knows from first-hand experience that an older quarterback, even one who may have lost a little bit physically, can win a Super Bowl.

“John Elway won two Super Bowls when he was 37 and 38 in Denver,” Griese said. “I think Denver is certainly in play.”

Griese said he believes Elway will woo Manning by talking up the talent that’s already on the Broncos’ offense, especially left tackle Ryan Clady, and say that the Broncos will be aggressive in upgrading at the areas where they’re lacking. Elway will tell Manning that he’s going to put a Super Bowl-quality roster around him.

“The differentiating factor in Denver will be John Elway and his ability to connect with Peyton Manning,” Griese said.

So what about the man Elway has vowed will be the starter heading into training camp?

“It’s not about Tim Tebow. This is not a situation where Tim Tebow would be cut or released or traded. He’s got three years left on his contract,” Griese said. “This is not a situation where the Broncos are giving up on Tim Tebow. I think this is more about trying to win a Super Bowl with a team that they have now and adding Peyton Manning, and where that puts them in relation to the rest of the league, and the opportunities they have.”

Griese even said he thinks Tebow could get some playing time on the field with Manning.

“Tim Tebow wouldn’t get on the field as much but I still think he could get on the field and play a role with Peyton Manning,” Griese said.

Peyton Manning lining up under center in Denver with fullback Tim Tebow behind him? It might just be crazy enough to work.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ing-in-denver/

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by KO5K

What happens in two/three years when Manning and said FA retire (Wayne, Saturday etc.) and we have nothing to show for the last three years?

We probably don't have a QB, if Elway is going all out on Manning then he needs to give him some talent, you can't waste 1st round/2nd round picks on QBs.

You can say that about ANY quarterback. What happens I two or three years and we have a SB win? Do feel happy about that or do you think we shelved the future for the now?

Drafting right and getting talent is a need with Tebow as well. Drafting a QB in the first two rounds is a waste with either QB at this point.

[TonyR]

^ Based on what Griese is saying, this could be a bridge from now to the QBOTF like I mentioned before. But contrary to what I said that QBOTF could be Tebow.

[ayjackson]

Originally Posted by LetsGoBroncos

Peter King ‏ @SI_PeterKing
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Denver wants Manning "desperately,'' one competitor for Peyton tells me.

Wow, 52 pages arguing over something that has ZERO chance of happening.

juxtaposition

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by LetsGoBroncos

Peter King ‏ @SI_PeterKing
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Denver wants Manning "desperately,'' one competitor for Peyton tells me.

That's pretty huge. Unless King is FOS, those of you who don't think this is real are in profound denial.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by ol#7

Wow, 52 pages arguing over something that has ZERO chance of happening.

STFU till he signs a contarct with another team Denver is in the running.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

If you don't realize that pass pro is a weakness for this OL, you're very much in the same boat.

Your statement does nothing to refute the fact that a great passing QB can mask such weaknesses. Manning's tackles were crap in 2010 and yet he still passed for 4700 yards and was only sacked 16 times. QBs who run around a lot actually tend to get sacked more than pocket passers because they are always trying to extend the play. Believe it or not, the sack rate was twice as high with Tebow than the pocket sloth Orton (10.9% versus 5.5%).