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Old 03-08-2012, 07:39 AM   #626
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Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Virtually every player that gets seriously injured can likely get medically cleared to play again at some point. It doesn't have anything to do with whether they can return to form.

Eddie Mac got cleared to return. But he was never the same.
well once again, you just cited one person and you're assuming that this one person makes your argument. you can cite as many people as you want, but there are certianly people who DO return to form. you have no statistic for the percentages, so you can't argue that manning is more likely to decline. We're talking about one of the greatest ever, even a sharp decline would make him one of the better quarterbacks in the league. This is why you need to trust physicals, doctors, and the workouts that show he has been throwing well.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:41 AM   #627
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he's essentially arguing that because he can name "x" amount of players who have re-injured a medically cleared injury, that medical clearance shouldn't be completely trusted.

obviously i agree to an extent, but i don't agree that it happens to the amount of people that would make peyton manning not worth the risk.

after all, who are we to second guess doctors? they know more than we do, and they know the frequeny rate of re-injuries to the neck. we have nothing as fans. so for me at least, medical clearance = he's good to go.
Brady was cleared to play and he is fine. Montana broke his back and got cleared to play and took a team to the AFC championship game. Both sides could name players all day that had been cleared and produced or didn't.

This isn't a knee problem, it's a neck problem. I don't think a Dr would clear him if it wasn't safe for him to play.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:44 AM   #628
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You can't follow a simple conversation. You are an idiot.
good thought, dude....way to contribute

not a single independent thought has ever come across your keyboard.....you are a black hole of logic....you are the argument for the atomic bomb

but please, keep it up
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:48 AM   #629
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good thought, dude....way to contribute

not a single independent thought has ever come across your keyboard.....you are a black hole of logic....you are the argument for the atomic bomb

but please, keep it up
Fine, people didn't claim Manning would have no trouble with the defender running free. All of those posts are in my imagination. What is weird is, multiple other posters are commenting on them. I must have made up those responses as well!

It isn't surprising that you would defend the idiot. You read at the same second grade level...
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:49 AM   #630
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well once again, you just cited one person and you're assuming that this one person makes your argument. you can cite as many people as you want, but there are certianly people who DO return to form. you have no statistic for the percentages, so you can't argue that manning is more likely to decline. We're talking about one of the greatest ever, even a sharp decline would make him one of the better quarterbacks in the league. This is why you need to trust physicals, doctors, and the workouts that show he has been throwing well.
I'm not saying anything about being medically cleared to play, other than it's not meant to be a gauge of the quality of recovery. Only whether it's comparatively "safe" (if there is such a thing) to keep playing. You're the ones that keep touting it as if it means Peyton will be the same QB he was.

It has nothing to do with that. He could have his right arm amputated and be medically cleared to play.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:50 AM   #631
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For his career, Manning maybe had, on average, the best pass protecting O-line in the game.


He threw for 4700 with Charlie Johnson and Ryan Diem playing tackle. Both were horrible that year. Diem was just about the worst tackle in the league.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:51 AM   #632
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I'm not saying anything about being medically cleared to play, other than it's not meant to be a gauge of the quality of recovery. Only whether it's comparatively "safe" (if there is such a thing) to keep playing.
when a doctor medically clears a player, he is telling the team that it is safe to play. no self respecting doctor would ever allow a player to continue to play if he was at a medium to large risk of re-injury. that's part of their job in medically clearing 100% of the time, analyzing future risk.

as for the arm amputation, we're obviously dealing with the neck. he's working out and showing his stuff, and there's no evidence to indicate he won't be at the same level other than a few players who haven't made it. same goes for any injury. let the physical clearance determine everything. if the neck is healed, it will function normally.

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Updating a previous item, doctors have told San Diego Chargers OG Kris Dielman (concussion) that the quality of his life will be much better if he decides to retire after sustaining a concussion in October that led to a seizure. A decision has not been made, but Dielman is leaning toward retiring.

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=772...#ixzz1oXbXobzE
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:53 AM   #633
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He threw for 4700 with Charlie Johnson and Ryan Diem playing tackle. Both were horrible that year. Diem was just about the worst tackle in the league.
Even bob knows that is the dumbest statement ever.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:54 AM   #634
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Even bob knows that is the dumbest statement ever.
i just had to ****ing rep bob for that.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:59 AM   #635
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good thought, dude....way to contribute

not a single independent thought has ever come across your keyboard.....you are a black hole of logic....you are the argument for the atomic bomb
This is his shtick. It's the style of discourse he has with everyone he disagrees with. Same song and dance every time.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:02 AM   #636
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This is his shtick. It's the style of discourse he has with everyone he disagrees with. Same song and dance every time.
Nope, only the morons. I could see why you and vance are confused about this though...
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:03 AM   #637
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He threw for 4700 with Charlie Johnson and Ryan Diem playing tackle. Both were horrible that year. Diem was just about the worst tackle in the league.
Yeah, a 10 year starter and this guy:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ide-protector/

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While catching up on a hectic morning and early afternoon, I tripped over an e-mail from the Vikings that eventually made my jaw drop.

At first, it didnít drop. Because I assumed that the there must be another tackle named Charlie Johnson, other than the one that plays left tackle for the Colts. You know, the one who started 15 games at left tackle for the Colts last year, protecting Peyton Manningís blind side.

After donating a few page views to the billionaires at Google, it was then clear that the Vikings had swiped Johnson away from the Colts, even though the Colts had hoped to keep him.
You are to football debates as the Chiefs are to Playoff Wins.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:04 AM   #638
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Even bob knows that is the dumbest statement ever.
Tebow hatas and Chefs fans UNITE! (in ill-informed commentary)
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:13 AM   #639
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Tebow hatas and Chefs fans UNITE! (in ill-informed commentary)
Ha ha I don't hate Tebow. I just know he isn't as good as Manning. Find one post where I said Tebow sucks lol.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:20 AM   #640
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Yeah, a 10 year starter and this guy:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ide-protector/



You are to football debates as the Chiefs are to Playoff Wins.
Ha ha pro football focus rated him as a -12.4 last year and said he was the teams biggest weakness on the OLine. He blows dude.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:24 AM   #641
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Meltdown in progress, too funny
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:31 AM   #642
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Yeah, a 10 year starter and this guy:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ide-protector/



You are to football debates as the Chiefs are to Playoff Wins.
They both ****ing suck. Diem had a -25.6 ranking on PFF that year. Charlie Johnson was -8.6.

Pieces of ****. The Chiefs raped Indy's OL in 2010 and nearly beat them because the tackles were so awful. Diem alone gave up like 10 pressures.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:32 AM   #643
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Yeah, a 10 year starter and this guy:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ide-protector/



You are to football debates as the Chiefs are to Playoff Wins.
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Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
Ha ha pro football focus rated him as a -12.4 last year and said he was the teams biggest weakness on the OLine. He blows dude.

This can be settled by looking up what fans who watch him have to say

http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/show...harlie+johnson
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:36 AM   #644
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Ha ha pro football focus rated him as a -12.4 last year and said he was the teams biggest weakness on the OLine. He blows dude.
Is this THE PRO FOOTBALL FOCUS that rated Kuper as one of the worst left guards in football? And has Denver's O-Line ranked 30th?

Sounds like a dream scenario for Peyton Manning to win Trophieses.

Last edited by BroncoBeavis; 03-08-2012 at 08:39 AM..
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:38 AM   #645
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This can be settled by looking up what fans who watch him have to say
Yeah, I find that the most unbiased opinions come from fan message boards. We prove that day in and day out.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:38 AM   #646
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The thing with Miami, who people peg as the frontrunner, is does he really 1) want to play the Pats twice a year/have much lower odds of winning the division/making the playoffs 2) join a team in year 1 of a new coaching staff/makeover?

Again, Denver doesn't offer a ton more in proven stability, but Fox has one year under his belt (and many more as a HC) and our division is dog****.
I think that is actually an advantage for Miami. He comes in and implements his OFFENSE from the get go.

Don't get me wrong, I wish he would be in Denver. I just don't see it happening.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:40 AM   #647
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there probably just as many examples of players who were cleared and were fine from them on out. citing 3, heck, even 10 players does not mean a thing if you don't have any clue about the size of the "study." It could be that 10% of players with manning's deal bounce back, or it could be 90%. but reaching into your memory and pulling out 3 name doesn't make it any more factual that manning is a risk. doctors know more than you or me. medical clearance is medical clearance.

edit: peyton manning has a similar effect to tom brady. both made their lines vastly better. why? you can't blitz them, or they'll gouge you with their intelligence and immediately hit the checkdown/guy who is open. you can't not blitz, though, or they will gouge you anyway. so you have to blitz. but they just get rid of the ball fast anyway.

manning made his team amazing. colts were tied for the best sack allowing team in 10. dropped to 17th without manning, without any vast changes in lineup. team also went from a contender to the worst.
I believe the number is zero, as in zero people have come back from 4 neck surgeries to play again. Maybe Manning is the exception.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:47 AM   #648
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I believe the number is zero, as in zero people have come back from 4 neck surgeries to play again. Maybe Manning is the exception.
On the contrary, zero have not returned from 4 neck injuries. Maybe manning isn't the exception?
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:57 AM   #649
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I'm relieved someone injected PFF's player evaluations into the discussion as an attempt to legitimize their POV

































(Lol jk)
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:59 AM   #650
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This is awesome!!! We are talking about an all out fan cluster**** reaction here. And it is not confined to Denver. Sports radio in Dallas is having the same debate as is probably almost every other NFL city minus the elite QB franchises. Thunderdome it is!!!! And no he is not coming here. combo of lite rail plus insider source told me.
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