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Old 02-01-2012, 07:11 AM   #326
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There ain't no division you can win with 6 wins, though.

Cam played on a bad team, but he himself showed an amazing ability to not win games. There were many times where I thought for sure they'd win, and he would disappear and finish out with a whimper.

He'll get better. But that's on him. Stats aren't everything.
Yup. People are actually falling for the Orton again. We just watched this exact same type of performance screw this team for over two years. Put up pretty stats but never finish the game. Football is all about what you do late in the game. The majority of games will ne close. Guys that pull out the close games late, are the guys with good records. Cam turned it over a ton and was not at all clutch.
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:46 AM   #327
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There ain't no division you can win with 6 wins, though.

Cam played on a bad team, but he himself showed an amazing ability to not win games. There were many times where I thought for sure they'd win, and he would disappear and finish out with a whimper.

He'll get better. But that's on him. Stats aren't everything.
The team won 1 game the year before. Both QB's improved the overall record of the team from the year before. That's all you can ask for when your team is picking in the top 5 from the year before.
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:06 AM   #328
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Who cares what people though as they were coming out of college? Brady went in the 6th...

Tebow took the second worst team in the league to a playoff win. He did this after being spotted a 1-4 record. Cam started from day one and lost a ton with the worst team in the league. Tebow easily outperformed Newton. Both have a lot of growing to do though. It really isn't about right now. What really matters is what each develops into after a few years of experience.
I think both QB's have tremendous upside. I think the downside of Cam though was shown in the way he packed it in and showed huge character issues at UF. The time will come, likely next year, when he'll face serious personal adversity. If he reacts the way he did @ UF, he'll have a hard time making it in the NFL.

Meanwhile that week before the PIT game had to have been unbearable for Tebow. It was hard to stomach some of that **** even as a fan. We gave a kid a 1-4 team. He eeks them into the playoffs, and (setting aside the OM) the media spends all week talking about benching him during his first playoff game for Brady Quinn. Brady Quinn.

Tebow comes out firing, despite another completely lackluster offensive plan and puts out the best game of his career. While Mike n Mike were predicting it would be his last game as a Bronco.

Think about that. You can't draft that kind of poise. You don't know it until you see it. Had a Steeler fan basically tell me after that game. "Tebow just has 'IT'" Big Ben has "IT" Tom Brady has "IT" You can't even put a finger on what 'IT' is, but Tebow has 'IT' You put the game in Tebow's hands at the end, and good things are going to happen"

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Old 02-01-2012, 09:20 AM   #329
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Tebow comes out firing, despite another completely lackluster offensive plan and puts out the best game of his career.
--
Absolutely, Tebow checked off an audibled on those passes.
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:26 AM   #330
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Tebow comes out firing, despite another completely lackluster offensive plan and puts out the best game of his career.
--
Absolutely, Tebow checked off an audibled on those passes.
the first one, the huge one on third down that turned the entire game around was a scramble drill. That's impressive for a young qb in his first playoff game. Thats.what winners do. They make impactful plays when it matters most.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:09 AM   #331
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Who cares what people thought as they were coming out of college?
This whole thread cares ... the argument (such as it is) centers on their collegiate performances, and which guy was helped more by his supporting cast.

Dumb duuumb argument ... supporting casts are completely irrelevant. NFL scouts know QB talent when they see it. Ryan Fitzpatrick is from Harvard, John Skelton from Fordham, Cutler from Vanderbilt, Tarvaris from I don't even know ... Kurt Warner was from nowhere and Flacco was a Blue freaking Hen fervevvinsake.


And yeeeeeees Dedhed, Cam watched Tim in the playoffs. Why? Saints >>> Raiders, Falcons >>> Chargers.

Tebow's win streak was a thrill ride, but he shat the bed in the finale against the chefs. Just 3 points on 6/22 for 50 yards - at home - against a bad team - with the division and playoffs on the line ... that's a train wreck. Of course, the faithful among us know that loss was a lesson in humilty for Tim ... to shake Kyle Orton's hand in shame after such a horrific performance. But then (of course), thirty minutes later, the clouds parted and our Saviour smiled yet again upon him. And magically everyone forgot all about 6-22 ... what might have been the worst game by a starting QB in franchise history: 6-22 for 50 yards and just 3 points against a bad team ... in a huge game at home - in which both the defense and ground game were solid.

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Old 02-01-2012, 10:14 AM   #332
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This whole thread cares ... the argument (such as it is) centers on their collegiate performances, and which guy was helped more by his supporting cast.

Dumb duuumb argument ... supporting casts are completely irrelevant. NFL scouts know QB talent when they see it. Ryan Fitzpatrick is from Harvard, John Skelton from Fordham, Cutler from Vanderbilt, Tarvaris from I don't even know ... Kurt Warner was from nowhere and Flacco was a Blue freaking Hen fervevvinsake.


And yeeeeeees Dedhed, Cam watched Tim in the playoffs. Why? Saints >>> Raiders, Falcons >>> Chargers.

Tebow's win streak was a thrill ride, but he shat the bed in the finale against the chefs. Just 3 points on 6/22 for 50 yards - at home - against a bad team - with the division and playoffs on the line ... that's a train wreck. Of course, the faithful among us know that loss was a lesson in humilty for Tim ... to shake Kyle Orton's hand in shame after such a horrific performance. But then (of course), thirty minutes later, the clouds parted and our Saviour smiled yet again upon him. And magically everyone forgot all about 6-22.
NFL scouts know QBs, which is why Leaf was a top pick and Brady went in the sixth. So, again, who cares what their pre draft grades were?

No one forgot that performance. Smart people just realize young players have bad days. Newton did the same against very basic pro bowl defenses.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:16 AM   #333
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Some teams have to play in a division that takes more then 8 games to win it.
So the Panthers won enough games to win the AFC West? Derp.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:20 AM   #334
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what might have been the worst game by a starting QB in franchise history: 6-22 for 50 yards and just 3 points against a bad team ... in a huge game at home - in which both the defense and ground game were solid.

Almost like when KO went 9/28 against the Chiefs the year before, got benched shortly after, then returned to glory (after his trade fell through) only to redeem himself by going 1-4, and opening the season against Oakland with as many points off his turnovers as his offense was able to muster.

Almost like it... I guess because Tebow put together a great game in response. Orton just Ortoned all over himself.

Rookies are known to have bad games like that. Not sure what your boy KO's excuse was.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:23 AM   #335
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And magically everyone forgot all about 6-22 ... what might have been the worst game by a starting QB in franchise history: 6-22 for 50 yards and just 3 points against a bad team ... in a huge game at home - in which both the defense and ground game were solid.
Maybe because a week later he played his best game of his career and won this franchise only it's second playoff win in the last decade...
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:29 AM   #336
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No one forgot that performance. Smart people just realize young players have bad days. Newton did the same against very basic pro bowl defenses.
That was more than a "bad day." I just edited my post to add the reality it may have been the worst performance by a starting quarterback in franchise history. 6-22 and 50 yards - 3 total points - in a huge game - at home - against a bad team. AND in a game where both the defense and ground game came through solid.

The amnesia/excuse abuse for that game, it's fine I suppose, so be it. But I'm puzzled by the contrast between Tebow treatment and Cutler treatment. A Cutler game in 2008 in a VERY similar situation - Week 16 or 17 - at home - against the lowly Bills - with the division and playoffs on the line. Jay threw for a ton of yards and we were ahead, but the defense gave up a couple late 4th quarter TDs and we lost. People SAVAGED poor Jaybee cause he didn't march right down the field Elway-style and save the day. I mean people DAMNED and CURSED poor Jay-bee. Weird.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:33 AM   #337
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The amnesia/excuse abuse for that game, it's fine I suppose, so be it. But I'm puzzled by the contrast between Tebow treatment and Cutler treatment. A Cutler game in 2008 in a VERY similar situation - Week 16 or 17 - at home - against the lowly Bills - with the division and playoffs on the line. Jay threw for a ton of yards and we were ahead, but the defense gave up a couple late 4th quarter TDs and we lost. People SAVAGED poor Jaybee cause he didn't march right down the field Elway-style and save the day. I mean people DAMNED and CURSED poor Jay-bee. Weird.
Because that was the last memory of that season. If the Raiders had beaten the Chargers I'm certain Tebow would still being slaughtered for that performance.

But Tebow had a chance to redeem himself the week after, he did that and more...
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:33 AM   #338
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That was more than a "bad day." I just edited my post to add the reality it may have been the worst performance by a starting quarterback in franchise history. 6-22 and 50 yards - 3 total points - in a huge game - at home - against a bad team. AND in a game where both the defense and ground game came through solid.

The amnesia/excuse abuse for that game, it's fine I suppose, so be it. But I'm puzzled by the contrast between Tebow treatment and Cutler treatment. A Cutler game in 2008 in a VERY similar situation - Week 16 or 17 - at home - against the lowly Bills - with the division and playoffs on the line. Jay threw for a ton of yards and we were ahead, but the defense gave up a couple late 4th quarter TDs and we lost. People SAVAGED poor Jaybee cause he didn't march right down the field Elway-style and save the day. I mean people DAMNED and CURSED poor Jay-bee. Weird.
Tebow led this team to it's first playoff win in 6 years, and people are still cursing him.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:39 AM   #339
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Tebow led this team to it's first playoff win in 6 years, and people are still cursing him.
Very very few cursed Tebow, while on the other hand we were just a couple bodies shy of a lynch mob for Cutler that day. And you say "still" cursing him ... like I said, I don't remember much if any cursing. Although that's partly/largely because the Fade loss came just a few minutes later and we were in.

You and KO5 make a good point ,,, despite what I'm saying here, I don't curse Tebow for the chefs game because the Steelers OT, I think it makes my Top 10 alltime best Bronco finishes. Which is saying a lot.

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Old 02-01-2012, 10:43 AM   #340
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That was more than a "bad day." I just edited my post to add the reality it may have been the worst performance by a starting quarterback in franchise history. 6-22 and 50 yards - 3 total points - in a huge game - at home - against a bad team. AND in a game where both the defense and ground game came through solid.

The amnesia/excuse abuse for that game, it's fine I suppose, so be it. But I'm puzzled by the contrast between Tebow treatment and Cutler treatment. A Cutler game in 2008 in a VERY similar situation - Week 16 or 17 - at home - against the lowly Bills - with the division and playoffs on the line. Jay threw for a ton of yards and we were ahead, but the defense gave up a couple late 4th quarter TDs and we lost. People SAVAGED poor Jaybee cause he didn't march right down the field Elway-style and save the day. I mean people DAMNED and CURSED poor Jay-bee. Weird.
I'd much rather have Tim's Chefs playoff implications performance (in his first season's worth of starts with no offseason, thrown in midseason) than Kyle's end of 2009 effort under similar circumstances where he essentially scored 14 points for the other team with two 2nd half pick-sixes.

Kyle's turnovers were often the difference. That was also the case at the beginning of this season.
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:40 AM   #341
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Very very few cursed Tebow,
Apparently you haven't been on the Mane much.
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:51 AM   #342
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That was more than a "bad day." I just edited my post to add the reality it may have been the worst performance by a starting quarterback in franchise history. 6-22 and 50 yards - 3 total points - in a huge game - at home - against a bad team. AND in a game where both the defense and ground game came through solid.

The amnesia/excuse abuse for that game, it's fine I suppose, so be it. But I'm puzzled by the contrast between Tebow treatment and Cutler treatment. A Cutler game in 2008 in a VERY similar situation - Week 16 or 17 - at home - against the lowly Bills - with the division and playoffs on the line. Jay threw for a ton of yards and we were ahead, but the defense gave up a couple late 4th quarter TDs and we lost. People SAVAGED poor Jaybee cause he didn't march right down the field Elway-style and save the day. I mean people DAMNED and CURSED poor Jay-bee. Weird.
Orton had just as bad of games. You are not living in reality.

You are talking to the wrong person about Cutler hate.
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:53 AM   #343
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Very very few cursed Tebow, while on the other hand we were just a couple bodies shy of a lynch mob for Cutler that day. And you say "still" cursing him ... like I said, I don't remember much if any cursing. Although that's partly/largely because the Fade loss came just a few minutes later and we were in.

You and KO5 make a good point ,,, despite what I'm saying here, I don't curse Tebow for the chefs game because the Steelers OT, I think it makes my Top 10 alltime best Bronco finishes. Which is saying a lot.
What? There were a lot of people claiming Tebow was finished after that game...
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:56 AM   #344
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Apparently you haven't been on the Mane much.
I wasn't around much for awhile there (between the Josh debacle in London and training camp this year), but I was referring specifically to very little cursing of Tebow for the KC game. Though admittedly that was largely because the Fade choked just a few minutes later, rendering Tebow's performance irrelevant, because we were in anyway. Glad I could clear that up.
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:56 AM   #345
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I wasn't around much for awhile there (between Josh's London cheating scandal and training camp this year), but I was referring specifically to very little cursing of Tebow for the KC game. Though admittedly that was largely because the fade choked just a few minutes later, rendering Tebow's performance irrelevant, because we were in. Glad I could clear that up.
Again, there were a lot of people claiming he was finished. There was a lot of hate for that game. I can bump some threads if you like.

It is pretty obvious that you weren't here as you claim to know what was going on...
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:07 PM   #346
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It is pretty obvious that you weren't here as you claim to know what was going on...
You do realize this isn't the only place where Tebow and the Broncos are discussed, don't you?


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Again, there were a lot of people claiming he was finished. There was a lot of hate for that game. I can bump some threads if you like.
That doesn't make much sense ... no, don't bump threads, but It'd be pretty weird if people griped about Tebow even one-tenth as much as they talked about the Steelers, the upcoming playoff game and the division title. Like I said: as bad as he played, 30 minutes later it didn't matter. His performance became utterly irrelevant to the team's fate.
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:16 PM   #347
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You do realize this isn't the only place where Tebow and the Broncos are discussed, don't you?




That doesn't make much sense ... no, don't bump threads, but It'd be pretty weird if people griped about Tebow even one-tenth as much as they talked about the Steelers, the upcoming playoff game and the division title. Like I said: as bad as he played, 30 minutes later it didn't matter. His performance became utterly irrelevant to the team's fate.
You do realize even a lot of the media was claiming he was going to get benched for Quinn, right? This forum blew up with many claiming Tebow was finished. What, you found one forum that didn't care and feel this makes us wrong?

Where exactly were you that week? Cuba?

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Old 02-01-2012, 02:03 PM   #348
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You do realize even a lot of the media was claiming he was going to get benched for Quinn, right?
Nobody credible reported there was any chance he'd be benched that week, though there was talk he might be yanked mid-game if he played poorly. jhns, if you want to marginalize/belittle somebody you disagree with, and you have a round or two in your belt, don't overplay it. Nobody with credibility reported he would be not start against the Steelers.


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This forum blew up with many claiming Tebow was finished. What, you found one forum that didn't care and feel this makes us wrong?
You do realize forums are not the the only place where Tebow and the Broncos are discussed, don't you? Besides, I'd never go to another forum. But arrrggghhh, why are we even talking about all this?!? You Tebow people, just face facts:
1: Tebow's quarterbacking skills are sub-par by NFL standards
2: Tebow's intangibles are through the roof
3: It remains to be seen whether:
. . . a) he can develop into an adequate passer, or in the alternative,
. . . b) whether this unique offense we're running can be effective over the long haul.
There, that wasn't so hard (oh and 4: Don't compare Tebow to Newton, it makes you look silly).


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Where exactly were you that week? Cuba?
How DARE you accuse me! As any law-abiding patriot knows, the Freedom to Travel to Cuba Act is stalled in congressional committee. Until it moves through BOTH houses, and is signed into law by PRESIDENT Barack Obama, all of Cuba (save Guantanemo Naval Base) is off limits to any and every self-respecting, law-abiding, flag-waving American. Of which I am one!

You've got some nerve.

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Old 02-01-2012, 02:06 PM   #349
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i think he had a great year.

really the PB is all fluff. The broncos have way more talent around tebow that the panters have around newton IMO.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:12 PM   #350
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Nobody credible reported there was any chance he'd be benched that week, though there was talk he might be yanked mid-game if he played poorly. jhns, if you want to marginalize/belittle somebody you disagree with, and you have a round or two in your belt, don't overplay it. Nobody with credibility reported he would be not start against the Steelers.




You do realize forums are not the the only place where Tebow and the Broncos are discussed, don't you? Besides, I'd never go to another forum. But arrrggghhh, why are we even talking about all this?!? You Tebow people, just face facts:
1: Tebow's quarterbacking skills are sub-par by NFL standards
2: Tebow's intangibles are through the roof
3: It remains to be seen whether:
. . . a) he can develop into an adequate passer, or in the alternative,
. . . b) whether this unique offense we're running can be effective over the long haul.
There, that wasn't so hard (oh and 4: Don't compare Tebow to Newton, it makes you look silly).



How DARE you accuse me! As any law-abiding patriot knows, the Freedom to Travel to Cuba Act is stalled in congressional committee. Until it moves through BOTH houses, and is signed into law by PRESIDENT Barack Obama, all of Cuba (save Guantanemo Naval Base) is off limits to any and every self-respecting, law-abiding, flag-waving American. Of which I am one!

You've got some nerve.
None of that changes the fact that there were a **** ton of people fraking out about that game. Rational people didn't freak out about Cutlers earlier performance. I know I didn't.

I agree with a lot of the middle of this post. Tebow is better than Newton right now though. His style of play leads to more wins. We don't make the playoffs with Newton. The defense wouldn't have held up.

I actually thought we could travel to Cuba now. Shows how much I pay attention.
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