The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-30-2011, 09:59 PM   #1
teknic
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default You know what?... I liked the playcalling.

I've seen a lot of criticism of McCoy, some deserved and some not, after the loss today. I liked what he was trying to do with Tebow, but he failed to make adjustments when it wasn't working. He gave Tebow a bunch of throws out of the gun, and a lot of 2wr reads for him. There were some slants and posts, and plenty of play-action. I even saw a designed roll-out with a flood to the left.

After 2 games with Tebow, Mccoy has significantly stepped up his playcalling. It wasn't perfect, and we obviously didn't execute, but I liked what I saw from him. I wish he had mixed in a few drags and screens when they were sitting on the slants, but compared to the Miami game, the playcalling was phenomenal.

There were plays to be made on the field today, and I put the blame for our pathetic offense into three categories: dismal protection from the offensive line, terrible throws from Tebow, and an awful performance by our WRs. I never thought the Broncos would miss Lloyd as much as they did today, I was hoping the young receivers could step right in. Tebow was unable to move the offense for much of the game, and I saw entirely too many three and outs.

On the plays where the receivers got separation, the offensive line (looking at you Franklin) blew their assignments. When the offensive line gave Tebow a clean pocket, the receivers were either well covered or dropped very catchable balls. When the offensive line held their blocks and the receivers were open, Tebow was either running around frantically, or completely missing the throw. It was that bad today.

But hey, the sky isn't falling. We were never going to be a playoff team this season. Not even if you got down on one knee and started praying. Tebow just started his fifth game in the NFL. I can think of many great quarterbacks in the NFL that struggled early in their career. I don't know if Tebow will end up being a great QB in the NFL, but I'm not ready to give up on him yet. Let's give him the season to sink or swim, which I thought was the plan anyways. Evaluate Tebow over the entire season, giving him more and more game experience to improve. Once Tebow plays a few games, he should be able to acclimate to the NFL coverages and speed of the defenders, and we should have a better idea of if he can be the quarterback of the Broncos going forward. And perhaps if McCoy's playcalling continues to improve and he learns how to work with Tebow, maybe we can manage more than 10 points.
  Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 10-30-2011, 10:02 PM   #2
Agamemnon
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

So you think the playcalling has improved? Really? Not sure what to say to that...
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 10:04 PM   #3
Ronnie Tsunami
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

YOU PROVIDE FACTS SO I WILL COUNTER WITH NO SUBSTANTIAL ARGUMENT.

INSERT ROLL EYES ICON / ROFL ICON HERE

WHAT GAME WERE YOU WATCHING, MORON?

*Waits 3 minutes for posse to invade thread and blindly back me up*

Seriously though, nice informative post. Just expect the above to happen. Soon.

Edit: oop... beat me to it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 10:06 PM   #4
TheChamp24
Future HOF...CHAMP BAILEY
 
TheChamp24's Avatar
 
The Legend

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Broncos Country
Posts: 5,504
Default

TheChamp24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 10:15 PM   #5
theAPAOps5
A new beginning!
 
theAPAOps5's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 30,294

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Watermock - RIP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jameson View Post
YOU PROVIDE FACTS SO I WILL COUNTER WITH NO SUBSTANTIAL ARGUMENT.

INSERT ROLL EYES ICON / ROFL ICON HERE

WHAT GAME WERE YOU WATCHING, MORON?

*Waits 3 minutes for posse to invade thread and blindly back me up*

Seriously though, nice informative post. Just expect the above to happen. Soon.

Edit: oop... beat me to it.
You weren't good in school were you?
theAPAOps5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 10:16 PM   #6
maher_tyler
Ring of Famer
 
maher_tyler's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 6,209

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Champ Bailey
Default

I strongly disagree! Our offense is about as predictable as it gets. We run on first down way to much. Every time we were spread out with no RB in the back field It was a QB draw! No TE seam routes or any type of plays to try to get them involved at all. Nobody even chipping/helping out Franklin! Clearly struggling to block his guy all game! We might not have much talent but there is zero creativity to try and get guys open! Hense what Detroit did with CJ!
maher_tyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 11:23 PM   #7
Popps
TEAM FIRST.
 
Popps's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
So you think the playcalling has improved? Really? Not sure what to say to that...
That's not a surprise because he laid out a logical argument using truths and facts instead of random hyperbole.
Popps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 11:27 PM   #8
TDmvp
Ring of Famer
 
TDmvp's Avatar
 
This ones for Pat...

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,382
Default

TDmvp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 11:33 PM   #9
Agamemnon
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
That's not a surprise because he laid out a logical argument using truths and facts instead of random hyperbole.
Fact: McCoy failed to call screens, max protect, or have a TE help Franklin, and therefore did nothing to counter Detroit's pass rush.

Fact: McCoy continuously called slow developing pass plays despite a clear inability to provide adequate protection for Tebow.

Fact: McCoy once again fell into a rut of running on most 1st downs, and was completely predictable based on formation.

But you keep ****ing that chicken...
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 11:42 PM   #10
Blart
I'm gay for the Broncos!
 
Blart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,910

Adopt-a-Bronco:
all @ same time
Default

We ran option plays today, can't get more Tebow than that.
Blart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 11:46 PM   #11
Popps
TEAM FIRST.
 
Popps's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blart View Post
We ran option plays today, can't get more Tebow than that.
Dude you're clueless. There is an entire section of our playbook dedicated to QBs that can't hit the side of a barn. See, you have to get them into a "rhythm.".
Eventually, he only misses guys by 3 yards instead of five.

McCoy just refused to use these winning plays because he's obviously in on the conspiracy.
Popps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 11:52 PM   #12
TDmvp
Ring of Famer
 
TDmvp's Avatar
 
This ones for Pat...

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,382
Default

Tebow was the suck , and the play calling sucked just as bad.

Our coaches should really go back and watch film of how we used Jake Plummer.

A lot of that same stuff would be suited to help Tim.

Bootleg Pa not slow developing straight back Pa. , but roll outs where you give him half field reads and the option to run and more slants and crosses moving toward the side you roll to. That style of O also cause De's to think and play contain a lot instead of rushing which would EDIT (could) help our running game.


Tim is no where near the Qb Jake was at his best at this point , but I think a lot of the same stuff that made Jake get the best out of himself would maybe work with Tim.

Last edited by TDmvp; 10-30-2011 at 11:56 PM..
TDmvp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 12:15 AM   #13
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
Dude you're clueless. There is an entire section of our playbook dedicated to QBs that can't hit the side of a barn. See, you have to get them into a "rhythm.".
Eventually, he only misses guys by 3 yards instead of five.

McCoy just refused to use these winning plays because he's obviously in on the conspiracy.

Yes. The issue is Tebow. Not the horrid protection or predictability of the offense. Clearly Tebow and Tebow alone is responsible for getting sacked 7 times, having his receivers drop at minimum 5 passes or calling runs 75% of the goddamn time on first down.

All his fault.

Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 01:06 AM   #14
maher_tyler
Ring of Famer
 
maher_tyler's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 6,209

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Champ Bailey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
Yes. The issue is Tebow. Not the horrid protection or predictability of the offense. Clearly Tebow and Tebow alone is responsible for getting sacked 7 times, having his receivers drop at minimum 5 passes or calling runs 75% of the goddamn time on first down.

All his fault.

Sometimes he just needs to get rid of the ball. Running around trying to improvise will work once in awhile but more times than not, bad things happen when he's running all over the place. Our oline would probably have a hard time blocking a manicin(sp?)..plays usually end up in sacks or holding penalties!
maher_tyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 01:18 AM   #15
ol#7
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

I thought he did get rid of the ball early in the ballgame and was pretty accurate through the first 3/4 of the game (putting the ball in the right place even though there wasnt much to show for it), but we had alot of low percentage type throws called (deep passes on 3rd and long).

I have never seen a WR give less effort than Eddie Royal lately, D.Thomas has this habit as well.

I also saw KM turn sideways and look at the end coming around before hitting the line. W.T.F.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 01:46 AM   #16
BroncoMan4ever
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoMan4ever's Avatar
 
That's just like your opinion, man

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 13,350

Adopt-a-Bronco:
VIRGIL GREEN!!!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDmvp View Post
Tebow was the suck , and the play calling sucked just as bad.

Our coaches should really go back and watch film of how we used Jake Plummer.

A lot of that same stuff would be suited to help Tim.

Bootleg Pa not slow developing straight back Pa. , but roll outs where you give him half field reads and the option to run and more slants and crosses moving toward the side you roll to. That style of O also cause De's to think and play contain a lot instead of rushing which would EDIT (could) help our running game.


Tim is no where near the Qb Jake was at his best at this point , but I think a lot of the same stuff that made Jake get the best out of himself would maybe work with Tim.
i agree with the thought of dust off the old Plummer style offense for Tebow. but with that in mind there are things that Plummer had at his disposal that Tebow just doesn't have.

Plummer had a running game that was pretty damn consistent and ranked in the top 5-10 every year he played which took pressure off of him and allowed the playaction to work to its absolute best. Tebow has Moreno and Ball for the next few weeks, don't expect the play action plays to work all that well when the defense doesn't have to respect the run.

another thing Plummer had that Tebow doesn't. an opportunistic defense that was decent at forcing turnovers and giving the offense short fields on occasion while also limiting scoring. our current defense can't cause turnovers worth a **** and today also couldn't stop anyone from scoring.


also, an idea about using Moreno more to his abilities.

Moreno has horrendous field vision. he can seem to find a hole, he has no patience in letting his blocks develop. why not get him the ball in sweeps and toss plays to limit the amount of times he runs into the backs of his linemen when running inside?

his running style is seemingly get the ball and run. no looking for the hole or waiting for the linemen to open one up. avoid that mess and just get him the ball on the outside and let him run that way. play to the strengths he has and quit trying to make him into an inside runner. do that and more screen and dump off passes to him. Moreno is not an elite back and never will be, but if used properly he can still be of some use to the offense instead of the albatross he currently is.
BroncoMan4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 01:52 AM   #17
BroncoMan4ever
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoMan4ever's Avatar
 
That's just like your opinion, man

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 13,350

Adopt-a-Bronco:
VIRGIL GREEN!!!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maher_tyler View Post
Sometimes he just needs to get rid of the ball. Running around trying to improvise will work once in awhile but more times than not, bad things happen when he's running all over the place. Our oline would probably have a hard time blocking a manicin(sp?)..plays usually end up in sacks or holding penalties!
i agree. i love the never say die way he plays, but the running around improvising is going to lead to turnovers and eventually injury for him. i have no problem with him using his mobility to extend a play, but he needs to learn it is ok to cut your losses and just throw it away. instead of ending up taking an unnecessary shot because he keeps holding onto the ball looking for an opening just extend the play long enough to throw it away and avoid the sack if there is nothing available
BroncoMan4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 02:00 AM   #18
Hotwheelz
Perennial Pro-bowler
 
Hotwheelz's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 841
Default

REASON HAS NO PLACE HERE.
Hotwheelz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 02:00 AM   #19
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,794

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Kyle Orton 5 starts 9 sacks
Tim Tebow 2 starts 14 sacks

I think Tebow is winning the RZ turnover battle as well.
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 03:26 AM   #20
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,823
Default

Bronco fan logic 101

plays that work = great play calling
plays that don't = crappy play calling.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 03:43 AM   #21
The Joker
Ring of Famer
 
The Joker's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,275

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

I tend to agree with the people saying that I'm not sure what exactly we could be doing differently from a playcalling perspective to get better production.

Tebow's was absolutely awful yesterday and while I do think it's stupid for anyone to write him off after just two starts, looking to blame it on absolutely anybody and everybody else is even more ridiculous.

He needs to improve A LOT between now and the end of the year, otherwise we'll quite rightly be looking for a new QB in the offseason.
The Joker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 04:24 AM   #22
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,055
Default

1. McCoy didn't adjust to Cunningham bringing in blitzes the entire first half. We failed to go into max protect, even when it was clear Franklin/Beadles were getting overwhelmed.

2. On the fumble that led to Detroit recovering for a TD it was Franklin who allowed his guy to get past him and ofcourse, the revolving door we have in Beadles that completely whiffed on his block allowing the defender to get a clear shot at Tebow.

3. Yet no screens, delayed hand offs, TEs flaring out into the zones left by blitzers for a quick easy pass, no shallow crossing routes when the middle was empty because LBs/Safeties were blitzing. McCoy went Mike Martz. Go for the longer developing plays to Decker/Thomas along the sidelines and expect a young QB to stay in the pocket and take hits to complete those longer passes. That is a$$ and typical Mike Martz type of crap.

4. I didn't see (could be wrong) any designed rollouts, bootlegs, or stretch plays where Tebow rolls one way and the RB goes the other. All plays that are DESIGNED to take advantage of an over aggressive front 7 bringing the house on blitzes.

5. No quick passes to WRs at the line until 4-5 minutes left in the game where our bigger WRs like Decker/Thomas could run over defenders. Again plays that are designed to take advantage of defenders stacking the middle.

I'm not saying all of this is on McCoy, Tebow had some bad passes and the OL had it's worst performance all year. But the job of the OC is to counter an over aggressive defense.

McCoy failed to do that.
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 04:49 AM   #23
ShutDownPoster
raging lurker
 
ShutDownPoster's Avatar
 
JUSTICE is served!!

Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teknic View Post
I've seen a lot of criticism of McCoy, some deserved and some not, after the loss today. I liked what he was trying to do with Tebow, but he failed to make adjustments when it wasn't working. He gave Tebow a bunch of throws out of the gun, and a lot of 2wr reads for him. There were some slants and posts, and plenty of play-action. I even saw a designed roll-out with a flood to the left.

After 2 games with Tebow, Mccoy has significantly stepped up his playcalling. It wasn't perfect, and we obviously didn't execute, but I liked what I saw from him. I wish he had mixed in a few drags and screens when they were sitting on the slants, but compared to the Miami game, the playcalling was phenomenal.

There were plays to be made on the field today, and I put the blame for our pathetic offense into three categories: dismal protection from the offensive line, terrible throws from Tebow, and an awful performance by our WRs. I never thought the Broncos would miss Lloyd as much as they did today, I was hoping the young receivers could step right in. Tebow was unable to move the offense for much of the game, and I saw entirely too many three and outs.

On the plays where the receivers got separation, the offensive line (looking at you Franklin) blew their assignments. When the offensive line gave Tebow a clean pocket, the receivers were either well covered or dropped very catchable balls. When the offensive line held their blocks and the receivers were open, Tebow was either running around frantically, or completely missing the throw. It was that bad today.

But hey, the sky isn't falling. We were never going to be a playoff team this season. Not even if you got down on one knee and started praying. Tebow just started his fifth game in the NFL. I can think of many great quarterbacks in the NFL that struggled early in their career. I don't know if Tebow will end up being a great QB in the NFL, but I'm not ready to give up on him yet. Let's give him the season to sink or swim, which I thought was the plan anyways. Evaluate Tebow over the entire season, giving him more and more game experience to improve. Once Tebow plays a few games, he should be able to acclimate to the NFL coverages and speed of the defenders, and we should have a better idea of if he can be the quarterback of the Broncos going forward. And perhaps if McCoy's playcalling continues to improve and he learns how to work with Tebow, maybe we can manage more than 10 points.
ShutDownPoster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 05:14 AM   #24
ColoradoDarin
Not Too Shabby Poster
 
ColoradoDarin's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Unsettled, NC
Posts: 7,636

Adopt-a-Bronco:
T J Ward
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
1. McCoy didn't adjust to Cunningham bringing in blitzes the entire first half. We failed to go into max protect, even when it was clear Franklin/Beadles were getting overwhelmed.

2. On the fumble that led to Detroit recovering for a TD it was Franklin who allowed his guy to get past him and ofcourse, the revolving door we have in Beadles that completely whiffed on his block allowing the defender to get a clear shot at Tebow.

3. Yet no screens, delayed hand offs, TEs flaring out into the zones left by blitzers for a quick easy pass, no shallow crossing routes when the middle was empty because LBs/Safeties were blitzing. McCoy went Mike Martz. Go for the longer developing plays to Decker/Thomas along the sidelines and expect a young QB to stay in the pocket and take hits to complete those longer passes. That is a$$ and typical Mike Martz type of crap.

4. I didn't see (could be wrong) any designed rollouts, bootlegs, or stretch plays where Tebow rolls one way and the RB goes the other. All plays that are DESIGNED to take advantage of an over aggressive front 7 bringing the house on blitzes.

5. No quick passes to WRs at the line until 4-5 minutes left in the game where our bigger WRs like Decker/Thomas could run over defenders. Again plays that are designed to take advantage of defenders stacking the middle.

I'm not saying all of this is on McCoy, Tebow had some bad passes and the OL had it's worst performance all year. But the job of the OC is to counter an over aggressive defense.

McCoy failed to do that.
rep
ColoradoDarin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 05:35 AM   #25
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 
All hail Hercules!

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 54,905

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

I thought the playcalling was immaterial. Tebow has very limited NFL level skills. He can't execute even basic NFL requirements of the position such as the quick slant, three step drop or timing routes. He seems to be unable to look beyond a single receiver before bolting out of the pocket. His receivers look like crap because by the time he gets around to them, the timing in their route has passed and now they're free lancing. To make up for Tebow's limited passing skills they would have to create distance between themselves and their coverage that is just not realistic in the NFL. His accuracy is pathetic. His touch on screen passes reminds me of Steve Sax. His spiral is non-existent. His footwork is primitive. He seems unable to read the defense or call out blitz assignments. His pocket awareness is pathetic and he makes up for it with athleticism. It is highly unlikely that, given his limited skill set, he could conduct a 50 yard drive, let alone the kind of 80 yard drives required of an NFL QB. But I can see why it's McCoy's fault. Really.

Last edited by Rohirrim; 10-31-2011 at 05:39 AM..
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:17 AM.


Denver Broncos