We are the 99 Percent

[baja]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

So governments are faultless?

I dont think so.

Inept, a non solution

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by baja

You need to consider the possibility that bankers and global corporations control many of the world governments (I mean have them by the gonads control) in your argument that the government is to blame. They are not if they are controlled to the degree they are a non factor and just doing someone else's bidding.

Yep.

Since the corporatists sirhcyennek81 defends both control and own the government outright, blaming the government is essentially the same thing as blaming his rich friends.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

I wasn't comparing the methods - I was comparing the motives and the outcomes.

?

The American revolution led to a Federal Republic based on the rule of law.

The french revolution led to rule of the mob, thousands died and eventually gave rise to Napoleon.

Totally the same.

[baja]

Read the tag under my screen name.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

So governments are faultless?

I dont think so.

The government is broken.

Why?

Because it's for sale to the highest bidder (read: the rich plutocrats whose interests you defend.)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

The government is broken.

Why?

Because it's for sale to the highest bidder (read: the rich plutocrats whose interests you defend.)

So the solution in your eyes is to steal wealth from one group and give it to government, and that will "fix it"?

Which leads right back to what I said in the first place. You exchange one master for another and consider it a victory. The issue is government, not the wealthy.

[baja]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

So the solution in your eyes is to steal wealth from one group and give it to government, and that will "fix it"?

Which leads right back to what I said in the first place. You exchange one master for another and consider it a victory. The issue is government, not the wealthy.

So how do you propose to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

So the solution in your eyes is to steal wealth from one group and give it to government, and that will "fix it"?

In other words, making the rich pay taxes = "stealing" in your mind.

Glad we cleared that up.

You must have some serious issues with some of the big-time "thieves" in your own party's modern history, e.g., Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, et al.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

?

The American revolution led to a Federal Republic based on the rule of law.

The french revolution led to rule of the mob, thousands died and eventually gave rise to Napoleon.

Totally the same.

These insane socialist liberals like LABF are finally shedding their disguises and revealing themselves as what they are.

They don't want the US revolution, its bill of rights, or its constitution. They want what France got...a bloody revolution that led to one of the most pathetic and self-defeated nations in the history of Europe.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

Which leads right back to what I said in the first place. You exchange one master for another and consider it a victory.

The government isn't supposed to be a "master" - it's supposed to be a body of representatives for "we the people."

You can't defend the ideology that gave us Citizens United and then complain about the outcome.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by epicSocialism4tw

These insane socialist liberals like LABF...

You're lost in straw man land.

Pathetic.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

[cutthemdown]

A girl I know want me to go to a protest in LA this weekend. I think I am going to go just to see what it is like. Im going to bring my own pepper spray in case the cops jump bad on my cause. POWER TO THE PEOPLE.

**** it lets just revolt. I want to just out of curiosity to see if Obama will then demand that he steps down like he did in Egypt and Libya.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

**** it lets just revolt. I want to just out of curiosity to see if Obama will then demand that he steps down like he did in Egypt and Libya.

Why would you want Obama to step down when he's a servant of the same Wall Street masters whose interests you defend?

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Why would you want Obama to step down when he's a servant of the same Wall Street masters whose interests you defend?

How is me saying I am against taking away deductions for people making 200 grand a yr, or couples making 250 grand a yr, make wall street my master?

What makes you think I was for TARP?

I am all for closing the capital gains loophole ceos use to get only 15% on income. I just dont want it closed for investors. Shouldn't be hard to make a rule if the stock comes from a company you are running you get taxed more etc etc. I don't know truthfully LABF I'm not smart enough in economics to know exactly how it all works. I just know Obama lies when he says he only wants to tax millionaires.

Like I said I switched to a small community bank awhile ago. Really though the amount we all pay in tax when you add up state, local, federal really is staggering LABF. I know some rich people they pay a ton of tax. There are probably some rich ceos skirting there fair share, but i dont believe it is some huge pool of revenue.

In Obamas job proposal it is clear over 70% of the new revenue comes from closing the deductions couples making 250 grand, singles making 200 grand a yr. You are flat wrong if you think those people not already paying a ton in tax.

I'd rather see them just spend less money and do something to encourage real job growth. Not just spend money like his first stimulus that did nothing.

Also I am open to punishing banks who broke the law.

Really though unless I am wrong refresh my memory. The bank bailout was TARP right? started under Bush, continued to Obama. What big banks took money and didn't they have to pay it back?

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

In other words, making the rich pay taxes = "stealing" in your mind.

Glad we cleared that up.

You must have some serious issues with some of the big-time "thieves" in your own party's modern history, e.g., Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, et al.

Yeah. Taxation does not equal stealing. No matter how hard you try to do mental gymnastics to make that claim. However, simply taking more money for the sake of taking it IS stealing.

I find it interesting. Your side constantly harps about jobs going overseas, yet the US has the 2nd highest business tax rate in the world. It apparently has never occured to your side that maybe slashing that tax would actually encourage job growth here...which grows the tax base. Its much easier to just squeeze the wealthy. Then you act indignant when they choose to either not invest in expansion or the market, which brings in diminishing returns. And then your side pushes for tax increases. Leads to fewer jobs, more government spending and a need for more revenue. But of course, saying this cycle is stupid and blaming government for it MUST mean I defend the uberrich plutocracy. You have logic fail.

You are the guy who believes installing a new drain in the basement will stop the flooding in a house but conveniently ignore the giant hole in the roof and the busted pipes in the floor. When you have the giant hole pointed out to you, you blame the previous owners. When the pipes are pointed out to you, you blame the lack of regulation at the pipe making factory. In either case, you still do not fix the problem and instead carp that your neighbors have houses that are not flooding and it would be more fair to have them chip in to pay for your new roof and new pipes.

But I'm sure in response I will get a nonsensical political cartoon or some change of subject.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by baja

So how do you propose to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

One piece at a time.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

The government isn't supposed to be a "master" - it's supposed to be a body of representatives for "we the people."

You can't defend the ideology that gave us Citizens United and then complain about the outcome.

A government capable of giving you everything you need is equally capable of taking your rights away. What difference does it make to them at that point? You are completely dependent on the system and will have no incentive to oppose it.

That is what you are proposing. You are arguing for a gigantic federal government that determines how much you make, how long you work, where you live, who you work for, what benefits you get, when you get these benefits, what stores you buy from, what you can buy in those stores, who you can marry, how many kids you can have, what schools those kids can go to, who those kids will learn from (wont be you. gov't knows best), what you can eat, what you can drive, what temperature you keep your home, what you can watch, what you can read, what surgeries you can have and at what age you no longer qualify for those surgeries, what religions you can practice, what you can say, who to vote for.

Governments do not give up power. Its nice to think that "our government wouldnt do that", but that is a total lie. They would in a heartbeat. So you trade your individual authority for government authority to fix the real problems of crony capitalism, and wind up less free because of it. But hey...you get "free" broadband now.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

I find it interesting. Your side constantly harps about jobs going overseas, yet the US has the 2nd highest business tax rate in the world.

When you spout lies and half-truths like the above, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

The data on the US corporate tax rate has been out there for years.

While conservatives focus on the nominal corporate tax rate of 35%, that’s almost a meaningless number compared to the effective tax rate, AKA what corporations actually pay to the government. And that tax rate is among the lowest in the industrialized world.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

A government capable of giving you everything you need is equally capable of taking your rights away. What difference does it make to them at that point? You are completely dependent on the system and will have no incentive to oppose it.

That is what you are proposing.

Another straw man.

Liberals believe in a regulated free market.

Your neoconservative experiment in deregulation led to disaster.

Beginning with Red Ink Ron, you pushed the notion that corporations could be left to police themselves, and everything would work out peachy for everyone.

We saw how that worked out.

Too bad you are incapable of learning from your mistakes.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

So the solution in your eyes is to steal wealth from one group and give it to government, and that will "fix it"?

Which leads right back to what I said in the first place. You exchange one master for another and consider it a victory. The issue is government, not the wealthy.

stop and listen to yourself ........... Making the rich pay the same amount of taxes as I do = stealing
How is that stealing ?

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

Maybe so.

Something wrong? You do not usually get vicious in posts.

I'm getting sick of the "Let them eat cake," posture of the Right.

Maybe it's because I helped my neighbor move out last week. He had his own construction company. First, he lost his company. Now, he's lost his house. So, with his wife and two kids, he's moving into his parents' basement. The rightard response would be, it's his own fault.

There is a great deal of pain going down in this country. The destruction of this country started with the implementation of a set of policies we could call Reaganism, or "greed is good." And now, not only is the Right refusing to accept responsibility for those policies while blocking any attempts to change them, they want to double down and impose more of their Hooverism on the country. Hoover had the same response to this kind of economy that Cain showcased the other day. What he said was that the poor are poor because they don't work hard enough.

Meanwhile, the people who benefited from the taxpayer bailouts are now standing on balconies overlooking Wall Street, sipping champagne while laughing at taxpayers protesting below.

[baja]

Time to exercise your 2nd amendment rights.