OrangeMane Podcast - Episode 8 - @ Green Bay

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

And a RB, C, DT, RG...

Aside from DT I wouldn't draft any of those positions in the 1st round.

[vancejohnson82]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Or Safety. We absolutely need a safety on this team.

In the first 3 rounds I wouldnt even look at safety....

we just blew two picks in the last draft on safety

[Powderaddict]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Every week it goes an hour and a half. With all the things to talk about, it's hard to keep it shorter than that. I've gotten a lot of feedback from people saying they like the length. I've gotten some from others who wish it were shorter. I personally like the hour and a half format. It's very throurough. It gives us a chance to really hash over the issues. It lends itself to the panel format really well. It's compelling throughout. And best of all, it fills the space when I'm on my bike ride. I like to listen to podcasts while I'm excersizing, cooking, doing chores, etc. I listen to several podcasts that are over an hour long - some of them even going over 2 hours. If the discussion is entertaining, it think it works out ok.

I like the length just fine. In fact, if it was stretched to 2 hours I'd have no complaint, it would cover a commute to and from work just about perfectly

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by 24champ

Do you really believe that?

Ellis controls what Elway and Co. can spend.

Ignore the idiot. Ellis was just promoted to effing President of the Broncos but he "doesn't hold the reins anymore"

[Ray Finkle]

Again let me first start by stating this, I really like the pod cast. However, the constant b****ing and finger pointing about who is at fault is tiring. Socal's Venom for Bowlen, Everyone else's venom against Orton takes away a lot of the great parts.

I understand it's a round table discussion but I am so Orton/Tebow'd out....

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by vancejohnson82

In the first 3 rounds I wouldnt even look at safety....

we just blew two picks in the last draft on safety

Blow is a strong word. It was needed and it's a heady position, so the mental errors they're making (Moore we can visibly see) are substantially amplified.

[vancejohnson82]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Blow is a strong word. It was needed and it's a heady position, so the mental errors they're making (Moore we can visibly see) are substantially amplified.

true...blow was a bad choice of word

but I would feel like we would be "blowing" a pick with a first day look at a safety....there are too many holes on the team to go early with positions we already have young guys we are trying to develop

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by vancejohnson82

true...blow was a bad choice of word

but I would feel like we would be "blowing" a pick with a first day look at a safety....there are too many holes on the team to go early with positions we already have young guys we are trying to develop

Fully agree.

We played a cover 2 shell against both the Jennings 43 yard bomb and the Jordy Nelson 50 yard touchdown. Moore bit hard on Jennings and paid the price, Dawkins couldn't run with Jordy on the other.

...but frankly, they were just as much Goodman (Jennings) and Vaughn (Jordy) fault. They were playing man underneath that cover 2 shell and that SHOULD empower the safeties TO play aggressive and go for the ball or vice versa. It didn't!

We could have the best safeties in the world right now and we'd still get chewed up underneath.

[24champ]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Ignore the idiot. Ellis was just promoted to effing President of the Broncos but he "doesn't hold the reins anymore"

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Haha NO ONE on the show advocated firing Fox.

Maybe it was the pain meds, but Taco was talking to Montrose about what he had heard on the radio about Fox and it seemed that everyone was losing patience with Fox. I will relisten after my nap

[vancejohnson82]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Fully agree.

We played a cover 2 shell against both the Jennings 43 yard bomb and the Jordy Nelson 50 yard touchdown. Moore bit hard on Jennings and paid the price, Dawkins couldn't run with Jordy on the other.

...but frankly, they were just as much Goodman (Jennings) and Vaughn (Jordy) fault. They were playing man underneath that cover 2 shell and that SHOULD empower the safeties TO play aggressive and go for the ball or vice versa. It didn't!

We could have the best safeties in the world right now and we'd still get chewed up underneath.

The one on Dawkins was absolutely disgusting.....I didn't even see Vaughn in the screen and Dawkins obviously isn't going to be able to run with 80% of the WRs in the league right now. Are you sure that was a Cover 2? If so, I'm putting that one more on Dawkins than Vaughn.

Again though....the one thing I will say about playing such a tough schedule this year is that there are going to be PLENTY of instances for Moore and Carter to learn some hard lessons and look stupid during the film sessions which will either make or break them...we will know a lot about what we have back there by the end of the year

The injury to Champ has also shown us that we have NOTHING out there....We haven't had a decent corner behind Champ since D-Will and even he was overrated a bit by the fans, IMO....wouldn't mind seeing us take a look at a corner early on

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by gyldenlove

Aside from DT I wouldn't draft any of those positions in the 1st round.

I woudn't take a DT high, I would take a midround guy we can home grow, I wouldn't take a RB high, I think we need to take a QB in the 1st and pick up a Vet for depth.

I didn't catch that Taco was talking about a high round pick.

I would take some OL depth as high as we can. It would be nice to have competition for Walton and Beadles.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by vancejohnson82

The one on Dawkins was absolutely disgusting.....I didn't even see Vaughn in the screen and Dawkins obviously isn't going to be able to run with 80% of the WRs in the league right now. Are you sure that was a Cover 2? If so, I'm putting that one more on Dawkins than Vaughn.

Again though....the one thing I will say about playing such a tough schedule this year is that there are going to be PLENTY of instances for Moore and Carter to learn some hard lessons and look stupid during the film sessions which will either make or break them...we will know a lot about what we have back there by the end of the year

The injury to Champ has also shown us that we have NOTHING out there....We haven't had a decent corner behind Champ since D-Will and even he was overrated a bit by the fans, IMO....wouldn't mind seeing us take a look at a corner early on

Positive. Watch it again. It's out of 21 personnel for GB so it's a straight forward play. And if you can't see Vaughn in your screen on that one you need to get your eyes checked... he and Dawkins are both one to two steps behind Jordy.

It was the Jennings TD that was more on Dawkins (single man covered), which is just Allen being schematically abused by McCarthy.

Pretty good post though.

[Chris]

Hey Rev thanks for being a complete jerk as always.

What evidence is there that Ellis has any input at this point? From everything I've seen it's EFX and EFX only making the football decisions. Ellis may have greater day to day operational control... but I don't hear about him making any football decisions.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by bronco militia

on the negativity.....

IMO, the only way the mood changes for Broncos fans is when the team starts winning again.

Kaylore, you are more negative on the podcast than you are with your posts on the Mane. Just my opinion.

I get that. Especially on the Orton front, and I'll back off. My beef was more that there was nothing positive about anyone at any level and I really don't believe that. For example, the criticisms of the front office's incompetence and the coach's as well were decidedly one-sided. The draft was considered pretty good, but no one mentioned this in criticizing Elway. Just snide comments like "this isn't a lemonade stand" (like he's been treating it like one?) and then ripping him for his bad tweets. Then stuff like saying John Fox isn't a motivator (and he is. Say what you want about him but his teams play for him, reports from the players are that they do buy more than McD, and we aren't losing due to lack of effort, but talent.) and that the Broncos not being able sign free agents that were singed by Carolina ( the majority of which were signed before free agency even began) is evidence he's "not a players coach?"

Come on.

I might rip Orton, but I usually paint the picture that there is hope on the horizon, remind people we're in a rebuild, and point to the areas on the team that are improving every week. I'm not going to pretend the team is going to be good or will be even in the near future, but I don't ridicule every level of the team from top to bottom.

[vancejohnson82]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Positive. Watch it again. It's out of 21 personnel for GB so it's a straight forward play. And if you can't see Vaughn in your screen on that one you need to get your eyes checked... he and Dawkins are both one to two steps behind Jordy.

It was the Jennings TD that was more on Dawkins (single man covered), which is just Allen being schematically abused by McCarthy.

Pretty good post though.

Ok....have to watch the replays again, but I hate clicking into NFL.com because it takes forever to load and get through the advertisements

I was probably thinking of the Jennings TD then because I just remember Dawkins lagging about 5-6 yards behind him and waiting for him to chew out somebody. When he didn't, I knew the play was all on him.

I was more disappointed with our defense and the coaching schemes on the drive right before half when ROdgers looked like Peyton in any playoff game against us. We telgraphed every blitz by stacking the line, but kept the corners off, which was straight out of the Coyer playbook against Indy.

And after that I don't remember much specifically....just Fells fumbling at the goal line

[broncosteven]

Nice Question by Req!

[DrFate]

Look forward to listening to it on the way home...

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

I get that. Especially on the Orton front, and I'll back off. My beef was more that there was nothing positive about anyone at any level and I really don't believe that. For example, the criticisms of the front office's incompetence and the coach's as well were decidedly one-sided. The draft was considered pretty good, but no one mentioned this in criticizing Elway. Just snide comments like "this isn't a lemonade stand" (like he's been treating it like one?) and then ripping him for his bad tweets. Then stuff like saying John Fox isn't a motivator (and he is. Say what you want about him but his teams play for him, reports from the players are that they do buy more than McD, and we aren't losing due to lack of effort, but talent.) and that the Broncos not being able sign free agents that were singed by Carolina ( the majority of which were signed before free agency even began) is evidence he's "not a players coach?"

Come on.

I might rip Orton, but I usually paint the picture that there is hope on the horizon, remind people we're in a rebuild, and point to the areas on the team that are improving every week. I'm not going to pretend the team is going to be good or will be even in the near future, but I don't ridicule every level of the team from top to bottom.

Personally, I wish you would've been able to make it last night.

Originally Posted by vancejohnson82

Ok....have to watch the replays again, but I hate clicking into NFL.com because it takes forever to load and get through the advertisements

I was probably thinking of the Jennings TD then because I just remember Dawkins lagging about 5-6 yards behind him and waiting for him to chew out somebody. When he didn't, I knew the play was all on him.

I was more disappointed with our defense and the coaching schemes on the drive right before half when ROdgers looked like Peyton in any playoff game against us. We telgraphed every blitz by stacking the line, but kept the corners off, which was straight out of the Coyer playbook against Indy.

And after that I don't remember much specifically....just Fells fumbling at the goal line

This is something else I wanted to mention during the podcast but wasn't able to jam it into to any of my ramblings.

At one point Simms mentioned your sentiment and suggested jamming the GB WRs at the LOS to disrupt the timing.

...but we simply don't have the CB talent to do that. Quite frankly, even Champ isn't a great press corner. The defense would get really beat up at the LOS and give up some big plays. The way they're doing it is for the best.

Strictly philosophically:

Man coverage - Buy time for pass rush to sack passer (you see this paying dividends in conjunction with Miller's athleticism and talent)

Zone coverage - Read the QB and turnover the football

That's EXTREMELY basic, but it might help someone.

[vancejohnson82]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Personally, I wish you would've been able to make it last night.



This is something else I wanted to mention during the podcast but wasn't able to jam it into to any of my ramblings.

At one point Simms mentioned your sentiment and suggested jamming the GB WRs at the LOS to disrupt the timing.

...but we simply don't have the CB talent to do that. Quite frankly, even Champ isn't a great press corner. The defense would get really beat up at the LOS and give up some big plays. The way they're doing it is for the best.

Strictly philosophically:

Man coverage - Buy time for pass rush to sack passer (you see this paying dividends in conjunction with Miller's athleticism and talent)

Zone coverage - Read the QB and turnover the football

That's EXTREMELY basic, but it might help someone.

Then what is the advantage of telgraphing a LB blitz, pressing up a safety and then running the corners back....have the corners have the option to jump a slant or curl and hope they don't have time to run a double move?

All we were giving up were intermediate routes in front of the coverage and I guess hoping that they either a) dropped the pass or b) missed a block up front and allowed us to get a quick sack.

I would have rather lined up and ran straight zone at them that entire drive and at least have Rodgers guess where to go with the ball. It woiuld have taken away the pass rush but at least we are making the kid think back there. We were basically telling him where to go with the ball before the snap.

It goes back to what we were talking about before. If we had better cover safeties it would give us the option to press and get help over the top. When we were pressing Dawkins up to the line Rodgers knew the corners had to play soft.

That drive really sucked the life out of me because it brought back bad memories. At one point I think I even yelled at Lenny Walls by accident

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by vancejohnson82

Then what is the advantage of telgraphing a LB blitz, pressing up a safety and then running the corners back....have the corners have the option to jump a slant or curl and hope they don't have time to run a double move?

All we were giving up were intermediate routes in front of the coverage and I guess hoping that they either a) dropped the pass or b) missed a block up front and allowed us to get a quick sack.

I would have rather lined up and ran straight zone at them that entire drive and at least have Rodgers guess where to go with the ball. It woiuld have taken away the pass rush but at least we are making the kid think back there. We were basically telling him where to go with the ball before the snap.

It goes back to what we were talking about before. If we had better cover safeties it would give us the option to press and get help over the top. When we were pressing Dawkins up to the line Rodgers knew the corners had to play soft.

That drive really sucked the life out of me because it brought back bad memories. At one point I think I even yelled at Lenny Walls by accident

I don't particularly remember being frustrated by Denver telegraphing blitzes or even particularly noticing it. It didn't make a cameo into my notes, but, that being said it wasn't far into the game when my notes went to hell and I started pounding neckbeards (copyright myself and taco)

But to answer your question, there ARE uses for telegraphing blitzes and they're primarily to influence the opposing teams protection schemes. Force them into max protect, make them adjust to create better stunting lanes, etc.

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

I woudn't take a DT high, I would take a midround guy we can home grow, I wouldn't take a RB high, I think we need to take a QB in the 1st and pick up a Vet for depth.

I didn't catch that Taco was talking about a high round pick.

I would take some OL depth as high as we can. It would be nice to have competition for Walton and Beadles.

I would draft a DT in round 1 if there is a guy with a superior mix of strength, speed and motor.

[broncosteven]

NIce work guys, fun listen though I did miss Kahn.

Loved Socal stepping it up, Montrose is going to be a Star and Rev was a fun listen.

Keep up the good work guys

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Just finished. Super smooth cover up on my disconnect!

There was SOOOOO much I wanted to talk about that I'm somewhat all over the place. Regardless, thanks again, it was an absolute blast and looking forward to it again sometime.

how's the chafing?

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

This is something else I wanted to mention during the podcast but wasn't able to jam it into to any of my ramblings.

At one point Simms mentioned your sentiment and suggested jamming the GB WRs at the LOS to disrupt the timing.

...but we simply don't have the CB talent to do that. Quite frankly, even Champ isn't a great press corner. The defense would get really beat up at the LOS and give up some big plays. The way they're doing it is for the best.

Strictly philosophically:

Man coverage - Buy time for pass rush to sack passer (you see this paying dividends in conjunction with Miller's athleticism and talent)

Zone coverage - Read the QB and turnover the football

That's EXTREMELY basic, but it might help someone.

Champ has always relied heavily on looking into the backfield to key on the QB to anticipate the throw, when playing press he would have to keep his eyes on the WR and decide which side to give up and hope the rush can get there or that he can jump the pass. To reliably bump at the line you really need physical corners who can jump to contest passes and if you don't have 2 safeties over top you need outside linebackers who can take away the inside pass since the CB can't give up the outside routes.