OrangeMane Podcast - Episode 8 - @ Green Bay

[TheDave]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

...Not an exaggeration at all

Do you have some specific points you'd like to raise?

Which parts of the show did you disagree with?

At this point I would completely disagree with the characterization that our entire FO including ownership and the CFO are a bunch of clowns pocketing all the money while screwing over the fans. What I heard made me think the group was already on the level of a Matt Millen regime with a little al davis thrown in.

I don't think that is the case... at all.

I think people are forgetting the mess this team was in when the season ended in january... Followed by lockout / followed by a truncated FA period camp schedule etc. Point is the deck is completely stacked against them this season. I think they have done an acceptable job so far and deserve more time to enact their "plan".

Let me give a quick example. Several years ago a former friend tried to rip me off through a business we co-owned. Long story short... I removed him from the business and walked head first into a **** storm not unlike the 2010 Broncos. Now I would love to tell you that I walked in made every correct decision and turned everything around in a matter of 6 months. Unfortunately life does not work that way... I didn't make every correct decision and it took a hell of a lot longer than 6 months to fix the mess my personal McDaniel's created... Point is we are jumping the gun, and it is way too early to characterize them as a bunch of incompetent thief's.

By this point in the McD regime we had traded our QB, blown the entire draft, suspended our WR, and were in the process of giving the all screen offense a go... A resounding WTF had been earned.


Now don't get too defensive Rev... I think everyone did a good job. I just think the tone was more helpless than it should be at this point.

[Chris]

I think it's important to separate their (imo) mistreatment of the current QB situation with the quality of the overall plan. Tebow or no Tebow, I'm actually confident in their ability to bridge the talent gap and get us back to a competitive level over the next few years. I like what Elway's said about the general principles he's applying to his management. I liked this year's draft... and I'm "ok" with the conservative approach of John Fox going forward.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by TheDave

At this point I would completely disagree with the characterization that our entire FO including ownership and the CFO are a bunch of clowns pocketing all the money while screwing over the fans. What I heard made me think the group was already on the level of a Matt Millen regime with a little al davis thrown in.

I don't think that is the case... at all.

I think people are forgetting the mess this team was in when the season ended in january... Followed by lockout / followed by a truncated FA period camp schedule etc. Point is the deck is completely stacked against them this season. I think they have done an acceptable job so far and deserve more time to enact their "plan".

Let me give a quicky example. Several years ago a former friend tried to rip me off through a business we co-owned. Long story short... I removed him from the business and walked head first into a **** storm not unlike the 2010 Broncos. Now I would love to tell you that I walked in made every correct decision and turned everything around in a matter of 6 months. Unfortunately life does not work that way... I didn't make every correct decision and it took a hell of a lot longer than 6 months to fix the mess my personal McDaniels created... Point is we are jumping the gun, and it is way too early to characterize them as a bunch of incompetent thiefs.

By this point in the McD regime we had traded our QB, blown the entire draft, suspended our WR, and were in the process of giving the all screen offense a go... A resounding WTF had been earned.


Now don't get too defensive Rev... I think everyone did a good job. I just think the tone was more helpless than it should be at this point.

I'm not getting defensive, I'm just asking you for examples. Why are you getting defensive about being asked to provide them?

I think the only real FO comments were about how they completely neglected CB coming into the season and how they've sold Tebow to fans only to bench him and related dishonesty.

Personally I don't see how anyone can disagree with those points.

Now, you mentioned the FO inheriting a huge mess.... but most of the FO is held-over from last year, sooooo... what am I missing that was discussed that you disagree with? I mean, exaggerated paraphrasing is swell and all, but genuinely some specific examples would help ME see your POV?

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

1. Thanks

2. Jennings had 1 TD and it was a 17 yard gain over a loose cover 1 where Dawkins (wtf) is playing on Jennings and well... that's a horrid match up and THAT'S a spot to blow a timeout.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201110...ghts&tab=recap

We didn't discuss that play in the podcast, but great post gylden.

I see what you mean, on the TV I was watching I didn't see the outside guy go down the sideline so it looked like Vaughn was backing into a deep zone, which is why I said cover 3.

Dawkins in general had a rough day against the pass they went to him several times knowing they had a big speed advantage.

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

There were a lot of things I wanted to get to without the opportunity to and some flat out mistakes. When TJ asked about the time management I wanted to specifically mention taking a knee before half, specific use of TOs and him running it when we were down by 32 and playing to save face and not to win. Things like that.

I also wanted to get into the schematics of Allen's defense and while we're finally crushing pockets, how it's also made us so susceptible to misdirection and big plays, etc.

Who knew 1:40 wasnt nearly enough time!

As for your comments, maybe a section of the show dedicated to "brightsides" in order? Especially with mounting losses and building frustration? Maybe some MORE focus on Miller and Doom and McGahee and getting healthy?

What specifics would you have been positive about had you been able to make it last night?

The kneel-down at the end of the 1st half really set the tone for me, it is 28 seconds, all 3 time-outs and an 11 point game at the time, you have a kicker with a big leg and if you can move the ball to the GB 40 you have an outside shot at 3 points, that play to me showed that Fox does not trust Orton as much as he would like us to believe - if you trust your QB to go out and and not make a mistake, you take that chance, hope you can get enough yards for a FG and make it a 1 possession game, especially with GB recieving in the 2nd half, you risk being down by 3 scores by the time you get the ball back.

As for the positives, the defensive line is doing better than I think anyone would have anticipated, they are still not a strong unit but considering how far behind the rest of an otherwise bad team they were last year it is good to see some improvement there. I think Rahim Moore is showing some good things, he is obviously still a rookie and still makes rookie mistakes but the talent is obvious. On offense Decker is clearly showing a lot of promise, he still has a few miscues with route running, but he makes a lot of plays and the mental side of the game will come with more game time. So far I would say the free agents we did bring in have done well, Mcgahee, Fells and Bunkley (I know he was a trade) have contributed.

As for debating draft in 2012, I can only see 2 options in the first round, CB or QB.

[Requiem]

I'd keep CB and DL in the first round as well.

[TheReverend]

Great posts gylden! And I know what you meant with the coverage, 3 and 1 can be confusing. As far as your first cover 3 comment, there is no opening between deep thirds and LBs... The SS will float in there.

Cover 3 is specifically used to take away the deep and intermediate balls and force someone to come after you underneath with slants and outs.

...Unfortunately our personnel probably won't even allow an effective use of 3 until Champ returns. Then Moore can cheat to goodman a little.

Re: moore I fully agree with you but he made huge mental errors this game. His play on the jennings bomb was just stupid and he needs to sack up and not run OOB when he gets the ball. Just a couple off the cuff examples

[24champ]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Now, you mentioned the FO inheriting a huge mess.... but most of the FO is held-over from last year, sooooo... what am I missing that was discussed that you disagree with?

ALL of the FO is held over from last year, only added Elway...

[broncosteven]

DEATHSicle can provide better music, the 1st bumper was bad though the voice over intro was pointed in the right direction.

Just started to listen, I had a full day of dr's yesterday.

BTW Taco, DEATHSicle got DEATHSicles new synth, little mono Dave Smith Mopho. Hint, Hint!

[Chris]

Originally Posted by 24champ

ALL of the FO is held over from last year, only added Elway...

At least Ellis isn't holding the reins anymore.

[bronco militia]

rev, you were much more diplomatic than I expected. props on playing nice.

great job again!

[bronco militia]

on the negativity.....

IMO, the only way the mood changes for Broncos fans is when the team starts winning again.

Kaylore, you are more negative on the podcast than you are with your posts on the Mane. Just my opinion.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

The length might be my fault.

Turns out I have a tendency to tangent. Who knew?!

Every week it goes an hour and a half. With all the things to talk about, it's hard to keep it shorter than that. I've gotten a lot of feedback from people saying they like the length. I've gotten some from others who wish it were shorter. I personally like the hour and a half format. It's very throurough. It gives us a chance to really hash over the issues. It lends itself to the panel format really well. It's compelling throughout. And best of all, it fills the space when I'm on my bike ride. I like to listen to podcasts while I'm excersizing, cooking, doing chores, etc. I listen to several podcasts that are over an hour long - some of them even going over 2 hours. If the discussion is entertaining, it think it works out ok.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by bronco militia

on the negativity.....

IMO, the only way the mood changes for Broncos fans is when the team starts winning again.

Kaylore, you are more negative on the podcast than you are with your posts on the Mane. Just my opinion.

I felt that way too and frankly was surprised by it. I thought Kaylore has been the most ruthless towards Orton until I was on, in fact.

[bronco militia]

FYI, I don't mind the negativity....

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by bronco militia

FYI, I don't mind the negativity....

I get the gripe, I'm just asking for people to give examples so TJ can implement them towards the development of his show. Somehow it'll be viewed as "needlessly confrontational" though

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by gyldenlove

As for debating draft in 2012, I can only see 2 options in the first round, CB or QB.

Or Safety. We absolutely need a safety on this team.

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Or Safety. We absolutely need a safety on this team.

And a RB, C, DT, RG...

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Or Safety. We absolutely need a safety on this team.

Upgraded corners mean less two deep looks

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Upgraded corners mean less two deep looks

I'm all for an upgrade in corner, but I think we can find that in FA. Teams don't let top flight safeties get away - they're not as expensive to sign usually and are easier to keep around. You got to get a top safety through the draft.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Taco John

I'm all for an upgrade in corner, but I think we can find that in FA. Teams don't let top flight safeties get away - they're not as expensive to sign usually and are easier to keep around. You got to get a top safety through the draft.

[broncosteven]

I am about 35 min in and I can't believe you guys are talking about firing Fox already.

I think the FO just wanted to stabilize the team and find out what they have talent wise rather than desperately trying to over pay for FA's this year.

Give Fox at least 2 years to stabilize the franchise and fill out the depth before you pick up your pitch forks.

Socal has the right idea.

It does sound like the Broncos Marketing staff had a disconnect with the FO/coaching staff with their marketing of Timbo on the tickets and merch.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

I am about 35 min in and I can't believe you guys are talking about firing Fox already.

I think the FO just wanted to stabilize the team and find out what they have talent wise rather than desperately trying to over pay for FA's this year.

Give Fox at least 2 years to stabilize the franchise and fill out the depth before you pick up your pitch forks.

Socal has the right idea.

It does sound like the Broncos Marketing staff had a disconnect with the FO/coaching staff with their marketing of Timbo on the tickets and merch.

Haha NO ONE on the show advocated firing Fox.

[24champ]

Originally Posted by Chris

At least Ellis isn't holding the reins anymore.

Do you really believe that?

Ellis controls what Elway and Co. can spend.

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Or Safety. We absolutely need a safety on this team.

I just don't think we can spend two 2nd round picks and a 1st round picks on safeties over a 4 year period, S is not nearly as important a position as CB - I would be much happier getting a good CB and picking up a journeyman safety (there are always a few floating around FA).