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[2KBack]

Originally Posted by jhns

I meant offensive talent, and he came close last season. It took a bad injury to stop him. Cutler is a vet now though. He is ready to lead.

oh....so now he is a vet...and going like 5-10 for 70 yards and an int before the injury has nothing to do with not winning last year

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

If you prefer TEs that catch fewer balls for fewer yards and don't catch TDs.

Or if you just like guys that can exceed Olsen's best season in under half the playing time.

But whatever.

[jhns]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

You keep telling us that coaches don't always know what's best, so why should we care what Heimerdinger thinks?

The fact is that the Bears dumbed down their offense last season because Cutler kept throwing up INTs, ruining things for the defense and special teams that were the real reason they had a good season last year. Then he quit on them in the playoffs.

Ahh, the butthurt of a little girl.

They don't always know whats best. The thing is, I can show you many coaches that say really good things about Cutler. Elway thinks he is the kind of talent you don't give up on. He was sad to see him traded. Shanahan says many good things about Cutler and Shanahan knows QBs. Coaches like McDaniels are the ones that have proven that they don't know what they are doing...

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

You keep telling us that coaches don't always know what's best, so why should we care what Heimerdinger thinks?

The fact is that the Bears dumbed down their offense last season because Cutler kept throwing up INTs, ruining things for the defense and special teams that were the real reason they had a good season last year. Then he quit on them in the playoffs.

I was going to highlight the dumb part of your post...

but then it all would've been highlighted...

[jhns]

Originally Posted by 2KBack

oh....so now he is a vet...and going like 5-10 for 70 yards and an int before the injury has nothing to do with not winning last year

He played while injured for a while before he came out... It was the fact that he couldn't throw with the injury(hence the numbers) that made his coaches pull him.

He wasn't fully ready last season though. We gave him away at a crucial point in his decelopment. Chicagos crap offensive coaching set him back at first. He is now ready to take over the world.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

I was going to highlight the dumb part of your post...

but then it all would've been highlighted...

Dispute it then. Why did the Bears start running a more conservative offense in the middle of last season? And why did the results improve once they did so? Yeah, it had absolutely nothing to do with Cutler's penchant for turnovers, did it?

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Or if you just like guys that can exceed Olsen's best season in under half the playing time.

But whatever.

Schef has literally NEVER done that.

[jhns]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

Dispute it then. Why did the Bears start running a more conservative offense in the middle of last season? And why did the results improve once they did so? Yeah, it had absolutely nothing to do with Cutler's penchant for turnovers, did it?

It never happened. This makes it impossible to say why it happened...

He threw it 40 times in week 17 alone. He had 3+ TDs in four games during the second half of the season. Facts are calling you an idiot.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by jhns

He played while injured for a while before he came out... It was the fact that he couldn't throw with the injury(hence the numbers) that made his coaches pull him.

He wasn't fully ready last season though. We gave him away at a crucial point in his decelopment. Chicagos crap offensive coaching set him back at first. He is now ready to take over the world.

But you say you only care about what the facts on the field are. In the Orton/Tebow debates, according to you, the only thing that matters is that Tebow outproduced Orton in actual games. And you know what? I agree with you. Problem is, regardless of what anyone says about Cutler positive or negative, the results on the field show a guy who hasn't gotten a lot better over the years. In fact, he's probably regressed a bit since he was seperated from Shanny. With Orton, people say that he is to the point of his career where we know what he is, he isn't going to get better. And I agree with that. But Cutler has actually started more games than Orton (68 to 61). Yet, a lot of folks seem to think he can still improve. At what point is it safe to conclude that Cutler is a finished product?

[jhns]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

But you say you only care about what the facts on the field are. In the Orton/Tebow debates, according to you, the only thing that matters is that Tebow outproduced Orton in actual games. And you know what? I agree with you. Problem is, regardless of what anyone says about Cutler positive or negative, the results on the field show a guy who hasn't gotten a lot better over the years. In fact, he's probably regressed a bit since he was seperated from Shanny. With Orton, people say that he is to the point of his career where we know what he is, he isn't going to get better. And I agree with that. But Cutler has actually started more games than Orton (68 to 61). Yet, a lot of folks seem to think he can still improve. At what point is it safe to conclude that Cutler is a finished product?

Orton has been in the league longer. Cutler just went to the NFCCG. Neither of these guys are finished products. I don't say Orton can't improve. It isn't his throwing that I have a problem with. It is his folding every time the going gets tough. Cutler won 8 games with a similar defense as what we had last season. He doesn't fold every time the game is close and even leads comebacks that don't rely on fluke plays... Orton just doesn't have 'it'. If he learns to deal with pressure, he could be pretty good.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by jhns

It never happened. This makes it impossible to say why it happened...

He threw it 40 times in week 17 alone. He had 3+ TDs in four games during the second half of the season. Facts are calling you an idiot.

After their three game losing streak in October, which culminated with Cutler's 4 INT performance against Washington, that was 1 of only 3 games in the final 10 where he threw more than 26 passes. What's that about facts again?

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

Schef has literally NEVER done that.

Scheffler's 2008 saw more yards and first downs in 7 starts than Olsen's best season.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

Dispute it then. Why did the Bears start running a more conservative offense in the middle of last season? And why did the results improve once they did so? Yeah, it had absolutely nothing to do with Cutler's penchant for turnovers, did it?

You go ahead and show me their "more conservative offense"

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

You go ahead and show me their "more conservative offense"

After Cutler's 4 INT game against Washington in October, Chicago was sitting on a 3 game losing streak. After that game, Cutler only threw the ball more than 26 times in 3 out of the final 10 regular season games. With Mike Martz as OC, no less. If you don't think that's conservative, I don't know what to tell you.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Scheffler's 2008 saw more yards and first downs in 7 starts than Olsen's best season.

yawn.

For every cherry picked yards and first downs, I'll see you TDs (BY FAR) and receptions.

Look. All I said was the guy was his security blanket. He was. Sorry that rubs you the wrong way. He had a lot of receptions for Cutler the last two years and was particularly helpful in the redzone. Guys like Schef aren't security blankets because they're never on the field. Does Schef tend to stretch the field better? Sure, I'd concede that. But that's a different argument. It's not a security blanket's job to stretch the field. He's there to rack up receptions and bail out his QB. And Olsen did that quite well IMO.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

After Cutler's 4 INT game against Washington in October, Chicago was sitting on a 3 games losing streak. After that game, Cutler only threw the ball more than 26 times in 3 out of the final 10 regular games. With Mike Martz as coach, no less. If you don't think that's conservative, I don't know what to tell you.

So immediately after the 4 INT game when you say they switched to a more conservative offense over the bye week, they come out and have him throw it 30 times on the road and then 35 the following week?

Is that what you're saying?

Or do you just want to come out and say you have no idea what you're talking about?

[jhns]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

After their three game losing streak in October, that was 1 of only 3 games in the final 10 where Cutler threw more than 26 passes. What's that about facts again?

Wtf? Of course they don't throw it 40 times a game when they are winning games. They have a defense... They weren't playing in shootouts... Tom Brady ran a conservative offense because he only went over 29 throws once after week 10!

3+ TDs in half the games in the second half of the season. As you pointed out, multiple games over 30 passes in that time. This, while on a team with a pretty good defense. Reality just doesn't agree with you. The only reason he threw so much the first few weeks is because he had to lead comebacks and make up for poor defensive play...

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

yawn.

For every cherry picked yards and first downs, I'll see you TDs (BY FAR) and receptions.

Look. All I said was the guy was his security blanket. He was. Sorry that rubs you the wrong way. He had a lot of receptions for Cutler the last two years and was particularly helpful in the redzone. Guys like Schef aren't security blankets because they're never on the field. Does Schef tend to stretch the field better? Sure, I'd concede that. But that's a different argument. It's not a security blanket's job to stretch the field. He's there to rack up receptions and bail out his QB. And Olsen did that quite well IMO.

Well if he's a security blanket, he's moving the chains, right?

And if you're not tracking the theme of my point that Olsen's best season is comparable production to Tony Scheffler, than I think you're missing the fact that he's completely expendable.

As further proven by the trade...

[jhns]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

After Cutler's 4 INT game against Washington in October, Chicago was sitting on a 3 game losing streak. After that game, Cutler only threw the ball more than 26 times in 3 out of the final 10 regular season games. With Mike Martz as OC, no less. If you don't think that's conservative, I don't know what to tell you.

They never once had a three game losing streak... Cutler didn't even play one and a half October games because his line let him get killed.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Well if he's a security blanket, he's moving the chains, right?

And if you're not tracking the theme of my point that Olsen's best season is comparable production to Tony Scheffler, than I think you're missing the fact that he's completely expendable.

As further proven by the trade...

Jesus Effing Christ Rev. I NEVER said he was irreplaceable. I just said it MIGHT hurt. Losing your starting receiving TE, who has put up some pretty good numbers for you over the past few years, might hurt. That's it. I wasn't trying to post the cure for cancer or something. It was a simple little statement that I didn't expect to blow up into anything more. I was just pointing out that they didn't ONLY gain weapons at receiver. They lost one as well. A fairly significant one IMO. One that Cutler obviously had chemistry with on (and off....yikes) the field.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

Jesus Effing Christ Rev. I NEVER said he was irreplaceable. I just said it MIGHT hurt. Losing your starting receiving TE, who has put up some pretty good numbers for you over the past few years, might hurt. That's it. I wasn't trying to post the cure for cancer or something. It was a simple little statement that I didn't expect to blow up into anything more. I was just pointing out that they didn't ONLY gain weapons at receiver. They lost one as well. A fairly significant one IMO. One that Cutler obviously had chemistry with on (and off....yikes) the field.

I think we're having some miscommunication here. I absolutely get that you don't think he was irreplaceable and not trying to imply you think that. However, my point is that he was 1/8th of the passing game.

1/8th.

And he was a poor scheme fit for Martz.

Quite frankly, not only do I think he was COMPLETELY expendable, but that the offense will improve without him there.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

So immediately after the 4 INT game when you say they switched to a more conservative offense over the bye week, they come out and have him throw it 30 times on the road and then 35 the following week?

Is that what you're saying?

Or do you just want to come out and say you have no idea what you're talking about?

Care to explain seven straight games between 11/18 and 12/26 when he never threw it more than 26 times? It wasn't like they were blowing out teams every week either. Only two of the wins were by double digits. How is throwing the ball > 26 times NOT conservative in todays NFL?

Jhns is right...they had a great defense, so they played it conservative to reduce the risk of momentum changing turnovers. If they trusted Cutler, why not let him throw it more to put teams away earlier?

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by jhns

They never once had a three game losing streak... Cutler didn't even play one and a half October games because his line let him get killed.

You're right...they lost three Cutler starts in a row, 3 out of 4 losses overall. The one game he did not start against Carolina, they won.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

Care to explain seven straight games between 11/18 and 12/26 when he never threw it more than 26 times? It wasn't like they were blowing out teams every week either. Only two of the wins were by double digits. How is throwing the ball > 26 times NOT conservative in todays NFL?

Jhns is right...they had a great defense, so they played it conservative to reduce the risk of momentum changing turnovers. If they trusted Cutler, why not let him throw it more to put teams away earlier?

Sweet! So now we're down to a sample size of a month and a week?

And two of those were blowouts in Chicago's favor...

That leaves us with:

Philly - He threw for 4 TDs... don't need more pass attempts when you're scoring like Candy.

@ Detroit - Probably would've thrown more than 26x but he completed 81 ****ing percent of his passes!

NE - They just got completely pimp smacked.

NYJ - He had a 3 TD performance against the Jets defense... and Forte was at 6 ypc. But who needs context, amirite?

Would you like to try again?

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by jhns

Wtf? Of course they don't throw it 40 times a game when they are winning games. They have a defense... They weren't playing in shootouts... Tom Brady ran a conservative offense because he only went over 29 throws once after week 10!

New England was blowing teams out during that stretch. The Pats won all 7 of their games after week 10. Only 2 of those 7 were decided by any less than 13 points. When you have a big lead, obviously you aren't going to throw as much. During Cutler's 7 game stretch of throwing 26 or fewer passes, only 2 of the wins were by double digits. So, that doesn't explain it.