OT: Drug Testing

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by ICON

I want you to imagine that most of the people in this society are mostly quite content with their situation.

In other words, it is a reasonably happy place.

And now the question that I want you to contemplate very deeply is this one.

What’s in it for government?

How can government – and government workers – benefit from having to exist within a society of people who seem to be quite happy and at peace with each other?

On what grounds can the government say to the people, “You need more government. Give us more tax money.”

Well, clearly, in such an idyllic society, it would be very difficult indeed to persuade the people to part with more of their own resources – acquired through their own labours – in order to fund ‘more government’.

However, if this reasonably happy society can be disrupted by some force or other – some force that induces ‘disharmony’ within the population – an increase in crime, say – then the government will find it much easier to extract a bigger piece of the society’s pie. For example, if there is an increase in crime, the people will far more readily agree to fund a bigger police force. If the men and women start fighting against each other, and begin to split apart, with married couples getting divorced, then the government can justify extracting further resources from the people in order to create a larger social services workforce to look after the women and children who are now on their own.

And the point that I am trying to get across here is this.

Governments benefit not by the people being at peace with each other, but by them being at war with each other in some way.

Of course, governments can benefit from many other things too, but the point here is this. Governments clearly benefit from what I shall henceforth simply call ‘disharmony’ – societal disharmony; such as crime....

And, collectively, by hook or by crook, these government workers can, and will, create the most monumental force in order to get these various benefits for themselves; a force that the people simply cannot counter.

"They" just want more money! Well as for me... I'd rather give more money to the crack heads on Welfare then any more dang money for wall street.

but I agree with this law brosef... governments benefit from lazy people, disenfranchised people (drug addicts, for example) and people who really don't care. they don't care about stopping their addiction, or their drug use, or drinking or whatever. again, the dregs of society will eventually flush themselves out while the people who want to work will work.

[ICON]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

but I agree with this law brosef... governments benefit from lazy people, disenfranchised people (drug addicts, for example) and people who really don't care. they don't care about stopping their addiction, or their drug use, or drinking or whatever. again, the dregs of society will eventually flush themselves out while the people who want to work will work.

The new kid on the block has the muscle power, the organizational power, the financial power and the legal power to get what he wants, he also has the propaganda power to persuade the people of his point of view.

And it is absolutely clear that this new kid has been using this enormous power to serve himself.

Just take a look at how western governments have grown over the past 100 years – or even over the past 10 years. Look at the ever-increasing tax take. Look at the ever-increasing numbers of people employed by government. Look at the thousands upon thousands of laws, regulations, restrictions and directives that are annually being imposed by western governments on their own peoples.

These governments just grows and grows and grows – not only in terms of size, but also in terms of power and wealth. And they are infiltrating themselves into every aspect of people’s lives; controlling, monitoring, regulating, directing, stipulating, coercing – always to an ever-greater extent.

But who can stop them?

There is no question in my own mind that many of the people at the top of government and at the top of government departments are malicious – coldly, callously malicious. And they often know full well that what they are doing is harming their own people. But this is of no real significance to them. In other words, they do not care. Their only concern is to serve themselves in some way.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by ICON

The new kid on the block has the muscle power, the organizational power, the financial power and the legal power to get what he wants, he also has the propaganda power to persuade the people of his point of view.

And it is absolutely clear that this new kid has been using this enormous power to serve himself.

Just take a look at how western governments have grown over the past 100 years – or even over the past 10 years. Look at the ever-increasing tax take. Look at the ever-increasing numbers of people employed by government. Look at the thousands upon thousands of laws, regulations, restrictions and directives that are annually being imposed by western governments on their own peoples.

These governments just grows and grows and grows – not only in terms of size, but also in terms of power and wealth. And they are infiltrating themselves into every aspect of people’s lives; controlling, monitoring, regulating, directing, stipulating, coercing – always to an ever-greater extent.

But who can stop them?

There is no question in my own mind that many of the people at the top of government and at the top of government departments are malicious – coldly, callously malicious. And they often know full well that what they are doing is harming their own people. But this is of no real significance to them. In other words, they do not care. Their only concern is to serve themselves in some way.

not sure what you are ramblin on about here. we agree less gov is good, we strongly disaggree on the type of gov in charge I guess...

[ICON]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

not sure what you are ramblin on about here. we agree less gov is good, we strongly disaggree on the type of gov in charge I guess...

[IMG][/IMG]

[ICON]

By now, everybody's supposed to know that when it comes to survival - staying alive - you know, you have to be... you can't be too picky and choosy about the company you're going to keep. You know? Sometimes you have to cooperate with some kind of unsavory people: people you don't like, people you don't trust, people you don't respect. The kind of people you might not even invite into your own home. So, for that reason, tonight I'm announcing my intention to cooperate with the United States government.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by ICON

[gunns]

Originally Posted by ICON

Sounds funny to me. First off it looks like an attempt to further alienate, degrade and dehumanize people who need public assistance, more fodder for the class war and demonetization of the little guy. Wonder who benefits from that.

Second, if any one gets sent to jail behind these drug tests, I can’t help but believe they will be sent to private jails, and if there are no private jails there yet, the contracts and licenses for private jails are being issued as we speak. Which leads me to guesstimate that any monies saved from welfare, will be more than cancelled out all to the ultimate expense of the tax payer.

Well you can get over it. Class war? I get drug tested. Most people I know get drug tested at their job. A low estimate of 50% receiving welfare are frauding the system and I do mean low. They do not needit. Besides it's so low you have to wonder how someone collecting $576.00 a month can pay their rent of $700.00. Because they are 1) working under the table 2) Daddy IS in the home and working 3) They are selling drugs they are often buying with welfare monies. Plus, when the media talks about receiving welfare, they are referring to Tanf, not food stamps or medicaid. No one is going to jail. It's a breach of confidentiality to turn them in. Save your tears for something worthwhile. I love this, it's about damn time.

One thing, if the welfare offices closed their doors today not one person would starve to death or be any worse off.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by ChrisToker

The revolving doors of politics. Aint it a biscuit. Did you know pretty much all 'elected' officials are taking part in this? Any one in the FDA worked for Monsanto, any one that worked for Monsanto goes on to FDA. How else would they get all the GMO's to pass swiftly w/out propper testing. Same goes for Treasury departmen. If you are part of treasury department you came from Goldman Sachs and vise versa. PPL still wonder why US is going bankrupt.

...Hmm...

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by SouthStndJunkie

What happens when all these addicts don't get their welfare money and then get really desperate for the next fix and start rolling people?

Most of these folks aren't going to get jobs to make up for the lost money, they will commit crimes.

In theory, I like the idea, but there will be repercussions that may be a lot worse than anticipated.

That is the argument? If we revoke their welfare they will become criminals? Really? Considering what welfare is and the expense of their habits (if they have one) they are probably already doing illegal ****...

[SouthStndJunkie]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

That is the argument? If we revoke their welfare they will become criminals? Really? Considering what welfare is and the expense of their habits (if they have one) they are probably already doing illegal ****...

It's not 'the' argument, I'm simply trying to bring up possible side effects of the new law.

You make desperate people even more desperate and there will be consequences....it's a matter of if they are positive or negative.

[ICON]

Originally Posted by gunns

Well you can get over it. Class war? I get drug tested. Most people I know get drug tested at their job. A low estimate of 50% receiving welfare are frauding the system and I do mean low. They do not needit. Besides it's so low you have to wonder how someone collecting $576.00 a month can pay their rent of $700.00. Because they are 1) working under the table 2) Daddy IS in the home and working 3) They are selling drugs they are often buying with welfare monies. Plus, when the media talks about receiving welfare, they are referring to Tanf, not food stamps or medicaid. No one is going to jail. It's a breach of confidentiality to turn them in. Save your tears for something worthwhile. I love this, it's about damn time.




One thing, if the welfare offices closed their doors today not one person would starve to death or be any worse off.

I discount your opinions when you assume so much.


Some assumptions are based on facts, reason, and experience, and others are based on super-stition, hunches, emotions, and misinformation. "Try walking a mile in there shoes before you make guesses about them."

[ICON]

Originally Posted by gunns

Well you can get over it. Class war? I get drug tested. Most people I know get drug tested at their job. A low estimate of 50% receiving welfare are frauding the system and I do mean low. They do not needit. Besides it's so low you have to wonder how someone collecting $576.00 a month can pay their rent of $700.00. Because they are 1) working under the table 2) Daddy IS in the home and working 3) They are selling drugs they are often buying with welfare monies. Plus, when the media talks about receiving welfare, they are referring to Tanf, not food stamps or medicaid. No one is going to jail. It's a breach of confidentiality to turn them in. Save your tears for something worthwhile. I love this, it's about damn time.

One thing, if the welfare offices closed their doors today not one person would starve to death or be any worse off.

The question is: is breaking up the system the solution, or does it create more problems. Getting people out of their passive, welfare dependent, state is hard - takes government money I guess. However, without the safety net things would be a LOT worse for a LOT of children and adults.

Although I see the problems with welfare, I don't know what the best solution is. Although we may be "created equal" according to the constitution, we certainly are not born with equal means, intelligence or talents. I don't think that it would be right for a wealthy nation to simply allow people to die because of lack of food and shelter.

We don't have to look very far to see what happens when the welfare safety net is pulled away. Look at countries where there is no welfare provision. Look at the shanty towns, the crime, the prostitution, starvation, infant and child death rates, look at death rates in general. Yes, there are always generous people who will try and help but the majority of people are just getting by. They don't have spare money to give away or so little that it's a drop in the ocean.

Are we prepared to allow people from babies to the elderly die from the consequences of poverty? How will we live with our consciences if this happens and all because we begrudge the tax we pay to prevent it?

Is this a civilised society or is it dog eat dog?

[Cocaine Bronco 420]

Good thing blow only stays in your system for two days.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by Cocaine Bronco 420

Good thing blow only stays in your system for two days.

Party over here!