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Old 06-19-2011, 08:47 PM   #201
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Edit: all hidden in case anyone is silly enough to visit forums before watching an episode.

{ The end with Danerys was, stylistically much different from the end of the book. In the book it's made clear that she didn't intend to walk into the pyre but was compelled to do so - also in the book she emerges from the flames with the dragons rather than just kinda hangin' out till the next day when the fire burns out. It was actually fairly disappointing but understandable due to the complexity/expense to do that in a TV series.

Also: In the book there's some serious squick factor as the dragons are nursing from her post-pardum breasts as she emerges. She later referred to as the "Mother Of Dragons" more or less specially because of that. As to why the hell dragons are nursing.. go figure
}

I'm going to steal this invisible ghost writing thing.
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:01 PM   #202
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Meh, I don't have a problem with that portion of the finale... more the lack of... well... anything else?

What else happened? (also spoiler protecting here) :

Jon left and came back immediately
Arya got a haircut
Geoffrey is still Geoffrey
Cat smacked Jaime


Color me disappointed.

Huge fan of the series now and will have all the books read by season two, but still really disappointed with this finale.
{ I agree, the finale was by far the weakest. They rearranged and vastly cut all the portions after Ned's exection. At least a couple hundred pages that were after that even got cut what little survived (mostly the bits about Jaime's capture and the fighting surrounding that) got moved to "before" Ned's execution instead of after. They really should have done 12 episodes with the pacing they had.

}

The basic problem is GRRM never "ends" any of the books. He just more or less arbitrarily chopped the story into books. He even admits it in his forwards/afterwards heh.
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:03 PM   #203
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:05 PM   #204
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:06 PM   #205
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The basic problem is GRRM never "ends" any of the books. He just more or less arbitrarily chopped the story into books. He even admits it in his forwards/afterwards heh.
Okay. That's fair. I was expecting more of a RJ finale instead of a "lol to be continued", so it was very frustrating.
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:18 PM   #206
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Okay. That's fair. I was expecting more of a RJ finale instead of a "lol to be continued", so it was very frustrating.

The last episode will make more sense when you get through the first and second books. They had alot to set up.


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Old 06-19-2011, 09:29 PM   #207
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The last episode will make more sense when you get through the first and second books. They had alot to set up.


....yeah, I think that's inherently obvious. Is a finale the right time to be doing that though? Fedaykin's earlier post addresses why the finale should've been the first part of the next book though.
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Old 06-19-2011, 11:06 PM   #208
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Old 06-19-2011, 11:34 PM   #209
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Old 06-20-2011, 12:58 AM   #210
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....yeah, I think that's inherently obvious. Is a finale the right time to be doing that though?
I don't think a finale is a bad time at all to set something up. I mean, it sure as Hell usually beats a cliffhanger. When you consider the amount of stuff that had been building and all of the storylines that were falling together, I think it was a perfect way to end the season. It isn't like there was no resolution to anything, either. The paths are now more laid out, and they can hit the ground running next season.

Of course, I haven't read the books so maybe I'm way off base. As a viewer who knew nothing ahead of time I thought it was very well done.
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Old 06-20-2011, 01:00 AM   #211
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....yeah, I think that's inherently obvious. Is a finale the right time to be doing that though? Fedaykin's earlier post addresses why the finale should've been the first part of the next book though.

Considering the nature of the books, there is no real start to the second book. Its just on to the next character. The show had to try and make it clean for TV, but there is no real end of book one start of book two. It only gets more crazy from here.


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Old 06-20-2011, 09:47 AM   #212
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I hear ya rev..

{I thought man i hope we get a good fight scene or something. I could feel all the build up and knew what was going to happen to the hot khaleesi but still. Despite all the build up- which I like, a little more action or perhaps an hour and half finale...Something just a bit more.

The build up of the wall guards leaving, my hot khaleesi, boy stark becoming king of north was great....but aside from that it was boring. More "stuff" was needed.
}
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:57 AM   #213
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I hear ya rev..

{I thought man i hope we get a good fight scene or something. I could feel all the build up and knew what was going to happen to the hot khaleesi but still. Despite all the build up- which I like, a little more action or perhaps an hour and half finale...Something just a bit more.

The build up of the wall guards leaving, my hot khaleesi, boy stark becoming king of north was great....but aside from that it was boring. More "stuff" was needed.
}
EXACTLY!

The only plot line that came to a head this week was with the Khaleesi. Everyone else is still in transition. Not cool man
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:31 AM   #214
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EXACTLY!

The only plot line that came to a head this week was with the Khaleesi. Everyone else is still in transition. Not cool man
Get used to everyone being "in transition". There's no "knight shining saves the beautiful princess from the tower and they all live happily ever after" -- because instead of "happily ever after" either the knight or the princess die a brutal death shortly after being married which sets up the next bit of story. =)
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:38 AM   #215
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Get used to everyone being "in transition". There's no "knight shining saves the beautiful princess from the tower and they all live happily ever after" -- because instead of "happily ever after" either the knight or the princess die a brutal death shortly after being married which sets up the next bit of story. =)
Yup, still has nothing to do with it. In fact, that is what the makes the story so compelling thus far to me.

It'd be great if he would've stopped at the "brutal death" (to borrow your analogy) because it came with a semblance of temporary closure. The complaint is arbitrarily ending the story at a random time that has nothing to do with plot lines and more to do with "Okay, I'm at 300k words, time to stop".
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:52 AM   #216
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Get used to everyone being "in transition". There's no "knight shining saves the beautiful princess from the tower and they all live happily ever after" -- because instead of "happily ever after" either the knight or the princess die a brutal death shortly after being married which sets up the next bit of story. =)

I dont have any problems with this. I look forward to it.

While ending anything with a sequel in mind you do want the readers to be on the hook to see whats happeneing next. Which this one did. (little girl boy going off to slave camps or wherever, night watchers ride beyond the wall, stark advances-king of the north, little redhead daughter gets about ready to throw little king off bridge.)

All of that is great, but it was just diologue. Had it had more of what you said of brutal deaths and whatever it would have been better. IMO there is supposed to be a bunch of Action or preclusion's to what is upcoming. Give me a taste of what aya is going. Like we got a taste with Khaleesi- we now know whats happening there and can get excited to see where it plays out.

But the just talking between the fat unich and skinny guy the whole time, or the mom hitting landestor in the face with a rock was not enough. I dont mind that stuff, but I think it could have, perhaps should have been its own episode and then finished off with all the plots coming together. Or like I said perhaps an 1.5 hour finale. But, it is what it is, I would have preferred more but I still cant wait for the next season-whenever that is.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:16 PM   #217
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GRRM has said that he's focusing on Aria in "Dance with Dragons", to the tune of 300+ pages.
Just read Arya only has two chapters.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:20 PM   #218
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Just read Arya only has two chapters.
Hopefully they are long ones.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:37 PM   #219
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I dont have any problems with this. I look forward to it.

While ending anything with a sequel in mind you do want the readers to be on the hook to see whats happeneing next. Which this one did. (little girl boy going off to slave camps or wherever, night watchers ride beyond the wall, stark advances-king of the north, little redhead daughter gets about ready to throw little king off bridge.)

All of that is great, but it was just diologue. Had it had more of what you said of brutal deaths and whatever it would have been better. IMO there is supposed to be a bunch of Action or preclusion's to what is upcoming. Give me a taste of what aya is going. Like we got a taste with Khaleesi- we now know whats happening there and can get excited to see where it plays out.

But the just talking between the fat unich and skinny guy the whole time, or the mom hitting landestor in the face with a rock was not enough. I dont mind that stuff, but I think it could have, perhaps should have been its own episode and then finished off with all the plots coming together. Or like I said perhaps an 1.5 hour finale. But, it is what it is, I would have preferred more but I still cant wait for the next season-whenever that is.

Littlefinger is a character to watch. The episode with him talking to the two whores gives alot of insight into the character. The general impression I have is that the Starks and the Lannisters were not friendly before Bronn got thrown out of a window. For Jaime to admit he threw the kid out of the window is a justification for Catelynn, and frankly he deserved to get hit in the face with a rock.

The show cannot be what the book is not. The book does not simply end. The show cant simply end. Everything is a precursor for something else. Like Arya riding off with one of Robert's bastards. That sets up the next plotline.

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Old 06-20-2011, 07:45 PM   #220
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Littlefinger is a character to watch. The episode with him talking to the two whores gives alot of insight into the character. The general impression I have is that the Starks and the Lannisters were not friendly before Bronn got thrown out of a window. For Jaime to admit he threw the kid out of the window is a justification for Catelynn, and frankly he deserved to get hit in the face with a rock.

The show cannot be what the book is not. The book does not simply end. The show cant simply end. Everything is a precursor for something else. Like Arya riding off with one of Robert's bastards. That sets up the next plotline.

Bran got thrownm out of the window, Bronn is the mercenary who is helping Tyrion.
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:21 PM   #221
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Whew. Just finished all ten episode in the last few days. I was skeptical. No longer skeptical! Sorry if it's already been said, are they about where the first book ended? Are HBO's plans to keep up with each book he writes as long as they can or cut it off with their own story arc?

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Old 06-20-2011, 09:45 PM   #222
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Whew. Just finished all ten episode in the last few days. I was skeptical. No longer skeptical! Sorry if it's already been said, are they about where the first book ended? Are HBO's plans to keep up with each book he writes as long as they can or cut it off with their own story arc?

Series 1 covers all the major elements of book 1. The Dany stuff at the end is the last chapter.

There are two problems with the series finishing the story and following the books in a book=season manner:

a.) The books get more and more complex and long as the series progresses (book 3 is 1200 pages).

a2.) Book 4 and 5 are the same book (which will total in at over 2,000 pages), just split into two volumes with each volume dealing with half the characters (split up in book4 = Westeros, book5 = the wall and across the narrow sea).

b.) Martin has been slow to publish -- the gap between book 4 and five was 6 years. He plans, I think, two more (though it was originally supposed to be a trilogy so who the hell knows), so he has a lot less than 6 years to fart around with each... and if it's 6 years or more each it will be damn hard to believe Jon, Bran Sansa, Arya et al. are children and young teens (even with hollywood suspension of disbelief!) =P Granted, it seems pretty clear he was distracted with this series and/or book5 has been finished a long time and being released at "maximum hype time".

So... I have no answer but there ya have it =P
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:33 PM   #223
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They will probably split the longer books up into two seasons.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:11 PM   #224
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I just want to say as a book reader--this series surpasses the fantasy genre. I read upthread Martin being compared to Jordan and Goodkind, and I'm just going to say not on their best days. Martin writes far better, more compelling storylines. Those first three books are a thing of beauty. The fourth was a definite bore...but with the fifth slated to be released soon I think there is a chance for redemption.

I wholeheartedly recommend people read the books first. They are phenomenal.

One thing I am upset about is how Jaime isn't portrayed as the ultimate bad ass he is in the books. That scene where he and Ned fought in the series was crap, Ned in the books wouldn't have stood a chance against Jaime. When Jaime got to fighting in the books, as a reader, you got terrified. The Whispering Wood was a real missed opportunity.

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Old 06-21-2011, 12:53 AM   #225
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One thing I am upset about is how Jaime isn't portrayed as the ultimate bad ass he is in the books. That scene where he and Ned fought in the series was crap, Ned in the books wouldn't have stood a chance against Jaime. When Jaime got to fighting in the books, as a reader, you got terrified. The Whispering Wood was a real missed opportunity.
[As far as I can recall we only get to read a scene where Jaime is actually fighting once in the series.When he and Brienne are fighting in the shallows of the Trident. Everything else is just his reputation that makes people fear him.
Correct me if I'm wrong please.
We do get him or others recalling his tourney victories, and how he cut through men in the whispering wood, but nothing present tense aside from the formentioned event.
]
He is a badass though
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