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Old 03-01-2011, 12:06 PM   #76
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I'd like my defensive ends to have more than 7 sacks in college.
Hes 292 lbs and is projected to be a 3-4 end in the NFL. He isnt going to be drafted as a pure pass rusher
You criticize him for lack of sacks yet he was third in the country in TFL
His position coach who also coached Aaron Kampan said he is the best player he has ever coached and is a more athletic version of Kampman

Mike Mayock said he is the best 5 tech he has ever seen

Had we stuck with the 3-4 and were able to trade down a few spots JJ Watt would be a solid choice for a top 10 pick

I doubt he makes it past the middle of the 1st round
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:08 PM   #77
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You still haven't offered any reasons as to why all those guys are better than Watt, and I don't think you can other than "Most sites have those guys ahead of Watt". To which I would reply, "Those sites are full of it".
For starters Bowers, Fairley, Kerrigan, Quinn, and Smith have all recorded more sacks in a single year than Watt has over his entire career. All in conferences with far a far better level of competition. And what evidence have you offered to support your take that Watt deserves to even be considered before #15 or so?

You say you like his "Production", of which there is hardly any. He's notched 11 sacks in his entire career, and never had a game with more than 2 sacks.

He had one good game against a hugely overrated Ohio State team. Watt is a carbon copy of Adam Carriker who has been a total bust in the NFL.

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I don't really care if anybody agrees with me or not. I'm not a sheep.
Yeah, you're much more like the zebra who doesn't follow the herd, and is an easy dinner target.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:08 PM   #78
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Don't know why Fairley isn't on the "elite" list on this thread. Or Bowers. Especially ahead of Miller. To each his own, I guess.
I don't know that Fairley can fit into a two gap system, and his size is a bit suspect. Not saying he isn't gonna be good, and he sort of reminds me of a young T.Pryce type guy. Bowers weighs in, I think, around 265. He's no Jarvis Moss, and again I like the guy overall, but I'm not sure what Fox is looking for over there. My guess is Bowers projects as an asskicking DT lining up across from a LT. But can he man up against guys with Porkchop Womack type strength to stuff the run? I'm not sure.

I sorta have a similar question with Miller. Here's a guy who weighs between 235 and 240 runs a 4.6something 40 and goes after the ball like a heat seaking missle. But can he play over a runblocking TE? Or, is he better off as a Will? And whoever Den has as a Will, plays behind Doom, and Doom's run defense is questionable.

So, it's not a diss against these guys from my perspective, but it's more of a do they fit a scheme Fox wants.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:09 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Br0nc0Buster View Post
Hes 292 lbs and is projected to be a 3-4 end in the NFL. He isnt going to be drafted as a pure pass rusher
You criticize him for lack of sacks yet he was third in the country in TFL
His position coach who also coached Aaron Kampan said he is the best player he has ever coached and is a more athletic version of Kampman

Mike Mayock said he is the best 5 tech he has ever seen

Had we stuck with the 3-4 and were able to trade down a few spots JJ Watt would be a solid choice for a top 10 pick

I doubt he makes it past the middle of the 1st round
Im not saying hes not a good player, im saying i wouldnt take him second
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:09 PM   #80
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I doubt he makes it past the middle of the 1st round
Exactly. He's a decent player who does not belong in any discussion regarding the top 10 picks.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:10 PM   #81
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I don't know that Fairley can fit into a two gap system, and his size is a bit suspect. Not saying he isn't gonna be good, and he sort of reminds me of a young T.Pryce type guy. Bowers weighs in, I think, around 265. He's no Jarvis Moss, and again I like the guy overall, but I'm not sure what Fox is looking for over there. My guess is Bowers projects as an asskicking DT lining up across from a LT. But can he man up against guys with Porkchop Womack type strength to stuff the run? I'm not sure.

I sorta have a similar question with Miller. Here's a guy who weighs between 235 and 240 runs a 4.6something 40 and goes after the ball like a heat seaking missle. But can he play over a runblocking TE? Or, is he better off as a Will? And whoever Den has as a Will, plays behind Doom, and Doom's run defense is questionable.

So, it's not a diss against these guys from my perspective, but it's more of a do they fit a scheme Fox wants.
Didnt miller weigh in at 246 and run a low 4.5?
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:13 PM   #82
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I sorta have a similar question with Miller. Here's a guy who weighs between 235 and 240 runs a 4.6something 40 and goes after the ball like a heat seaking missle. .
Miller ran a 4.53 at 246 lbs actually.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:13 PM   #83
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Exactly. He's a decent player who does not belong in any discussion regarding the top 10 picks.
hes worthy of a top 10 pick if you are running a 3-4
He is a better prospect than Tyson Jackson and Chris Long were coming out and they were both top 3 selections
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:14 PM   #84
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Didnt miller weigh in at 246 and run a low 4.5?
I think you may be right. I didn't look at the combine scores this morning. My original post was that I'm cool with Peterson, Dareus or Miller. I don't diss the other guys, but honestly despite watching all Saints games, I have absolutely no recollection of Fox's Car scheme. Yes, the Car games were that bad. But, Peppers isn't that big a guy, so maybe Bowers projects. I just don't know. I really don't think anyone on this board can know which way Fox is leaning in terms of building a defensive front 7, but I'll be really surprised if this draft isn't aimed at those 7 positions. If Miller can be a Sam, I love the guy. He did play more of a blitz, chase down the ball carrier, and that more a Will kind of game.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:27 PM   #85
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For starters Bowers, Fairley, Kerrigan, Quinn, and Smith have all recorded more sacks in a single year than Watt has over his entire career. All in conferences with far a far better level of competition. And what evidence have you offered to support your take that Watt deserves to even be considered before #15 or so?

You say you like his "Production", of which there is hardly any. He's notched 11 sacks in his entire career, and never had a game with more than 2 sacks.

He had one good game against a hugely overrated Ohio State team. Watt is a carbon copy of Adam Carriker who has been a total bust in the NFL.


Yeah, you're much more like the zebra who doesn't follow the herd, and is an easy dinner target.
You do realize that Bowers plays in the ACC, which is far inferior to the Big 10. Also, Purdue (Kerrigan) and Wisconsin (Watt) are both in the Big Ten. You......FAIL
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:29 PM   #86
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Fairleys size is a concern to me but I dont think we can go wrong with any of the top defenders. I want Bowers the most but will be happy as long as we take defense. I want Bowers because it would be great to see two elite pass rushers coming off the ends. Getting to the QB would make everyones job easier.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:29 PM   #87
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JJ Watt will surprise a lot of people in the NFL. Not saying he is right for us, but he will be a great player. I'm leaning more towards Dareus. For those that have seen him, does he ever take plays off?
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:36 PM   #88
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JJ Watt will surprise a lot of people in the NFL. Not saying he is right for us, but he will be a great player. I'm leaning more towards Dareus. For those that have seen him, does he ever take plays off?
The book on him is that he plays all plays, I haven't watched too many games in person, but I haven't heard anyone say he takes plays off.

I like Dareus, he could play 3-tech or 1-tech which gives a lot of freedom in terms of matching other players with him, if you go Fairley you are locking him into that 3-tech spot.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:54 PM   #89
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Don't know why Fairley isn't on the "elite" list on this thread. Or Bowers. Especially ahead of Miller. To each his own, I guess.
Fairley is not elite to me. He is too one dimensional. He is probably the best pass rushing DT in this class but he doesn't impress me against the run at all. I have him as the 3rd best DT overall in this class. To me, Corey Liuget is a much more complete player. Throw in the character risks and I don't take Fairley in the top 10, especially for the Denver Broncos.
Elvis is already a liability against the run, so to me that means our other three guys on the line need to be more complete players. Ayers is better against the run than the pass. I really like Dareus playing next to him. My favorite guy paired next to Doom is Phil Taylor. A straight mauler who can really help Doom concentrate on doing what he does best.
A more realistic scenario I like the Broncos doing is taking Dareus at 2 and moving up from 36 to 28 to grab Phil Taylor.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:12 PM   #90
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hes worthy of a top 10 pick if you are running a 3-4
He is a better prospect than Tyson Jackson and Chris Long were coming out and they were both top 3 selections
No way he's a better prospect than Long, or anywhere close.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:28 PM   #91
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Marcell Dareus is to me what could be considered a sure thing.
He is what we need. He will be available at #2
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:42 PM   #92
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The book on him is that he plays all plays, I haven't watched too many games in person, but I haven't heard anyone say he takes plays off.

I like Dareus, he could play 3-tech or 1-tech which gives a lot of freedom in terms of matching other players with him, if you go Fairley you are locking him into that 3-tech spot.
Is this the 3-tech in blue?

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Old 03-01-2011, 01:45 PM   #93
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Saw this on rotoworld.com. It'd be nice to trade back to pick up more picks, but #9 is too far back.


Citing sources, SI's Tony Pauline reports that the Cowboys have LSU CB Patrick Peterson ranked as the top player in the 2011 NFL draft.

Their high opinion was only reinforced by Peterson's 4.32 and 4.37 forty times Tuesday at the Combine. Per Pauline, Dallas "covets" the 2010 Thorpe Award winner. The Cowboys draft ninth overall, so they may strongly consider a move up for Peterson. Terence Newman is a candidate for offseason release. Related: CowboysSource: TFY Draft Insider Mar 1, 1:10 PM
Let the bidding begin....

How about their first rounder, second rounder, fourth rounder and Tashard Choice for the #2 pick?
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:45 PM   #94
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Yep, the 3 technique is lined up on the outside half of the guard
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:47 PM   #95
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Fairley is not elite to me. He is too one dimensional. He is probably the best pass rushing DT in this class but he doesn't impress me against the run at all. I have him as the 3rd best DT overall in this class. To me, Corey Liuget is a much more complete player. Throw in the character risks and I don't take Fairley in the top 10, especially for the Denver Broncos.
Elvis is already a liability against the run, so to me that means our other three guys on the line need to be more complete players. Ayers is better against the run than the pass. I really like Dareus playing next to him. My favorite guy paired next to Doom is Phil Taylor. A straight mauler who can really help Doom concentrate on doing what he does best.
A more realistic scenario I like the Broncos doing is taking Dareus at 2 and moving up from 36 to 28 to grab Phil Taylor.
Most of the scouting reports I've read on Fairley state that he is excellent against the run, can shed linemen at will and tackles behind the LOS regularly, pursues very well, and destroys the pocket, ergo the running play. In other words, dominant. The film I've watched on him supports that take. I place him as number one defensive player in this draft, with Bowers a close second. Of course, Bowers plays in the ACC, so there's that consideration. Fairley has faced tougher competition. Still, they are 1,2.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:50 PM   #96
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give me Von Miller, even if it as number 2
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:56 PM   #97
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Is this the 3-tech in blue?

Yes
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:59 PM   #98
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give me Von Miller, even if it as number 2
Cosign. Dominant not just good.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:59 PM   #99
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give me Von Miller, even if it as number 2
Still a Peterson guy but could live with Miller and Dareus. I think they'll all be studs. I don't really dislike Bowers either... I think we're in pretty good shape with this pick in all of those scenarios. I'd really prefer to drop a few spots and get whoever falls, though it's not likely we'll be able to trade the pick...
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:03 PM   #100
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Does Miller have the hips to turn and run with a TE? He doesn't have to be able cover a guy like dallas clark, since teams play a 4-2-5 then, but still a guy like Zach Miller can get down the field.
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