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Old 02-25-2011, 06:46 AM   #51
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I don't know the specifics of your situation, but I would find it extremely surprising if it cost more to charge an electric car than it did to fill a gasoline car up. Are you including the cost of buying the car?
Every review I've seen of the current crop of production plug-in cars like the Volt, Leaf and upcoming Prius confirm this. It really doesn't have anything to do with my particular situation and everything to do with the current gas and electric prices. It's been written everywhere I've seen that your electric bill is likely to go up by more than your monthly gasoline bills will go down with these things. Granted, it's at least partially because none of the current and immediate future "electric" cars are truly 100% electric and still require gas at least part of the time. Add that to the fact that these cars are so much more expensive than gasoline cars of comparable size/amenities and it still doesn't even come close to making practical sense right now to go that route.
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:20 AM   #52
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The point to this story (and what's alot more significant than how I wound up wording a single post) is the fact that two dudes managed to drive what looks like a glorified go-cart 3100 miles across freaking Australia without using a drop of gas. I said this has nothing to do with where you live because obviously nowhere in this entire story is there the slightest indication that the two guys who invented this thing had any intention of marketing this as some kind of practical car you can drive around town in, yet most of the posts are arguing the impracticality of this. No kidding really? A car pulled by a huge kite isn't gonne make it on the freeway or let you take the kids to soccer practice? Duh...who said it would?
Well you did say you wanted one. It's basically a land sail that has a battery and plugs into a windmill.

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Old 02-25-2011, 09:18 AM   #53
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Well you did say you wanted one. It's basically a land sail that has a battery and plugs into a windmill.
Oh the innovation. They took the technology that Columbus used to discover America... and put wheels under it!!!11!1!one11!!eleven1!!!!
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:08 AM   #54
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Oh the innovation. They took the technology that Columbus used to discover America... and put wheels under it!!!11!1!one11!!eleven1!!!!
All our problems are solved. Soon the interstates will be filled with kite-cars running side by side producing zero emissions. Speeding tickets won't be a problem because the wind will pull all drivers at the same speed. We just need to convince people to "go where the wind blows", and of course to destroy all bridges first...
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:21 AM   #55
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Is there a Mel Gibson movie coming from this? And, did they run over any Jews?

Kidding aside, it's always cool to see inventions, see creative minds at work.

It's very interesting to see the creativity that comes out of necessity, RE the amount of alternative energy sources people have come up with lately from wind energy, solar, wave, tidal.

It's called progress.
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:32 AM   #56
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Is there a Mel Gibson movie coming from this? And, did they run over any Jews?

Kidding aside, it's always cool to see inventions, see creative minds at work.

It's very interesting to see the creativity that comes out of necessity, RE the amount of alternative energy sources people have come up with lately from wind energy, solar, wave, tidal.

It's called progress.
People keep taking my inventions but I've had some good ones.

One I just discovered was stolen the other day was a washer/dryer that was the same machine. It washes your clothes and then dries them and you don't have to move them. Built for lazy people. I saw it on one of them home buying shows the other day.

My green energy idea though is a gatrillion water wheels in our gutter runoff thingies. Have you ever heard how fast that crap runs off your roof? Especially considering it would be a great backup when that terrible weather knocks out your lights.

I'm top notch. I expect to be a millionaire someday. I figure I'll post it here so when someone creates it, I can accuse them of browsing the Mane and cash in.
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:40 AM   #57
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All our problems are solved. Soon the interstates will be filled with kite-cars running side by side producing zero emissions. Speeding tickets won't be a problem because the wind will pull all drivers at the same speed. We just need to convince people to "go where the wind blows", and of course to destroy all bridges first...
Christopher Columbus and Bubble Boy - Green Energy leaders since 1492 and 2009, respectively.

Soon though, we'll have that Chef fan in here telling us how he hooked his Camaro up to two kites and passed a horse-drawn buggy on the way to work.
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:28 AM   #58
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People keep taking my inventions but I've had some good ones.

One I just discovered was stolen the other day was a washer/dryer that was the same machine. It washes your clothes and then dries them and you don't have to move them. Built for lazy people. I saw it on one of them home buying shows the other day.

My green energy idea though is a gatrillion water wheels in our gutter runoff thingies. Have you ever heard how fast that crap runs off your roof? Especially considering it would be a great backup when that terrible weather knocks out your lights.

I'm top notch. I expect to be a millionaire someday. I figure I'll post it here so when someone creates it, I can accuse them of browsing the Mane and cash in.
I enjoy creative minds, even if they're maybe a little bit way out there. Many of those "way out there" ideas have come to fruition.

Then you have guys like Kaylore and you that think any new idea is

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Old 02-25-2011, 11:39 AM   #59
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I enjoy creative minds, even if they're maybe a little bit way out there. Many of those "way out there" ideas have come to fruition.

Then you have guys like Kaylore and you that think any new idea is
Well on first thought, because I thought they were using the additional windspeed to overcome the heat lost, I thought they were using the mast when actually driving to suggest that it could be powered sufficiently while operating. Even if impractical, the fact that the car could be powered and produce more energy than was necessary to drive it would be substantial. That was where I thought they had actually discovered something and I was impressed.

Once someone pointed out that in reality it's just an electric car that comes with it's own windmill, there is no novelty to it and no advancement made. Imagine if I made a similar announcement that I made a car that would go 10 miles on a single mL of gas only for you to later find out I started my 10 miles on the very peak of a mountain and rolled downhill the same time. That was basically my transition from reading this to the end. I was impressed when I thought they had accomplished something, rolled my eyes when I realized it was just an electric car attached to a windmill and driven further than anyone else had driven.

Am I missing any actual advancement here?
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:27 PM   #60
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Well on first thought, because I thought they were using the additional windspeed to overcome the heat lost, I thought they were using the mast when actually driving to suggest that it could be powered sufficiently while operating. Even if impractical, the fact that the car could be powered and produce more energy than was necessary to drive it would be substantial. That was where I thought they had actually discovered something and I was impressed.

Once someone pointed out that in reality it's just an electric car that comes with it's own windmill, there is no novelty to it and no advancement made. Imagine if I made a similar announcement that I made a car that would go 10 miles on a single mL of gas only for you to later find out I started my 10 miles on the very peak of a mountain and rolled downhill the same time. That was basically my transition from reading this to the end. I was impressed when I thought they had accomplished something, rolled my eyes when I realized it was just an electric car attached to a windmill and driven further than anyone else had driven.

Am I missing any actual advancement here?
No, I just have a problem with people that sneer at anything that is not the staus quo, as if no new idea is totally worthless.

Take a look at this quote - "I was impressed when I thought they had accomplished something, rolled my eyes when I realized it was just an electric car attached to a windmill and driven further than anyone else had driven."

So some guy put two ideas together and it was "driven further than anyone else had driven". That is nothing to sneer at.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:34 PM   #61
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No, I just have a problem with people that sneer at anything that is not the staus quo, as if no new idea is totally worthless.

Take a look at this quote - "I was impressed when I thought they had accomplished something, rolled my eyes when I realized it was just an electric car attached to a windmill and driven further than anyone else had driven."

So some guy put two ideas together and it was "driven further than anyone else had driven". That is nothing to sneer at.
Forest Gump ran really far. I could, theoretically, ride my kid's powerwheel until it wouldn't go any further.

I expected scientific advancement rather than durability. This is about on par with someone setting a Guinness world record for jumping on a pogo stick. There was nothing new developed, he just did it longer than anyone else.

I guess the incorporation of the kite seperates it just a smidgeon but hopefully the people knew that wouldn't be taken seriously when they incorporated it.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:48 PM   #62
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Every review I've seen of the current crop of production plug-in cars like the Volt, Leaf and upcoming Prius confirm this. It really doesn't have anything to do with my particular situation and everything to do with the current gas and electric prices. It's been written everywhere I've seen that your electric bill is likely to go up by more than your monthly gasoline bills will go down with these things. Granted, it's at least partially because none of the current and immediate future "electric" cars are truly 100% electric and still require gas at least part of the time. Add that to the fact that these cars are so much more expensive than gasoline cars of comparable size/amenities and it still doesn't even come close to making practical sense right now to go that route.
Can you link the articles saying that electric cars would be more expensive to run? I tried looking, and the first I found was this, which says the opposite: http://truecostblog.com/2009/01/04/e...c-vs-gasoline/

Also, the Tesla Volt and Nissan Leaf are both 100% electric.

I absolutely agree about the terrible selection of vehicles currently available as electrics.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:52 PM   #63
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Forest Gump ran really far. I could, theoretically, ride my kid's powerwheel until it wouldn't go any further.

I expected scientific advancement rather than durability. This is about on par with someone setting a Guinness world record for jumping on a pogo stick. There was nothing new developed, he just did it longer than anyone else.

I guess the incorporation of the kite seperates it just a smidgeon but hopefully the people knew that wouldn't be taken seriously when they incorporated it.
Well, we don't live in Star Trek, dude. We have to deal with incremental improvements.
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:10 PM   #64
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Can you link the articles saying that electric cars would be more expensive to run? I tried looking, and the first I found was this, which says the opposite: http://truecostblog.com/2009/01/04/e...c-vs-gasoline/
One MAJOR flaw in that study: they're using 20 mpg as their figure for the gas powered cars. If they're doing a comparison of the current crop of electric cars vs their gas counterparts, then they need to go with 35+ mpg for the gas powered figure. Why? Because all the current electric cars in their comparison are either subcompact, compact or smallish midsize cars. That size car is NOT getting 20 mpg. Try double that.
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Old 02-25-2011, 02:10 PM   #65
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One MAJOR flaw in that study: they're using 20 mpg as their figure for the gas powered cars. If they're doing a comparison of the current crop of electric cars vs their gas counterparts, then they need to go with 35+ mpg for the gas powered figure. Why? Because all the current electric cars in their comparison are either subcompact, compact or smallish midsize cars. That size car is NOT getting 20 mpg. Try double that.
That's true. However, even if you halved the cost of the gasoline car, it would still be more expensive than the electric. Also, this is based on gas being $1.50 per gallon. It's more than double that now, so the gasoline car would be even more expensive. I'm not trying to just argue with you, this is just literally the first time I've ever heard anyone say that it would be more expensive to operate an electric car than a gasoline one, so I'm curious.
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Old 02-25-2011, 02:40 PM   #66
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This really isn't that incredible. It's not in the spirit of the first human flight across the Atlantic or other achievements of that nature.

It's just an electric engine with a sail and a wind turbine to recharge the batteries. It is in no way practical or applicable to every day life. If is an amazing adventure to be sure, but there is no advancement here.
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Old 02-26-2011, 05:12 AM   #67
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That's true. However, even if you halved the cost of the gasoline car, it would still be more expensive than the electric. Also, this is based on gas being $1.50 per gallon. It's more than double that now, so the gasoline car would be even more expensive. I'm not trying to just argue with you, this is just literally the first time I've ever heard anyone say that it would be more expensive to operate an electric car than a gasoline one, so I'm curious.
They're also using electric rates that are 1/3 of what the average US homeowner pays, so I figured it was a wash at best.
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Old 02-26-2011, 01:07 PM   #68
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They're also using electric rates that are 1/3 of what the average US homeowner pays, so I figured it was a wash at best.
The rate used in the article is 10 cents per kWh. I checked on www.eia.doe.gov, their latest data is from 2009, and it says the average rate was 11.5 cents per kWh. I also looked at my latest electricity bill, I was charged 8.5 cents per kWh last month. Where are you getting 30 cents per kWh from?
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Old 02-26-2011, 04:32 PM   #69
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The rate used in the article is 10 cents per kWh. I checked on www.eia.doe.gov, their latest data is from 2009, and it says the average rate was 11.5 cents per kWh. I also looked at my latest electricity bill, I was charged 8.5 cents per kWh last month. Where are you getting 30 cents per kWh from?
I'm not. What I'm saying is, that is only a fraction of the final electric bill.
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Old 02-26-2011, 06:25 PM   #70
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I'm not. What I'm saying is, that is only a fraction of the final electric bill.
The car would only effect kWhs on the bill, no?
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Old 02-26-2011, 08:02 PM   #71
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I'm not. What I'm saying is, that is only a fraction of the final electric bill.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Could you expand on this?
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:46 AM   #72
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I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Could you expand on this?
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The car would only effect kWhs on the bill, no?
Go look at your last electric bill. Depending on where you live, how many kWhs you use, and when you use them, the bill itself will vary, along with the 5-7 other "service fees", "delivery fees" and taxes, etc. that get charged on top of that. In short, the kWhs figure not only effects THAT part of the bill, it also effects how much the 5-7 other parts go up.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:50 AM   #73
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Go look at your last electric bill. Depending on where you live, how many kWhs you use, and when you use them, the bill itself will vary, along with the 5-7 other "service fees", "delivery fees" and taxes, etc. that get charged on top of that. In short, the kWhs figure not only effects THAT part of the bill, it also effects how much the 5-7 other parts go up.
I used the absolute total that I was charged for electricity, divided by the number of kWh used. That comes to 8.5 cents per kWh. Unless you think that the amount I am charged for Stormwater Drainage is also affected by my kWh usage, in that case, the absolute total for my bill, including ALL taxes and fees, divided by the number of kWh I used, comes out to 10.3 cents per kWh. I am pretty sure that 8.5 cents per kWh is the more accurate number, though. Did you think that those fees would add up to 30 cents per kWh?
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Old 02-27-2011, 01:04 PM   #74
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I used the absolute total that I was charged for electricity, divided by the number of kWh used. That comes to 8.5 cents per kWh. Unless you think that the amount I am charged for Stormwater Drainage is also affected by my kWh usage, in that case, the absolute total for my bill, including ALL taxes and fees, divided by the number of kWh I used, comes out to 10.3 cents per kWh. I am pretty sure that 8.5 cents per kWh is the more accurate number, though. Did you think that those fees would add up to 30 cents per kWh?
Interesting. My kWh charge is between 10 and 11 cents and that is only a fraction of my overall electric (not water, sewer, gas or any other utility) bill. National Grid is my provider.

I've never heard of electric billing as you describe it.
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Old 02-27-2011, 04:35 PM   #75
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Interesting. My kWh charge is between 10 and 11 cents and that is only a fraction of my overall electric (not water, sewer, gas or any other utility) bill. National Grid is my provider.

I've never heard of electric billing as you describe it.
Well, Fort Collins is pretty awesome, so I'm not surprised to hear that our electricity is cheaper and less complicated than other places.

I'd be interested to know what fees of yours are rate based and what are flat. Any chance you could crunch some numbers to let me know? I would be willing to do it for you, but it might be weird to give a complete stranger info like that.
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