I-70 Mountain Solutions? - The Orange Mane

Boomhauer · 09-14-2010, 07:24 PM

Once again, debate on how to solve the I-70 congestion problem has been circulating in the DenverPost, probably due to the election season. Just wondering some of your thoughts. Since a topic search only yielded 2.5yr old thread in Central Discussion about a traffic jam, I thought I'd start another.

Two key points for me:
- Neither lane widening, zipping or a pedestrian rail is sufficient. Traffic will outgrow extra lanes and zipping before the project is complete and does nothing to prevent snow or accident closures. A pedestrian rail only serves select ski resorts during the winter months at excessive cost to all CO taxpayers, without ensuring cargo transit.
Any solution to the traffic congestion must be based on rail capable of transporting vehicles, pedestrians, cargo and semis year round in any weather.

- There's no room for rail between Morrison-Idaho Springs, through Glenwood Canyon, Vail Valley and through Georgetown would be very difficult. Plans to date have focused on Denver-Eagle transit because money speaks, but a complete and practile solution must extend from Denver to Glenwood Springs. With Vail Valley too crowded, no route through Glenwood Canyon and terminals in Silverthorne and Glenwood Springs, any plan with transit through Vail/Eagle is unrealistic.
There are many alternate routes than I-70 between Denver-Silverthorne, but a Silverthorne-Glenwood Springs line would have to traverse Fremont and Hagerman Passes. A terminal naer Leadville would also improve transport to the southern mountains.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 09-14-2010, 07:56 PM

Send all the Texans back home.

TailgateNut · 09-14-2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Send all the Texans back home.

And the californicators who can't ****ing drive when there's an inch of snow on the ground.

Oh, and get rid of all the illegal messicans!

Boomhauer · 12-18-2010, 01:29 PM

Front page article in the DPost thurday about "zipper lanes".
-snips-
Adding zipper lanes ... would likely result in an increase in the number of Sunday ski-seaon crashes in the I-70 mountain corridor... in part, because adding zipper lanes unavoidably narrows lane widths.
...(they) would likely cause additional accidents on Floyd Hill as westbound vehicles would back up routinely for at least 2.5 miles initially and as much as 6 miles in the future...
Accidents in the reversible-lane portion of the corridor would be especially problematic becuse it would likely be more difficult to get emergency vehicles to the site.
Clear Creek Commisioner Kevin O'Malley said ... it could come to a point where CDOT would be spending too much for congestion relief on a limited number of Sundays. "We're looking at a situation where we're spending a lot of money for a very limited benefit," he told commissioners.
Douglas Bennett, a senior regional officer for that agency, told commissioners ... CDOT might end up with a cost of $1 million per Sunday installation of the special lanes... "You need to convince us there isn't a better solution," Bennett said.

I'd like to add I don't think the proposal for zipper lanes from just west of highway 40 to the base of Floyd Hill will do anything to relieve congestion anyways. Floyd Hill is the major bottleneck, from highway 6 to C-470, and widening the parking lot behind it won't do anything but cause accidents mentioned above. Descending into Georgetown also causes back ups nearly to Eisenhower and this won't help that either. I'm sure the manufacturers of these zipper barriers can pay for an argument and support, but it's a waste of cash and danger to the taxpayers.

Dudeskey · 12-18-2010, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

And the californicators who can't ****ing drive when there's an inch of snow on the ground.

Oh, and get rid of all the illegal messicans!

I hate the Californians a LOT less than those damn Texans.

As far as snow & accident issues are concerned, I'm honestly surprised the state's hand hasn't been forced to drop the speed limit on that entire stretch of highway

Bronco Yoda · 12-19-2010, 09:52 AM

I blame all those cars. But that's just me

Boomhauer · 12-19-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco Yoda

I blame all those cars. But that's just me

Agreed, which is why the only realistic solutions involve rail that reduces vehicle traffic.

Bronco Yoda · 12-19-2010, 11:17 AM

We're not even willing to upkeep the infrastructure we have now let alone invest 21'st century tech. Europe makes us look silly. So does China and more and more of the ME. Not that long ago we were the envy of world with our transportations system. Now we're sinking into 3rd world status in some places.

But at least we gave the ultra rich their much neede tax cut. They don't need roads anyway. They have their own airplanes.

edog24 · 12-20-2010, 01:06 PM

Here's one. Re-open the pass over Rollinsville giving all the area around Boulder (including Lyons, longmont, lafayette, louisville/superior, loveland, arvada) to get direct access to Winter park. I would venture to guess it's cheaper than most solutions. You could even make it a seasonal toll road and I think I would opt for it over I-70, plus it gives people an alternative way home via 40/Winter Park when I-70 gets closed for hours on end.

Fedaykin · 12-20-2010, 01:06 PM

This native Coloradoan is fully on board with getting rid of the Texans first and then the Californians.

bronclvr · 12-20-2010, 01:09 PM

I've got it! Close those damn Ski Areas!

Boomhauer · 12-21-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edog24

Here's one. Re-open the pass over Rollinsville...

If you mean Corona Pass, that would be shut down almost all winter. It's a flat, bald ridge with no terrain or forest to shelter it from severe winds (100mph) and yards of snow at a time. The ghost town of Corona, at the summit before Moffat opened, was built completely of snow sheds that would be buried all winter and a brick hotel that was cabled down to keep from blowing away.

elsid13 · 12-21-2010, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

This native Coloradoan is fully on board with getting rid of the Texans first and then the Californians.

I still remember the day when the Californians were enemy #1.

edog24 · 01-04-2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomhauer

If you mean Corona Pass, that would be shut down almost all winter. It's a flat, bald ridge with no terrain or forest to shelter it from severe winds (100mph) and yards of snow at a time. The ghost town of Corona, at the summit before Moffat opened, was built completely of snow sheds that would be buried all winter and a brick hotel that was cabled down to keep from blowing away.

I was actually thinking of re-opening the tunnel that is collapsed and now off-limits to get through. No doubt it would be expensive to rehab, hard to maintain, and to get it cleared environmentally would be very long and expensive, but it's an alternate route instead of relying on improving 70.

Spider · 01-04-2011, 02:20 PM

I 70 isnt bad till you get to floyd hill , then you get the retards , ward , Kipling etc ...... I cant tell you how many times I see some numb nutted waste of skin get on the big road just to go 1 exit and get off ......WTF is wrong with you pecker heads ? .....well just build a relief route ...... from 6 to c470 ...... or eliminate a lot of those exits from Kipling to Ward . keep 1 ....****ing insane to have that many exits to begin with ....... the Mile post maybe off doing this from memory , but look .....
# 261: US 6/6th Avenue interchange
# 261: US 40/BL I-70/Colfax Avenue interchange, Lakewood
# 265: SH 58 interchange
# 265: SH 72/Ward Road interchange, Wheat Ridge
# 267: SH 391/Kipling Street interchange
Just to many interchanges in that short of a span

Fedaykin · 01-04-2011, 05:21 PM

The best solution would be to require actual driving instruction to get a license.

I drive I-70 at least 6 times a year and 90% of the traffic problems are created by idiots that don't know how to drive -- especially in mountain terrain.

Tip#1: Your brake is primarily for coming to a full stop and for unexpected/emergency maneuvers. It is not for minor adjustments in speed and under no circumstances to maintain speed when going down a steep grade (e.g. Eisenhower).

The number of idiots riding their brake down steep grades is maddening. You should never have to apply your break going down Eisenhower or most of the grades on I-70. If you don't know what engine braking is, you shouldn't be on the road (though you are improving the economy by increasing the sales of break pads!).

Tip#2: More on braking. See that tunnel or that curve? If you feel the need to break before entering them, you are driving too fast for your skill, conditions or your overweight and top heavy urban assault vehicle (with exception of curves marked with lower speed limits than the rest of the road). Slow down to a consistent speed you and your vehicle can handle. Traveling at an inconsistent speed in these situations creates a butterfly effect that causes most non-accident related traffic problems.

Tip#3: Related to #2. See that right lane? Be in it unless you are passing.

/rant

chadta · 01-04-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

If you don't know what engine braking is, you shouldn't be on the road (though you are improving the economy by increasing the sales of break pads!).

brakes are cheaper than engines and clutches

Fedaykin · 01-04-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadta

brakes are cheaper than engines and clutches

With proper engine braking the clutch is fully engaged and the engine is not under load because there is no combustion (see below) going on in the engine, which is means there's no power stroke (the part of the cycle that causes the most wear), and thus less wear than when under power.

In most cases with a modern automatic transmission vehicle the only thing required to maintain a controlled highway speed is to turn off the overdrive and take your foot off the throttle. When driving in mountainous terrain you should have your overdrive off anyway as it will constantly be engaging and disengaging (causing a lot of excess wear) if you don't.

With a standard transmission, engine breaking amounts to shifting twice to travel 5 miles down a hill vs shifting dozens of times to travel the same distance in a city. On that topic, just driving around the city puts far more wear on your vehicle than anything you might do on the freeway. It's not even really a comparison as far as wear goes.

When you factor in that you have a lot more control over the vehicle, it's a no brainer.

It doesn't even use more gas in an fuel injected engine (almost any vehicle built since the early 90s). The ECU of any electronic fuel injected engine has a throttle sensor which will stop injecting fuel (unless at idle) if there is no throttle. Even mechanical fuel injectors had similar functionality.

Spider · 01-04-2011, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadta

brakes are cheaper than engines and clutches

26 years of trucking says you are talking out of your ass

Boomhauer · 01-04-2011, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spider

26 years of trucking says you are talking out of your ass

He's from Ontario where 100ft hills count as mountains.

spdirty · 01-21-2011, 01:56 PM

About a week ago I put up a Speed Limit 55 with a "your speed" radar deal on eastbound I-70 just after the Twin Tunnels just east of Idaho Springs. It was a real b**** getting that bastard up and it helps something, so if you see it, say a lil thank you to spdirty.

As for congestion, if I'm going to the slopes or anything I just take 285 and highway 9 through Fairplay. But thats my own lil way, californians or texans should stay away.

Cmac821 · 01-21-2011, 03:48 PM

I feel all the hate for the Texans and don't blame you. But am I exempt from the hate since I was born in Colorado and am moving back in fall?

I was up there not long ago and way to many foreigners, you guys need to exercise that Colorado freedom and get them out.

Riley · 02-01-2011, 10:32 PM

Last time I went skiing with my oldest boy to Copper Mtn...
it took 2 and a half hours to get there...
3 and a half hours to get home.

Heck... it is only a 12 hour drive to Southern Minnesota from Denver....

so I reckon I spent enough time driving to go skiing as driving half way to Minnesota.

It just aint worth it any more to me.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 02-01-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elsid13

I still remember the day when the Californians were enemy #1.

The Texans invaded long before the Californians.

I remember CO natives complaining about them back in the mid-to-late 60s.

Dutch · 02-16-2011, 08:15 PM

Bumper sticker on my CJ5 all through high school and college :
"If God had meant for Texans to ski, He'd have made Bull**** white!"
'Course I'm married to a Texas girl now, but I still give the inlaws crap about it all the time. Nothing used to piss us off more than heading down an expert run and finding a couple of drunk Texans trying to pick up their gear and walk across the face to get down, or worse - the Ski Patrol right in the middle of the run trying to get one loaded into the sled.

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09-14-2010, 07:24 PM	#1
Boomhauer Ring of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,501	I-70 Mountain Solutions? Once again, debate on how to solve the I-70 congestion problem has been circulating in the DenverPost, probably due to the election season. Just wondering some of your thoughts. Since a topic search only yielded 2.5yr old thread in Central Discussion about a traffic jam, I thought I'd start another. Two key points for me: - Neither lane widening, zipping or a pedestrian rail is sufficient. Traffic will outgrow extra lanes and zipping before the project is complete and does nothing to prevent snow or accident closures. A pedestrian rail only serves select ski resorts during the winter months at excessive cost to all CO taxpayers, without ensuring cargo transit. Any solution to the traffic congestion must be based on rail capable of transporting vehicles, pedestrians, cargo and semis year round in any weather. - There's no room for rail between Morrison-Idaho Springs, through Glenwood Canyon, Vail Valley and through Georgetown would be very difficult. Plans to date have focused on Denver-Eagle transit because money speaks, but a complete and practile solution must extend from Denver to Glenwood Springs. With Vail Valley too crowded, no route through Glenwood Canyon and terminals in Silverthorne and Glenwood Springs, any plan with transit through Vail/Eagle is unrealistic. There are many alternate routes than I-70 between Denver-Silverthorne, but a Silverthorne-Glenwood Springs line would have to traverse Fremont and Hagerman Passes. A terminal naer Leadville would also improve transport to the southern mountains.

09-14-2010, 07:56 PM	#2
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,694	Send all the Texans back home.

12-18-2010, 01:29 PM	#4
Boomhauer Ring of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,501	Front page article in the DPost thurday about "zipper lanes". -snips- Adding zipper lanes ... would likely result in an increase in the number of Sunday ski-seaon crashes in the I-70 mountain corridor... in part, because adding zipper lanes unavoidably narrows lane widths. ...(they) would likely cause additional accidents on Floyd Hill as westbound vehicles would back up routinely for at least 2.5 miles initially and as much as 6 miles in the future... Accidents in the reversible-lane portion of the corridor would be especially problematic becuse it would likely be more difficult to get emergency vehicles to the site. Clear Creek Commisioner Kevin O'Malley said ... it could come to a point where CDOT would be spending too much for congestion relief on a limited number of Sundays. "We're looking at a situation where we're spending a lot of money for a very limited benefit," he told commissioners. Douglas Bennett, a senior regional officer for that agency, told commissioners ... CDOT might end up with a cost of $1 million per Sunday installation of the special lanes... "You need to convince us there isn't a better solution," Bennett said. I'd like to add I don't think the proposal for zipper lanes from just west of highway 40 to the base of Floyd Hill will do anything to relieve congestion anyways. Floyd Hill is the major bottleneck, from highway 6 to C-470, and widening the parking lot behind it won't do anything but cause accidents mentioned above. Descending into Georgetown also causes back ups nearly to Eisenhower and this won't help that either. I'm sure the manufacturers of these zipper barriers can pay for an argument and support, but it's a waste of cash and danger to the taxpayers.

12-19-2010, 09:52 AM	#6
Bronco Yoda Stokley once... ...saved me from a beating Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,244	I blame all those cars. But that's just me

12-19-2010, 11:17 AM	#8
Bronco Yoda Stokley once... ...saved me from a beating Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,244	We're not even willing to upkeep the infrastructure we have now let alone invest 21'st century tech. Europe makes us look silly. So does China and more and more of the ME. Not that long ago we were the envy of world with our transportations system. Now we're sinking into 3rd world status in some places. But at least we gave the ultra rich their much neede tax cut. They don't need roads anyway. They have their own airplanes.

12-20-2010, 01:06 PM	#9
edog24 Pro Bowler Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 745	Here's one. Re-open the pass over Rollinsville giving all the area around Boulder (including Lyons, longmont, lafayette, louisville/superior, loveland, arvada) to get direct access to Winter park. I would venture to guess it's cheaper than most solutions. You could even make it a seasonal toll road and I think I would opt for it over I-70, plus it gives people an alternative way home via 40/Winter Park when I-70 gets closed for hours on end.

12-20-2010, 01:06 PM	#10
Fedaykin Ring of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,839 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	This native Coloradoan is fully on board with getting rid of the Texans first and then the Californians.

12-20-2010, 01:09 PM	#11
bronclvr Ring of Famer She is faster than you! 8.39 @ 156 Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,996	I've got it! Close those damn Ski Areas!

01-04-2011, 02:20 PM	#15
Spider Mr Diplomacy I survived Tebow Mania at the Mane Join Date: May 2001 Location: Elway was just an arm =MacGruder Posts: 84,438 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	I 70 isnt bad till you get to floyd hill , then you get the retards , ward , Kipling etc ...... I cant tell you how many times I see some numb nutted waste of skin get on the big road just to go 1 exit and get off ......WTF is wrong with you pecker heads ? .....well just build a relief route ...... from 6 to c470 ...... or eliminate a lot of those exits from Kipling to Ward . keep 1 ....****ing insane to have that many exits to begin with ....... the Mile post maybe off doing this from memory , but look ..... # 261: US 6/6th Avenue interchange # 261: US 40/BL I-70/Colfax Avenue interchange, Lakewood # 265: SH 58 interchange # 265: SH 72/Ward Road interchange, Wheat Ridge # 267: SH 391/Kipling Street interchange Just to many interchanges in that short of a span

01-04-2011, 05:21 PM	#16
Fedaykin Ring of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,839 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	The best solution would be to require actual driving instruction to get a license. I drive I-70 at least 6 times a year and 90% of the traffic problems are created by idiots that don't know how to drive -- especially in mountain terrain. Tip#1: Your brake is primarily for coming to a full stop and for unexpected/emergency maneuvers. It is not for minor adjustments in speed and under no circumstances to maintain speed when going down a steep grade (e.g. Eisenhower). The number of idiots riding their brake down steep grades is maddening. You should never have to apply your break going down Eisenhower or most of the grades on I-70. If you don't know what engine braking is, you shouldn't be on the road (though you are improving the economy by increasing the sales of break pads!). Tip#2: More on braking. See that tunnel or that curve? If you feel the need to break before entering them, you are driving too fast for your skill, conditions or your overweight and top heavy urban assault vehicle (with exception of curves marked with lower speed limits than the rest of the road). Slow down to a consistent speed you and your vehicle can handle. Traveling at an inconsistent speed in these situations creates a butterfly effect that causes most non-accident related traffic problems. Tip#3: Related to #2. See that right lane? Be in it unless you are passing. /rant

01-21-2011, 01:56 PM	#21
spdirty Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bailey Posts: 13,903 Adopt-a-Bronco: Koppen	About a week ago I put up a Speed Limit 55 with a "your speed" radar deal on eastbound I-70 just after the Twin Tunnels just east of Idaho Springs. It was a real b**** getting that bastard up and it helps something, so if you see it, say a lil thank you to spdirty. As for congestion, if I'm going to the slopes or anything I just take 285 and highway 9 through Fairplay. But thats my own lil way, californians or texans should stay away.

01-21-2011, 03:48 PM	#22
Cmac821 Young Enthusiast I'm that young and you are that old Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fort Collins Posts: 1,116 Adopt-a-Bronco: John Fox	I feel all the hate for the Texans and don't blame you. But am I exempt from the hate since I was born in Colorado and am moving back in fall? I was up there not long ago and way to many foreigners, you guys need to exercise that Colorado freedom and get them out.

02-01-2011, 10:32 PM	#23
Riley Lifelong Bronco Fan It's all about the wins Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Denver Posts: 59 Adopt-a-Bronco: Doom	Last time I went skiing with my oldest boy to Copper Mtn... it took 2 and a half hours to get there... 3 and a half hours to get home. Heck... it is only a 12 hour drive to Southern Minnesota from Denver.... so I reckon I spent enough time driving to go skiing as driving half way to Minnesota. It just aint worth it any more to me.

02-16-2011, 08:15 PM	#25
Dutch The Flying Dutchman Leatherneck Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,499 Adopt-a-Bronco: Rubin Carter	Bumper sticker on my CJ5 all through high school and college : "If God had meant for Texans to ski, He'd have made Bull**** white!" 'Course I'm married to a Texas girl now, but I still give the inlaws crap about it all the time. Nothing used to piss us off more than heading down an expert run and finding a couple of drunk Texans trying to pick up their gear and walk across the face to get down, or worse - the Ski Patrol right in the middle of the run trying to get one loaded into the sled.