First the Karate Kid, Next Spiderman?

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by extralife

fixed it for you

Oh I think I get it now...

You've apparently made me out to be some big "Jesus is white" proponent and based your entire post around that without any actual background of anything I've ever said?

Sorry to disappoint you man, but I don't personally even believe he was real... (no offense to people who do)

[El Minion]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

20+ years before I was born. If I, and the internet, existed back then, you probably would've gotten a thread.

It has been going on since Shakespeare times, IIRC all roles where played men including the women parts. It has been done before and will done again in the future, it's called creative license.

Eddie Murphy has done it most recently, playing both white and asian characters. Was there any outcry? A black spiderman? big f-ing deal. And I'm a comic book fan and (retired) collector.

[Jason in LA]

I'm just saying.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by El Minion

It has been going on since Shakespeare times, IIRC all roles where played men including the women parts. It has been done before and will done again in the future, it's called creative license.

Eddie Murphy has done it most recently, playing both white and asian characters. Was there any outcry? A black spiderman? big f-ing deal. And I'm a comic book fan and (retired) collector.

[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/vejiita4eva/2007Norbit-EddieMurphyasMrWong.jpg[IMG]

Okay, so you're saying it's worked both ways throughout history so who cares?

I'd say a lot of people and not for race issues, but for nostalgia. People flood comic book movies and they're pulling record numbers BECAUSE they make people feel like kids again. Hell, look at Transformers' success and they haven't even been that good (or good at all depending on your perspective). I love the actor they're pushing too. I watch Community every week just because he and Senor Chang make that show worthwhile. But he's Troy... not Peter Parker.

But the bottom line remains... you don't **** with nostalgia... especially when it's your major draw.

[Lomax]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Lol. Yeah, you caught me. I'm a closet racist.

Brb, grabbing my hood now that I've been outed because clearly that's the only explanation for not embracing the changing of the race of Spiderman.

More likely:

You're either a "hyper progressive" look at me I'm not racist because I love this and this and this outside of my races cultural stereotype

or

A minority that's ultra-sensitive to things that aren't really race issues yet perceives the to be.

And yes, the Karate Kid was also significantly more iconic to someone my age than a video game that was horrible in my youth.

...Defensive much?

I never said you were racist.

You just don't like when blacks play whites, but don't mind whites playing other races. Am I wrong?

[Crushaholic]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Uncle Ben

That's right. I knew it didn't look right when I typed it...

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Lomax

...Defensive much?

I never said you were racist.

You just don't like when blacks play whites, but don't mind whites playing other races. Am I wrong?

Not defensive at all... you're just completely off-base. Completely, and your immediate leap to conclusions that aren't even inferred is called "hyper vigilance". Good luck with your PC race issues though bro.

When I was little I fought for a bedtime extension so I could watch the Cosby show. If they turned that into a movie and tried casting Will Ferrell or someone as Bill Cosby, I'd flip my ****.

Or if Will Forte played Dwayne Wayne.

Or if Eminem were the next Fresh Prince of Bel Air

Or coming to America 2... only they come from Latvia or something and are white.

etc.

It would be absurd. 100% ridiculous and unwarranted for any reason whatsoever.

[TheReverend]

Can anyone imagine a Cheech and Chong flick played by white people?

It'd be awful.

Unless it was Tenacious D... then they MIGHT be able to pull it off.

[Dagmar]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Can anyone imagine a Cheech and Chong flick played by white people?

It'd be awful.

Unless it was Tenacious D... then they MIGHT be able to pull it off.

To be honest with you I am not really bothered by the color of the skin of anyone who plays a character, iconic or not. As long as they play the character well to the essence of the character it really shouldn't matter.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Dagmar

To be honest with you I am not really bothered by the color of the skin of anyone who plays a character, iconic or not. As long as they play the character well to the essence of the character it really shouldn't matter.

So you just ignore that part of the essence of the character IS, in fact, their color?

The Cosby show was extremely influential crossing and eliminating some racial boundaries BECAUSE they were black. As were the Jeffersons, Fresh Prince, hell even Martin, etc.

How many people my age in their late twenties remember the episode were Will Smith's dad comes back, and he's going to leave the Banks residence to go trucking with his dad, who then ditches him again, and how emotional that was when he was hugging Uncle Phil crying saying "Why doesn't he want me?"?

A massive chunk of white America was emotionally involved with AND growing up with a black family

And yeah, I'd be furious if they changed that selfishly for my nostalgic purposes and for future generations.

[sirhcyennek81]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

How many people my age in their late twenties remember the episode were Will Smith's dad comes back, and he's going to leave the Banks residence to go trucking with his dad, who then ditches him again, and how emotional that was when he was hugging Uncle Phil crying saying "Why doesn't he want me?"?

I loved that show. That episode in particular was a good one.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

I loved that show. That episode in particular was a good one.

Oh man this is a good psychological question since you're gay... did you have a crush on Ashley like everyone else or was it a you didnt even notice thing?

[Xenos]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

And PS. I watched every episode of that cartoon with my daughter, and just about every tribe (fire, earth, water and air) were all white people, it was just immersed in asian culture and idealogy.

M Knight is actually making it MORE diverse in his casting.

Prince Zuko:



And the film's Prince Zuko:



The only thing I'm remotely upset about there was Zuko was such a bad ass in the cartoon and Dev Patel (Slumdog Millionaire) is entirely too skinny.

Regardless, feel free to twist that into a "OMG YOU MUST HATE INDIANS TOO!" I really don't mind.

I'm not against the casting for Avatar if it's done well, but your statement isn't true. The Water Tribe, for example, is more based on the Eskimos and Native Americans while the Fire Nation is more Asian descent. I don't exactly know where you're getting the idea that it's all white people immersed in Asian culture and ideology. Aang is also obviously tied to Tibetan ancestry particularly to that of the Dhali Llama.

[Xenos]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

So you just ignore that part of the essence of the character IS, in fact, their color?

The Cosby show was extremely influential crossing and eliminating some racial boundaries BECAUSE they were black. As were the Jeffersons, Fresh Prince, hell even Martin, etc.

How many people my age in their late twenties remember the episode were Will Smith's dad comes back, and he's going to leave the Banks residence to go trucking with his dad, who then ditches him again, and how emotional that was when he was hugging Uncle Phil crying saying "Why doesn't he want me?"?

A massive chunk of white America was emotionally involved with AND growing up with a black family

And yeah, I'd be furious if they changed that selfishly for my nostalgic purposes and for future generations.

I think there in the lies the problem with your argument. What part of Spiderman or Peter Parker is in essence tied to his skin color or race or culture?

Like I said before, I don't want them to cast someone of a different race just to be different. If the person is right for the role, they can cast whoever they like regardless of the skin color. Heck, if you want to use stereotype, Parker should have been Asian instead of white.

[worm]

Originally Posted by Flex Gunmetal

Oh, and Ryan Reynolds is playing GL, coming out next year. Dude should be great for the role.

Are you sure it is the Green Lantern?

The Green Hornet movie just paid us to film in front of my house for four days last month. They were filming the scene where he discovers that he is a badass. Ryan Reynolds was cast as the Green Hornet and Jay Chou is Kato.

Speaking of race changes in movie characters. The original Kato from the Green Hornet was Japanese..then the character magically became Filipino during WWII (wonder why?!?)....then back to Japanese after the War.

Kato was played in the TV show by Bruce Lee...a Chinese, and in the upcoming movie, Jay Chou is Taiwanese.

Should I be out-raged at the artistic license taken in this remake...or are those Nationalities and not race? Is white\black a bigger deal?

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Xenos

I'm not against the casting for Avatar if it's done well, but your statement isn't true. The Water Tribe, for example, is more based on the Eskimos and Native Americans while the Fire Nation is more Asian descent. I don't exactly know where you're getting the idea that it's all white people immersed in Asian culture and ideology. Aang is also obviously tied to Tibetan ancestry particularly to that of the Dhali Llama.

Because they're all drawn with white features outside of the occasional facial hair on old people/Hiru when he comes back late in the story.

Like I said, they're immersed in a lot of Asian culture but it rarely extends past the tribes culture, dress and occasionally their hair, and yes the water tribe is tanner than the rest of the tribes, but how people drew specific conclusions is silly. It's a cartoon.

Aang



A Tibetan family



Water tribe examples (your "Eskimos"):





Azula and Zuko (Fire tribe... what you called "more Asian decent")

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Xenos

I think there in the lies the problem with your argument. What part of Spiderman or Peter Parker is in essence tied to his skin color or race or culture?

Like I said before, I don't want them to cast someone of a different race just to be different. If the person is right for the role, they can cast whoever they like regardless of the skin color. Heck, if you want to use stereotype, Parker should have been Asian instead of white.

When you see something, the first thing you notice is appearance. If they did do this and you see it, the first thing that will register in a comic book fans mind is "That's not Peter Parker". And they'd be doing it for no reason whatsoever.

This guy says it very well (aside from "I can't ride for this"... not even sure what that means)

[Miss I.]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Oh I think I get it now...

You've apparently made me out to be some big "Jesus is white" proponent and based your entire post around that without any actual background of anything I've ever said?

Sorry to disappoint you man, but I don't personally even believe he was real... (no offense to people who do)

I don't think you are a Jesus is white proponent, though I do think the Catholic Church has fudged his heritage. He was without a doubt from the middle east so in all likelihood looked very middleastern. There are actual historical documents that indicate his existence as a human being, legal records outside of the Bible. So he definitely walked the planet as a human being. However, the idea of Him as God is purely a theoretical or faith based item.

Now, religious tangent aside, for what it's worth I liked the first 2 spidermen films, hated the 3rd and Tobey Maguire was okay, if a little too much emphasis on the geek.

Sometimes change can be good, sometimes it's pointless. The actor should just be the best for the character, regardless of race. I was always disturbed by the remake of Psycho largely in part because Vince Vaughn was a terrible fit as Norman Bates. The whole point of the book and the film was that Norman was harmless looking (in the book he was some fat middle aged guy, but in the film, it was even better with Anthony Perkins as such an average meek looking kid). Vince Vaughn looks a bit like he could go all nuts and kick ass. It was terrible casting, but of course there was no reason to remake that film anyway, much like all these recent remakes honestly. There are very few remakes that are worth it (Thomas Crown Affair and Ocean's 11 are the only two I can name off the top of my head that worked pretty well. Batman is not a remake so I don't count it).

[RaiderH8r]

Originally Posted by Lomax

If Karate Kid can be a completely different character, why does that character have to be white? I really don't get that. Does he have to be Italian American too? Does he have to be from Jersey? The "Karate Kid" is set in China, about guys doing Kung Fu, but your beef is with the fact that the character is Black?

As for Spider-Man, at first I thought it sounded lame, but if it's good, it wouldn't even matter. Guys would complain and the thing would get a ton of press, but it would be a bit of a twist on a classic character. They do it in comics all the time. If they can have a female Robin, why can't they have a Black Spider-Man?

As others have mentioned, the story has nothing to do with Parker's race. There's nothing that says a Black kid can't be smart and poor and like a girl who ignores him, find inner strength and learn to use it for good. Or that his name can't be Peter Parker. So if you hate that idea so much, just watch the Tobey Maguire version.

My first thought when I saw the trailer for the Karate Kid reboot was, "Karate is no good for a drive by."

I guess its not so much of a gaping plot hole if they keep the location in China but if that kid comes back to the states he's screwed.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Miss I.

I don't think you are a Jesus is white proponent, though I do think the Catholic Church has fudged his heritage. He was without a doubt from the middle east so in all likelihood looked very middleastern. There are actual historical documents that indicate his existence as a human being, legal records outside of the Bible. So he definitely walked the planet as a human being. However, the idea of Him as God is purely a theoretical or faith based item.

Now, religious tangent aside, for what it's worth I liked the first 2 spidermen films, hated the 3rd and Tobey Maguire was okay, if a little too much emphasis on the geek.

Sometimes change can be good, sometimes it's pointless. The actor should just be the best for the character, regardless of race. I was always disturbed by the remake of Psycho largely in part because Vince Vaughn was a terrible fit as Norman Bates. The whole point of the book and the film was that Norman was harmless looking (in the book he was some fat middle aged guy, but in the film, it was even better with Anthony Perkins as such an average meek looking kid). Vince Vaughn looks a bit like he could go all nuts and kick ass. It was terrible casting, but of course there was no reason to remake that film anyway, much like all these recent remakes honestly. There are very few remakes that are worth it (Thomas Crown Affair and Ocean's 11 are the only two I can name off the top of my head that worked pretty well. Batman is not a remake so I don't count it).

Not to de-rail the thread... but no there aren't. I mean, if you have something, please PM it this way, I'd love to see it, but the closest there is is Paul of Tarsus.

[Miss I.]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Not to de-rail the thread... but no there aren't. I mean, if you have something, please PM it this way, I'd love to see it, but the closest there is is Paul of Tarsus.

My degree is in Religious Studies, at least my Bachelors is. the discussion about that was about 10 years ago, but there are documents that reference his brother in legal documents. I don't have copies anymore as I moved on and got a different degree, but I will do a search and let you know. But he is a historical figure. He did exist as a human being. Not even sure why that part matters that much, it's the faith in his existence as God that is what started a new religion. Though Christianity is 95% Judaism, the idea of the trinity and Jesus as God are pretty critical additions.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Miss I.

My degree is in Religious Studies, at least my Bachelors is. the discussion about that was about 10 years ago, but there are documents that reference his brother in legal documents. I don't have copies anymore as I moved on and got a different degree, but I will do a search and let you know. But he is a historical figure. He did exist as a human being. Not even sure why that part matters that much, it's the faith in his existence as God that is what started a new religion. Though Christianity is 95% Judaism, the idea of the trinity and Jesus as God are pretty critical additions.

Just PM it so this can stay on topic, but definitely PM it.

[Flex Gunmetal]

Originally Posted by worm

Are you sure it is the Green Lantern?

The Green Hornet movie just paid us to film in front of my house for four days last month. They were filming the scene where he discovers that he is a badass. Ryan Reynolds was cast as the Green Hornet and Jay Chou is Kato.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1133985/

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Just PM it so this can stay on topic, but definitely PM it.

This is relevant to my interests as well.

[Fedaykin]

Spiderman's ethnicity is not a central part of his character. There are no story elements which necessitate him being white. They already made huge changes to his character and back story, but his skin color doesn't matter -- except to the bigots.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

Spiderman's ethnicity is not a central part of his character. There are no story elements which necessitate him being white. They already made huge changes to his character and back story, but his skin color doesn't matter -- except to the bigots.

b**** please