The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-26-2009, 10:10 AM   #76
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 18,342
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragster69 View Post
He's bordering bust status as we speak.
16th in the league in rushing, leading all rookies. I think "bust" is perhaps going a bit too far. Our run blocking hasn't been great and we're facing a lot of D close to the LOS. He's going to be fine.
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 10:10 AM   #77
oubronco
John Foneco !!
 
oubronco's Avatar
 
Mile High Magic

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sooner Country
Posts: 19,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragster69 View Post
Hiils was a rookie. Hillis is a FB not a RB.
When the injuries happened he was given his chance to be in the line-up and play, and he never looked back.

Why do you insist on defending Moreno over Hillis?
Please!
Haven't you seen enough already?
He's bordering bust status as we speak.
He has had no impact on any game this season at all.
Look at the Hillis videos from the time he started to play, and you will see the immediate impact he brought ot this offense by blocking, running with authority and catching the ball.
Wake up.
Exactly rep
oubronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 10:12 AM   #78
cabronco
Broncos & LA Kings fan
 
PFM / Kopitar

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: So.Cal.
Posts: 5,935

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Superbowl Bound
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by go_broncos View Post
I dont want complex offense that scores only 3 points.

Peyton Hillis is a stud..I would take him over any of our current RBs.
Its funny that people are giving excuses for not starting Hillis.

I think Hillis might have done something bad personally to Mcd.
Thats the reason he is not starting.
I agree, if we can only score 3 in this complex offense, than go less complex and find ways to get Hillis the damn ball. I am a little pissed that Hillis has seen very limited action, when we saw last year what he can do, in more than one area too. I can see the writing on the wall. McD will let Hillis go next year and he will excel wherever he goes. I like McD, but times like these I miss the Shanahan lead offense where we saw Stokley more involved, Scheffler more involved, Royal, BM, and Hillis all making big plays. Right now this dink & dunk offense looks lame & predictable.
cabronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 10:13 AM   #79
mr007
I'm not your buddy, guy
 
mr007's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,102

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Eddie Royal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
I think I can explain why he didn't start and hasn't started much. Hillis is not a system back, he clearly doesn't run well with a lead blocker and I believe he is most efficient in the type of run scheme they have at Arkansas where the offense tries to spread out and open up many gaps and the let the RB chose the right opportunity.

Whenever I see Hillis do well he is running off tackle from a single back formation or he is running a 1 cut route in a stretch play. To really take advantage of his skills you have to get him in space and let him go 1 on 1 with a defender. Unfortunately that is not a stable way to have a run game since it relies on at least a 1 to 1 blocker to defender ratio which is hard to achieve when running outside consistently since the defense will cheat to the running side and outman the offensive line on that side and leave the backside unprotected.

Hillis is in my estimation very good at what he does, but he is not the complete package you can build an offense around. I am concerned that he is not seeing more time out of the backfield though, he is clearly the best RB in the flat.
Wtf are you talking about, we run almost all of our plays out of a single back formation... you are pretty much identifying our offense as something he'd be productive in.
mr007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 10:14 AM   #80
Bronx33
lets go partner
 
Bronx33's Avatar
 
Rumpson Rocks

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lakewood,Colo
Posts: 40,919

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Woodyard
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragster69 View Post
Hillis, a guy who was thrown into the fire last year when all of our RB's went down, and to perform the way he did in such a short notice not only was remarkable, but blows this circulating BS out of the water.
This is the most ignorant crap I've heard in a while.
The guy is not stupid. McD brought his "own" guys to carry the ball for him; C-Buck, Lamont Jordan, and Moreno who he got in the draft.
That made Hillis the odd man out.
Quit trying to speculate and read into BS stories that not me, and not you know anything about what really is going on.
People are trying to get into Hillis head to say stuff like, Hillis thinks this, Hillis thinkls that, baloney. Who does really know what he's thinking?
I just want Hillis to be given a chance to play a whole freaking game solid.
A considerable playing time and let him loose.
I guarantee you that if that was to happen, all of this crap being talked about will change right quick.
There will be a lot of new dumbasses born that day...

Yep hillis is simply getting the short end of the stick from MCD.
Bronx33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 10:15 AM   #81
oubronco
John Foneco !!
 
oubronco's Avatar
 
Mile High Magic

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sooner Country
Posts: 19,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabronco View Post
I agree, if we can only score 3 in this complex offense, than go less complex and find ways to get Hillis the damn ball. I am a little pissed that Hillis has seen very limited action, when we saw last year what he can do, in more than one area too. I can see the writing on the wall. McD will let Hillis go next year and he will excel wherever he goes. I like McD, but times like these I miss the Shanahan lead offense where we saw Stokley more involved, Scheffler more involved, Royal, BM, and Hillis all making big plays. Right now this dink & dunk offense looks lame & predictable.
well you are right but we will see alot more of the same old same old this is McD's killer offense and he's not about to scrap it
oubronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 10:16 AM   #82
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragster69 View Post
Hiils was a rookie. Hillis is a FB not a RB.
When the injuries happened he was given his chance to be in the line-up and play, and he never looked back.

Why do you insist on defending Moreno over Hillis?
Please!
Haven't you seen enough already?
He's bordering bust status as we speak.
He has had no impact on any game this season at all.
Look at the Hillis videos from the time he started to play, and you will see the immediate impact he brought ot this offense by blocking, running with authority and catching the ball.
Wake up.
Doesn't matter what I think or see....I'm not the head coach of the Broncos...nor am I the offensive coordinator, nor am I his position coach.

So this is two seasons in which Hillis was not the starting RB of the Denver Broncos on opening day.

Neither Mike Shanahan, nor Josh McDaniels saw what you claim to be immense talent going to waste....and as you implied, have chosen to ignore it.

Two NFL offensive coordinators have also chose to ignore the all-worldly talents of one Peyton Hillis.

And two RB's coaches have also chosen to ignore this glorious example of male pultritude and luminosity.

Neither did 31 other NFL teams (who have dozens if not hundreds of college scouts BTW) in the first 6 rounds of the '08 draft.

Oh, and his college coach held him down as well, forcing him to share carries with McFadden and Jones.

I am really flattered that you think I'm just as good as Mike Shanahan, and Josh McDaniels when it comes to evaluating RB talent....you make me blush. Garrsh!
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 10:17 AM   #83
oubronco
John Foneco !!
 
oubronco's Avatar
 
Mile High Magic

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sooner Country
Posts: 19,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
Doesn't matter what I think or see....I'm not the head coach of the Broncos...nor am I the offensive coordinator, nor am I his position coach.

So this is two seasons in which Hillis was not the starting RB of the Denver Broncos on opening day.

Neither Mike Shanahan, nor Josh McDaniels saw what you claim to be immense talent going to waste....and as you implied, have chosen to ignore it.

Two NFL offensive coordinators have also chose to ignore the all-worldly talents of one Peyton Hillis.

And two RB's coaches have also chosen to ignore this glorious example of male pultritude and luminosity.

Neither did 31 other NFL teams (who have dozens if not hundreds of college scouts BTW) in the first 6 rounds of the '08 draft.

Oh, and his college coach held him down as well, forcing him to share carries with McFadden and Jones.

I am really flattered that you think I'm just as good as Mike Shanahan, and Josh McDaniels when it comes to evaluating RB talent....you make me blush. Garrsh!
FB's rarely get drafted in the early rounds
oubronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 10:19 AM   #84
broncolife
Mr. Studmuffin
 
broncolife's Avatar
 
Ice and Fire

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 3,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oubronco View Post
Hillis saw time on the field before all thosa rb's were injured but if you have proof that he sat on the bench until 7 rb's went on IR then lets see it
He saw more action the first game of the season last year than he has saw this entire season.
broncolife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 10:24 AM   #85
broncolife
Mr. Studmuffin
 
broncolife's Avatar
 
Ice and Fire

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 3,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
Doesn't matter what I think or see....I'm not the head coach of the Broncos...nor am I the offensive coordinator, nor am I his position coach.

So this is two seasons in which Hillis was not the starting RB of the Denver Broncos on opening day.

Neither Mike Shanahan, nor Josh McDaniels saw what you claim to be immense talent going to waste....and as you implied, have chosen to ignore it.

Two NFL offensive coordinators have also chose to ignore the all-worldly talents of one Peyton Hillis.

And two RB's coaches have also chosen to ignore this glorious example of male pultritude and luminosity.

Neither did 31 other NFL teams (who have dozens if not hundreds of college scouts BTW) in the first 6 rounds of the '08 draft.


Oh, and his college coach held him down as well, forcing him to share carries with McFadden and Jones.

I am really flattered that you think I'm just as good as Mike Shanahan, and Josh McDaniels when it comes to evaluating RB talent....you make me blush. Garrsh!
Are you really bringing up the draft? I guess you dont remember TD and Mike Anderson.
broncolife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 10:33 AM   #86
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpc View Post
There's been plenty. Some have had trade-offs like Clinton Portis. Ashley Lelie is another even though he kind of forced his hand. Chris Myers was a guy that I thought had great skill and was just coming into his own. Desmond Clark had great potential in front of him before he was abrubtly cut. He's now been in the league 8 or so year's now.

Bert Berry and Reggie Hayward were guys that had a lot of potential in front of them when they weren't resigned. Nate Wayne was a guy who blew up on the scene as a 7th round draft pick (didn't research that but kinda remember it) and then we let him go for next to nothing. Then of course Tory James and Deltha O'Neal went on to get countless interceptions in a bengals uniform. I was more disappointed with losing James who looked like he would be a stud for us until he blew out his knee. He didn't come back right for about 3 or 4 years.

Those names sit on the top of my mind. I'm pretty sure Hillis will probably fit in this mold as well, eventually.
I'm sorry...I thought you meant difference makers...
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 10:38 AM   #87
bpc
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
 
bpc's Avatar
 
1 sword keeps another in the sheath

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 13,564

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Von Miller
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
I'm sorry...I thought you meant difference makers...
Do you actually watch football and understand the concept on the field?

Who cares if you don't. Happy thanksgiving bud.
bpc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 10:41 AM   #88
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by broncolife View Post
Are you really bringing up the draft? I guess you dont remember TD and Mike Anderson.
OK, let's toss out the pro scouts...fair enough. So let's go with the two head coaches, coordinators and position coaches who have obviously chosen to ignore the next John Riggins getting splinters in his ass riding the pine behind several other less talented, underachieving, non-performing RB's.

As far as Davis and Anderson are concerned....

Yeah, they were 6th round steals...but they also weren't buried behind 7 other RB's on our roster either. They showed something in training camp, and during practice to make Mike put them in as either the undisputed/projected starter or when the undisputed/projected starter went down.
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 11:04 AM   #89
broncolife
Mr. Studmuffin
 
broncolife's Avatar
 
Ice and Fire

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 3,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
OK, let's toss out the pro scouts...fair enough. So let's go with the two head coaches, coordinators and position coaches who have obviously chosen to ignore the next John Riggins getting splinters in his ass riding the pine behind several other less talented, underachieving, non-performing RB's.

As far as Davis and Anderson are concerned....

Yeah, they were 6th round steals...but they also weren't buried behind 7 other RB's on our roster either. They showed something in training camp, and during practice to make Mike put them in as either the undisputed/projected starter or when the undisputed/projected starter went down.
So draft is eliminated. Good

Reasons for Shanny not starting Hillis RB.

-Shanny drafted Hillis to be FB.
-Hillis was playing FB
-Hillis was a late round rookie which needed time to develop his skills


The Point is Hillis wasnt brought in to be a running back, he was brought in to eventually be our starter at FB. He was then thrown to the dogs after all our rb options were out and he did a great job.He wasnt replaced when he was starting he got injured.I believe he would have been our starting rb with Larsen as our fb if Shanny would have stayed.

Now to Mcdaniels. I believe Hillis should have at least got a chance to show if he could repeat his performances from last year.He did look like our best back in preseason. Maybe play Hillis late in the game instead of the times we played Jordan. All I want is to see him get a chance, more than 4 carries for the season.He doesnt have to be a starter.

So I believe 1 coach is ignoring the next John Riggins
broncolife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 11:05 AM   #90
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpc View Post
Do you actually watch football and understand the concept on the field?

Who cares if you don't. Happy thanksgiving bud.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family too.

For one who obviously has inferiro football watching skills, I have to note that ....

O'Neal snagged 34 career INT's...but he got 19 of them in two of his 10 seasons....that's 15 , or approximately 2 per year in the other ones.

Tory James didn't make the Pro Bowl until after he left the Raiders, and join the Bengals, which was his 3rd team....and was a nickleback until his 2nd season in Oakland as well.

Berry, I'll admit we could have used his 14.5 sacks in the first year he left us for Arizona, but he's not generated over 6 in any other season afterwards.

Hayward, he's like Berry, we could have used him and his 8.5 sacks the first seasson he was gone, but he had 9 sacks combined in the next 4 seasons.

Lelie? Now surely you jest! Your credibility was growing until you mentioned him.

The point being is none of these guys....with the exception of Portis, that you mentioned have done alot to distinguish themselves as difference makers or franchise players in the NFL. they have had their moments, I'll admit, but it's not like they're Dave Stewart who left the Dodgers and a couple of other teams only to win 20+ games with the Athletics.
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 11:17 AM   #91
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oubronco View Post
FB's rarely get drafted in the early rounds
...OK, so to use your own argument against you, how is it other low round draftees excelled at the game and he hasn't?

Mike Anderson was a FB when he came to Denver, and he became our starting RB when Gary was injured, and Davis was still recovering from his injury. It did not take Mike nearly 3/4 of the season to discover that Mike Anderson could deliver. Selvyn Young ran for about 700 yards too as our FB thrust into the starting RB role.

The poiint being is that these guys weren't listed as 7th on the depth chart. They stood out in camp or practice to make their coaches take notice that they could make plays and could perform if the situation arose.
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 11:28 AM   #92
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragster69 View Post
So that's probably why Moreno and Jordan are in and Hillis is not, huh?
Playing time is earned on Sundays when you are given a good share of plays to do your thing on the field.
So far Moreno has not proven that's the case at all. He may have earned his playing time M-F but he's certainly stinking it it up on Sundays.
I find amazing that a former QB that still throws for tons of INT's gets showered with love, but a rookie who has 4 fumbles is demonized on here.

...not to mention it's the only board where the team's 5th or 6th best back is praised as being the beast that would destroy the NFL if only the coach would put him in.

It's what scientists have called "Uncle Rico Syndrome"

http://www.hulu.com/watch/8725/napol...throws-a-steak
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 11:34 AM   #93
Popps
TEAM FIRST.
 
Popps's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,827
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
Buckhalter made plays in Philly too TJ...but he's not the same player as Westbrook is. Last season he averaged 4.9 ypc to Westbrooks 4.0. He averaged 12.5 yards per catch to Westbrook's 7.4. So Andy Reid must be yet another moron who intentionally holds back the better players in order to satisfy his enormous ego, right?
You can't give the ball to Buckhalter 20 times a game. The guy would break in half. That's common knowledge.

McDaniels wisely does his best to keep Bucklahter fresh, so he's explosive and a nice counter to Moreno.

It's just logical coaching.
Popps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 11:39 AM   #94
Popps
TEAM FIRST.
 
Popps's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,827
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
I find amazing that a former QB that still throws for tons of INT's gets showered with love, but a rookie who has 4 fumbles is demonized on here.

...not to mention it's the only board where the team's 5th or 6th best back is praised as being the beast that would destroy the NFL if only the coach would put him in.
It starts as a product of people simply not knowing what they're looking at. (Assuming Cutler is a "franchise" QB, for example.)

Then, when reality starts to set in.... after months of arguing a flawed thesis... those same people turn to desperation. (Trashing a productive rookie like Moreno, etc.)
Popps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 11:40 AM   #95
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
You can't give the ball to Buckhalter 20 times a game. The guy would break in half. That's common knowledge.

McDaniels wisely does his best to keep Bucklahter fresh, so he's explosive and a nice counter to Moreno.

It's just logical coaching.
Exactly....but, who are these NFL coaches who have done this for their entire working lives to question the likes of internet wanna-be coaches like TJ, and bpc, et. al.?

My point is that you cannot just look at numbers and say this guy is capable of doing this 20-30 times a game for 16 games when the fact is they probably cannot due to the wear and tear they'd be exposed to.
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 11:44 AM   #96
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
It starts as a product of people simply not knowing what they're looking at. (Assuming Cutler is a "franchise" QB, for example.)

Then, when reality starts to set in.... after months of arguing a flawed thesis... those same people turn to desperation. (Trashing a productive rookie like Moreno, etc.)
...and how quick will they be to jump on his bandwagon when he finally does have that monster game and doesn't fumble the ball.

These guys amaze me...for years all we've heard is how elway played with a bunch of losers, and carried us to the SB during the 80's and early 90's....and yet when some other team's fan points out what a piece of crap Sammy Winder or Vance Johnson was, these same guys who trashed them all of a sudden defend them to the end of the world...go figure.

I guess it's like that old saying..."I can call my sister a whore...but nobody else better do it."
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:28 PM   #97
Bronco Warrior
Opinionated Jerk
 
Bronco Warrior's Avatar
 
Ranting Maniac!

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: SLC,Utah
Posts: 1,279

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Hillis is a freaking beast! Somehow he got on Joshie's badside. He is the most versitale player we have including Larsen. Try to make up stuff to blame him but it isn't his head or his talent!
Bronco Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:30 PM   #98
mr007
I'm not your buddy, guy
 
mr007's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,102

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Eddie Royal
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by errand View Post
I guess it's like that old saying..."I can call my sister a whore...but nobody else better do it."
In fairness, she has slept with half of the people here.
mr007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:38 PM   #99
Popps
TEAM FIRST.
 
Popps's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,827
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco Warrior View Post
Hillis is a freaking beast! Somehow he got on Joshie's badside. He is the most versitale player we have including Larsen. Try to make up stuff to blame him but it isn't his head or his talent!
Huh?

So, Shanahan and McDaniels both chose to bench him to purposely hurt their own teams?

Again, I'm waiting for an explanation as to why two offensive masterminds would purposely choose NOT to make Hillis a starter without good reason?

Why did Shanahan and McDaniels choose to purposely hurt their own team?
Popps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:50 PM   #100
JJJ
Ring of Famer
 
JJJ's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Confederation Helvetica
Posts: 2,957

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

If you are not going to use that guy send him to San Diego.

We will trade Hester for him straight up. Hester is smart. Can't play football all that well but is smart so McD might like him.

I cannot for the life of me after seeing what I saw of that Hillis animal last year why he is not on the field. As a Bolt fan I am only very thankful he is not.

Really a mind bender why he isn't being used.
JJJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:28 AM.


Denver Broncos