BM: I asked and Bowlen said he would trade me.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by BroncoMcBuff

As I've oft-mentioned, Josh has a small-college, top-down authoritative mentality ... probably from growing up with a coach Dad.

Might work in the NFL, I hope it does. But with that approach he wouldn't even make waterboy in the NBA or MLB.

He should be managing personalities and egos, that's the smart move ...bu instead he's looking for selfless conformity, which is just unrealistic with most stars. Some, Brady maybe ... but not most.

I don't buy that at all. He's trying to build a "team" concept. You act as if he just walked in off the street from a high school coaching job. Read his resume. I'm sure he has no problem dealing with "personalities." He just stumbled into a situation where a team had two malfunctioning personalities who also happened to be the stars of the team. Many Americans have forgotten this, but we used to believe in a concept called "personal responsibility." Look at Royal. Rod Smith. The majority of the team. They get it. They are men who play football for a living. Maturity.

Shanahan was coddling some of the personalities on this team. He allowed cliques to develope. People have complained about it for years. McD came in and knew that could not continue if he had any hopes of building a long term winning franchise. I'm sure if it was Spags, Ryan or whoever came in here, they would have realized the same thing. The overwhelming majority of the players had the maturity to adapt to McD's new protocols. Some didn't. Some don't.

It depends on what McD is trying to build: A winning franchise, or a nursery.

[ScottXray]

All this does is PROVE that Marshall is a problem, because of MARSHALL.

The coach (McD) has Nothing to do with BM's behavior, it is all about MONEY and a childish attitude on the part of the player.

He is under contract to play football , and he is violating his contract by not
performing his duties under that contract. In order to try to induce the team to comply with his demands for a new contract (at least some money is due him for PAST behavior ON the field...he IS a great player when he wants to be) or a trade (the TEAM has him under a current contract and does not have to comply) he has been putting on a what , me stupid ACT.

In doing so he is letting down his teammates and the team.

So now he is suspended for the rest of the pre-season. That will hit his pocketbook aa LITTLE. This is the management letting him know that if he doesn't change his behavior they have the ability to suspend him...repeatedly, and take away his pay for THIS year. They really have no other method or choice open to them. I don't see how ANYONE can lay this at the feet of the coach! He is using what forms of dicipline are available to him.

If he had gone up to Marshall and punched him in the face or attacked him in some other way , THAT would be mismanaging.

He didn't call him out in front of anyone else.

He didn't say "you'll get traded".

He didn't say " he doesn't know the playbook." The player did.

He didn't take the issue to the press, despite the press hoping he will.



What the hell has the COACH done that shows mismanagement? The player is the one that is causing all the problems. And despite Bowlen possibly saying he would be traded if that what he wants, if no team offers anything of value how can that be allowed.

Trading him WOULD be mismanagement if we didn't get at least high round draft choices or players of equal impact.

This is ALL on Marshall. The guy just can't see things are of his own making, and he still wants a high dollar contract that would stick it to the Broncos WHEN the league suspends him for any other off field issue. And judging by his behavior he STILL hasn't figured it out.

Some times BAD things happen to good people.

Some times GOOD things happen to BAD people.

Generally, GOOD behavior results in GOOD things happening to you,
and BAD behavior results in the opposite.

If he continues this CHARADE the team should just keep suspending him, until he earns ZERO.

[RaiderH8r]

McDip**** sure knows how to get the best production out of his players. Wow. Once Royal is a bonafide 100 catch receiver McKid will have him cleaning out urinal cakes just to prove to McKid that McKid is the Head Midget in Charge.

[Mr.Meanie]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Instead they do the same thing they did to Cutler and try to strong arm him and force Marshall to bow down like a good slave.

Like a good SLAVE?? hahaha...wow. You just out-lexed Lex.

He signed a contract, he's making 2 million dollars this year even if he mails it in.

Trading him would have been alot easier if he didn't singlehandedly self-destruct his trade value. Signing him to a lucrative long term contract would have been more likely. Of course, he would have most likely been signed to a long term lucrative contract, and we wouldn't even be discussing it. But he's BMarsh, so there we are...

[ScottXray]

Originally Posted by DrFate

I'm not sure what you are thinking, Blue. It is everybody's fault BUT the noob coach.

The following people/things are at fault for this offseason:

Cutler
Cutler's agent
Cutler's cell phone
Bowlen
Bellicheat
Sunspots
Ninjas
Marshall
Marshall's current girlfriend
Marshall's old girlfriend
Shanahan
Bates (Jeremy)
Bates (Kathy)
Bates (Norman)
Hoodies
The Taliban
Lex
Kool Aid
Thunder (the horse)
Thunder (Cats)
Solomon Wilcots
Mike Vick
PETA
Peta Wilson
Matt Cassel
Matt Millen
Matt Stafford

Did I miss anybody??

REP!

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by Blueflame

I think this is exactly what the front office wants you to think. They also "demonized" Cutler via the media. The point where I knew Marshall would probably be following Cutler out the door was when McDaniels said he wouldn't be...

Fact: Our offense would be better with Cutler and with Marshall.

TIN FOIL HAT! TIN FOIL HAT!

Yes, it's all a conspiracy by that evil Broncos front office to demonize these innocent players. Marshall is a puppet on a string! They MADE HIM kick that football in practice! BLURG!

Get OVER yourself, blue. You sound even stupider than usual on this one.

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by rohirrim

I don't buy that at all. He's trying to build a "team" concept. You act as if he just walked in off the street from a high school coaching job. Read his resume. I'm sure he has no problem dealing with "personalities." he just stumbled into a situation where a team had two malfunctioning personalities who also happened to be the stars of the team. Many americans have forgotten this, but we used to believe in a concept called "personal responsibility." look at royal. Rod smith. The majority of the team. They get it. They are men who play football for a living. Maturity.

Shanahan was coddling some of the personalities on this team. He allowed cliques to develope. People have complained about it for years. Mcd came in and knew that could not continue if he had any hopes of building a long term winning franchise. I'm sure if it was spags, ryan or whoever came in here, they would have realized the same thing. The overwhelming majority of the players had the maturity to adapt to mcd's new protocols. Some didn't. Some don't.

It depends on what mcd is trying to build: A winning franchise, or a nursery.

rep.

[Cosmo]

IMO, this thing is quite simple and so far McD is following it.

1) Let him play/practice. If he acts like an idiot, suspend him.

2) If he is productive this year, healthy and stays out of trouble offer him a contract. If he doesn't like the contract he is a restricted free agent, so tender him the highest amount allowed. If someone offers, we get at least a 1st rd pick in return, if not, we keep him for another year.

3) If we manage to keep him with the tender, the following year you do the same thing, offer a long term contract based on his performance. If he rejects it again, franchise him.

4) Rinse and repeat. We have the power to keep him or ruin his career. Follow through with this and we lose nothing.


You see, with Cutler, it was different, your QB sets the tone. If he's a drunk jackass, you need to replace him, and that is what we did. Would Cutler have matured eventually? Yes, but in today's NFL, you have to win now and waiting on him to get it, wasn't something the team was willing to do. I am skeptical of Orton being a long term solution, but you can tell that McD can do wonders for a QB. If Orton fails, McD will find a suitable replacement.

[Flex Gunmetal]

Didn't read pages 1-4, but mock sure is a goddamn idiot.
He surprises me daily.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I don't buy that at all. He's trying to build a "team" concept. You act as if he just walked in off the street from a high school coaching job. Read his resume. I'm sure he has no problem dealing with "personalities." He just stumbled into a situation where a team had two malfunctioning personalities who also happened to be the stars of the team. Many Americans have forgotten this, but we used to believe in a concept called "personal responsibility." Look at Royal. Rod Smith. The majority of the team. They get it. They are men who play football for a living. Maturity.

Shanahan was coddling some of the personalities on this team. He allowed cliques to develope. People have complained about it for years. McD came in and knew that could not continue if he had any hopes of building a long term winning franchise. I'm sure if it was Spags, Ryan or whoever came in here, they would have realized the same thing. The overwhelming majority of the players had the maturity to adapt to McD's new protocols. Some didn't. Some don't.

It depends on what McD is trying to build: A winning franchise, or a nursery.

You guys act like Mike Shanahan never coached a NFL star before. Smith didn't act like this Shanahan was his coach. John Elway didn't act like this Mike Shanahan was his coach. Terrell Davis didn't act like this Mike Shanahan was his coach. The only player I can really think that had a HUGE ego in Denver under Mike was Clinton Portis and his attitude got him traded for Champ Bailey. Mike Shanahan saw the potential problem with Clinton and instead of letting it get to hold out point like Portis was talking about doing he traded his ass for the best CB in the NFL.

Maybe instead of blaming Shanahan for "coddling" players maybe we should step back and thank Mike for keeping things behind close doors and not out in the open like a circus.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by TonyR

Seriously? No, really, I mean it. Seriously? How about if Brandon didn't have multiple lapses in judgment that brought on legal trouble and potential lengthy suspensions, plus an off field injury, he'd be counting his $20 million guaranteed money right now? You need to step back and realize where the blame lies in this whole thing. You've got it all very wrong.

I don't have it all wrong.

Denver would have been in a much better situation now if they would have traded Marshall thwree weeks ago. Am I right? Of Course I am.

When they decided that they weren't going to pay him they should have traded him, and that of course I am right.

[vancejohnson82]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

You guys act like Mike Shanahan never coached a NFL star before. Smith didn't act like this Shanahan was his coach. John Elway didn't act like this Mike Shanahan was his coach. Terrell Davis didn't act like this Mike Shanahan was his coach. The only player I can really think that had a HUGE ego in Denver under Mike was Clinton Portis and his attitude got him traded for Champ Bailey. Mike Shanahan saw the potential problem with Clinton and instead of letting it get to hold out point like Portis was talking about doing he traded his ass for the best CB in the NFL.

Maybe instead of blaming Shanahan for "coddling" players maybe we should step back and thank Mike for keeping things behind close doors and not out in the open like a circus.

how about coming up with an instance post 2005...

Marshall and Cutler are the prototypical NFL crybabies....I can't wait to get rid of "Baby TO" soon enough

lets get some real football players in here

[HAT]

Originally Posted by watermock

Apologized and said emotions get the best of him (obviously).

This starting to sound exactly like Cutler other than the Broncos know they can't lose 2 probowlers in one season THAT WERE STILL UNDER CONTRACT.

Actually 3, Weigman had to threaten them, but it was only 2 freakin' million.

BM said he was frustrated because, well, he didn't say, but my guess is no contract negotiations AT ALL, despite HE'S NOT EVEN UNDER PROBATION, and granted he's emotional, see the Broncos doing anything there? No.

He's on the scout team, expected to pick up balls. WTF do you think he booted it?

Just because Beavis put him on the depth chart?

He apologized, but at this point, a conditional second is all we will get.
\
That doesn't mean he won't get a 50 million contract.

73,000 post rule?

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Denver would have been in a much better situation now if they would have traded Marshall thwree weeks ago. Am I right? Of Course I am.

When they decided that they weren't going to pay him they should have traded him, and that of course I am right.

No, the problem with your "logic" here is that he wasn't very marketable three weeks ago, either. Injury, legal issues, and demanding a new contract. Not things many, if any, teams are looking to give up a lot of value for. The only thing you're right about is that his value has decreased.

They did the right thing by not trading him then, and hopefully they'll do the right thing and not trade him now. Unless somebody is willing to give up a lot for him, which is extremely unlikely.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by vancejohnson82

how about coming up with an instance post 2005...

Marshall and Cutler are the prototypical NFL crybabies....I can't wait to get rid of "Baby TO" soon enough

lets get some real football players in here

How Shanahan handled his players shouldn't be questioned. I'm pointing that out. We will never know how this would have played out with Mike here and I doubt the BM thing would have been this bad with Mike here. I'm not saying that McD is handling it wrong either I just think Mike would have found a different way of dealing with it then McD is doing. Its crystal clear that Marshall is dumb for acting like this but at the same time acting like a baby got Cutler what he wanted so I guess you can see why Marshall is trying to do what he is doing.

As for "real football players" this is something that you are going to have to deal with. Moss was a punk and flat out dogged it when he was with the Raiders. In fact Moss got what he wanted out of Minny because of how he was treated then he landed in a **** hole. Lucky for him he got out and grew up, now no one is talking about him being cancer for the team. The thought alone about Denver trying to get Moss before he was a Pat was laughed at on this board because of his actions but I doubt that would be a issue anymore.

I really hope that Marshall bucks up and plays this year. His agent should step in and get him to look at the big picture cause he isn't going anywhere now. As I said before I would rather have two 100 catch WRs this year then one. We just need him to shut up catch the football and stay out of trouble so we can get value for him back.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

You guys act like Mike Shanahan never coached a NFL star before. Smith didn't act like this Shanahan was his coach. John Elway didn't act like this Mike Shanahan was his coach. Terrell Davis didn't act like this Mike Shanahan was his coach. The only player I can really think that had a HUGE ego in Denver under Mike was Clinton Portis and his attitude got him traded for Champ Bailey. Mike Shanahan saw the potential problem with Clinton and instead of letting it get to hold out point like Portis was talking about doing he traded his ass for the best CB in the NFL.

Maybe instead of blaming Shanahan for "coddling" players maybe we should step back and thank Mike for keeping things behind close doors and not out in the open like a circus.

Shanahan didn't have to "manage" the personalities of Elway, TD or Smith. They were mature individuals who managed themselves. And I'm not talking about how Mike was during his entire 14 years here. Just the last few. Frankly, I think he was burned out.

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by Cosmo

IMO, this thing is quite simple and so far McD is following it.

1) Let him play/practice. If he acts like an idiot, suspend him.

2) If he is productive this year, healthy and stays out of trouble offer him a contract. If he doesn't like the contract he is a restricted free agent, so tender him the highest amount allowed. If someone offers, we get at least a 1st rd pick in return, if not, we keep him for another year.

3) If we manage to keep him with the tender, the following year you do the same thing, offer a long term contract based on his performance. If he rejects it again, franchise him.

4) Rinse and repeat. We have the power to keep him or ruin his career. Follow through with this and we lose nothing.


You see, with Cutler, it was different, your QB sets the tone. If he's a drunk jackass, you need to replace him, and that is what we did. Would Cutler have matured eventually? Yes, but in today's NFL, you have to win now and waiting on him to get it, wasn't something the team was willing to do. I am skeptical of Orton being a long term solution, but you can tell that McD can do wonders for a QB. If Orton fails, McD will find a suitable replacement.

Well Orton is a dry Drunk as well. So we got rid of one Drunk for another Drunk!!

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Shanahan didn't have to "manage" the personalities of Elway, TD or Smith. They were mature individuals who managed themselves. And I'm not talking about how Mike was during his entire 14 years here. Just the last few. Frankly, I think he was burned out.

Anyone that did act like this got shipped out, but yeah maybe it was getting too much for him.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by watermock

Apologized and said emotions get the best of him (obviously).

This starting to sound exactly like Cutler other than the Broncos know they can't lose 2 probowlers in one season THAT WERE STILL UNDER CONTRACT.

Actually 3, Weigman had to threaten them, but it was only 2 freakin' million.

BM said he was frustrated because, well, he didn't say, but my guess is no contract negotiations AT ALL, despite HE'S NOT EVEN UNDER PROBATION, and granted he's emotional, see the Broncos doing anything there? No.

He's on the scout team, expected to pick up balls. WTF do you think he booted it?

Just because Beavis put him on the depth chart?

He apologized, but at this point, a conditional second is all we will get.
\
That doesn't mean he won't get a 50 million contract.

why not just wait until after season, he will be a RFA, we tender, if another teams signs they owe us a 1st and 4th right?

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by TonyR

No, the problem with your "logic" here is that he wasn't very marketable three weeks ago, either. Injury, legal issues, and demanding a new contract. Not things many, if any, teams are looking to give up a lot of value for. The only thing you're right about is that his value has decreased.

They did the right thing by not trading him then, and hopefully they'll do the right thing and not trade him now. Unless somebody is willing to give up a lot for him, which is extremely unlikely.

You're right but was his vaulue more three weeks ago or today? The answer was that he value was much greater three weeks ago.

[12th man]

Originally Posted by DrFate

I'm not sure what you are thinking, Blue. It is everybody's fault BUT the noob coach.

The following people/things are at fault for this offseason:

Cutler
Cutler's agent
Cutler's cell phone
Bowlen
Bellicheat
Sunspots
Ninjas
Marshall
Marshall's current girlfriend
Marshall's old girlfriend
Shanahan
Bates (Jeremy)
Bates (Kathy)
Bates (Norman)
Hoodies
The Taliban
Lex
Kool Aid
Thunder (the horse)
Thunder (Cats)
Solomon Wilcots
Mike Vick
PETA
Peta Wilson
Matt Cassel
Matt Millen
Matt Stafford

Did I miss anybody??

Griese.

[worm]

Originally Posted by 12th man

Griese.

Bella

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by DrFate

I'm not sure what you are thinking, Blue. It is everybody's fault BUT the noob coach.

The following people/things are at fault for this offseason:

Cutler
Cutler's agent
Cutler's cell phone
Bowlen
Bellicheat
Sunspots
Ninjas
Marshall
Marshall's current girlfriend
Marshall's old girlfriend
Shanahan
Bates (Jeremy)
Bates (Kathy)
Bates (Norman)
Hoodies
The Taliban
Lex
Kool Aid
Thunder (the horse)
Thunder (Cats)
Solomon Wilcots
Mike Vick
PETA
Peta Wilson
Matt Cassel
Matt Millen
Matt Stafford

Did I miss anybody??

Yep... you forgot that it's your fault and my fault and the fault of every fan who dares to question any move whatsoever that this rookie noob HC makes... we're "bad fans" and this mess is undoubtedly all our doing.

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by RaiderH8r

McDip**** sure knows how to get the best production out of his players. Wow. Once Royal is a bonafide 100 catch receiver McKid will have him cleaning out urinal cakes just to prove to McKid that McKid is the Head Midget in Charge.

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Bowlen said he would TRY to trade Brandon. No one wants Brandon or will pay what the Broncos think he's worth...OBVIOUSLY.

Yeah, and not so long ago people were saying no team would ever give up anything at all for Jay. And after we got two first-rounders for him, they're still saying the Bears won't raise his salary...ever. You have to wait for the proper timeframe to elapse between "we are not going to trade the player" and "the Denver Broncos announce a trade with 'X' team for the player".... it's deja vu and like the Cutler situation, it's beyond the point of resolution. So we'll lose two of our 3 best offensive players from last season because they do not want to work with this coach/front office.