Name your Top 5 favorite bands.☆ Rock Thread ☆

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Just following up on the Eric Clapton argument, I'll bet there are a million guitarists who are "better" than BB King. And yet, he's still filling halls at the age of 89. Why?

Because he's a good businessman.

Not to knock BB's talent, but I was always WAY more impressed by blues guitarists like Albert King, Albert Collins, et al. Those guys were better than BB but didn't get as much recognition simply because their business chops weren't as good.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Hogan11

It's a losing battle Roh...you'll just never convince some that feeling trumps technical ability. My advice is to just write the whole thing off.

My argument re: Trower vs. Clapton was not a "technique vs. feel" argument.

Anyone who knows Trower knows he's not a technician.

My argument is that Trower beats Clapton at EC's own game, i.e., tone, feel, phrasing, etc.

[Northman]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

Ya that's it broaden my ....... horizons and where did ratt go?

What do you mean? I guess time just passed Ratt by. They havent been the same since "Reach for the Sky" and especially when Crosby was out since he was the more influential writer of the band.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by crawdad

One point here, where is Robin Trower today and where is Clapton.

That's the whole point of the argument, i.e. that there is often an inverse relationship between talent and commercial success/popular acclaim in the music business.

[Northman]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

My girfriend in 7th grade (she was in 8th grade, wink, wink) just looooooved Ratt. For my birthday, she wanted to get me something really great. So, she suprised me with a frick'n Motley Crue's Shout At The Devilalbum in my locker. She was all like "Look what I got you!!" she thought it was great... Ratt and Motley Crue where her "favorites". You can imagine my torture.

"Shout at the Devil" is a great record.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

My argument re: Trower vs. Clapton was not a "technique vs. feel" argument.

Anyone who knows Trower knows he's not a technician.

My argument is that Trower beats Clapton at EC's own game, i.e., tone, feel, phrasing, etc.

Really? I've always considered Trower the Michael Bolton of guitar players.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Because he's a good businessman.

Not to knock BB's talent, but I was always WAY more impressed by blues guitarists like Albert King, Albert Collins, et al. Those guys were better than BB but didn't get as much recognition simply because their business chops weren't as good.

Nope. I've seen BB. He puts on a great show and works his ass off. I've always preferred Albert King and Albert Collins (Frosty is one of my favorite blues guitar songs) - and don't forget Freddie King (Hide Away), but BB is damn good. He wrote some good songs and worked hard to get where he is.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Really? I've always considered Trower the Michael Bolton of guitar players.

Michael Bolton?

Don't get the analogy.

I've seen Trower in concert countless times, and he's like a snake charmer with that guitar when he plays live - just hypnotizes an audience.

Clapton stopped growing as a guitarist and a musician a long time ago.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Nope. I've seen BB. He puts on a great show and works his ass off. I've always preferred Albert King and Albert Collins (Frosty is one of my favorite blues guitar songs) - and don't forget Freddie King (Hide Away), but BB is damn good. He wrote some good songs and worked hard to get where he is.

Not denying any of those things about BB - just saying that Albert (and Freddie, for sure) were better guitarists but didn't get nearly as much recognition.

[Hogan11]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Michael Bolton?

Don't get the analogy.

I've seen Trower in concert countless times, and he's like a snake charmer with that guitar when he plays live - just hypnotizes an audience.

Clapton stopped growing as a guitarist and a musician a long time ago.

A very long time ago...who else can you name that has made such a career out of countless variations of Albert King's "Crosscut Saw" solo?

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Michael Bolton?

Don't get the analogy.

I've seen Trower in concert countless times, and he's like a snake charmer with that guitar when he plays live - just hypnotizes an audience.

Clapton stopped growing as a guitarist and a musician a long time ago.

I'm sure it's subjective. When I hear Trower I think, it sounds like Hendrix and yet there's no there, there. All the notes are in the right place, obviously he's a virtuoso, but it doesn't do anything for me. Like Bolton. Sounds like it must be soulful, and yet I don't feel any soul. Sure, Clapton's time has passed. So has Keith Richard's. So has Pete Townsend's. But when they were bringing it, they changed the musical landscape of the world. It's the nature of the world to kick the mighty once they fall.

[Bronx33]

why is trower and clapton even being compared? two ( totally different) artists with totally different styles.

[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I guess the people that go to concerts and worry about technique are the same ones telling everybody else to sit down.

... now that's just funny. I don't care who you are, that's just funny right there.

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I was never a big Neil Young fan, but a friend of my mine who is, once came up and handed me a ticket and said, "You're going to go with me and see Neil Young live." One of the best shows I've ever seen. Rock and Roll is not for technicians. Good rock and roll comes from the gut.

Knothead, I totally agree ... I LOVE Neil Young. You're a smart guy, why can't you make the distinction between 'overall music product' vs. 'specific skill on a particular instrument'? They are definitely two different things, Neil Young is the perfect example ... or another example, you don't have to like the music of Cream or Rush to know Ginger Baker and Neil Peart are extremely talented drummers, in fact Peart is a massively impressive technician.

Now about guitar: I happen to play the instrument, and I play it well. I like to listen to players and evaluate how difficult and unique (or not) they play.

Do you know the guitar tag at the end of Cinnamon Girl? Where he just jams and jams for 16 bars on guitar by itself? Within three lessons, I can teach any person with reasonable dexterity and a well-functioning left brain how to play that. How? Because it's an "open tuning," which means the strings are tuned differently, so when you just strum them (or bang them like Cinnamon Girl) it's a full and proper chord. You don't even need a left hand

This doesn't mean Young's music is bad mind you ... it just means he's a kinda "shortcut" player of the instrument. That's all.

[BroncoBuff]

Okay Roh ... a non-music metaphor: Let's say an avid car mechanic is just gushing over the performance of his '71 Dodge Challenger and it's 426 Hemi engine. He (BroncoBuff) is raving and raving about the mechanical side, while his passenger (Rohirrim) says, "what's the difference if the ride's not smooth? As long as a car gets you where you're going in comfort, who gives a frick?"

You're not a gear-head, fine. But that doesn't diminish the reality of that informed person's interest in a particular aspect of the overall subject at hand.

See?

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Okay Roh ... a non-music metaphor: Let's say an avid car mechanic is just gushing over the performance of his '71 Dodge Challenger and it's 426 Hemi engine. He (BroncoBuff) is raving and raving about the mechanical side, while his passenger (Rohirrim) says, "what's the difference if the ride's not smooth? As long as a car gets you where you're going in comfort, who gives a frick?"

You're not a gear-head, fine. But that doesn't diminish the reality of that informed person's interest in a particular aspect of the overall subject at hand.

See?

But the '71 Hemi Challenger is worth about $1,000,000.00 if complete Mopar parts.

[Hogan11]

My God........

[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

But the '71 Hemi Challenger is worth about $1,000,000.00 if complete Mopar parts.

Yeah, I kinda overdid it with that example

How about Plymouth Super Bird? With the elevated spoiler? WOW-za!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

why is trower and clapton even being compared? two ( totally different) artists with totally different styles.

I brought up the comparison because EC and RT are both British blues/rock guitarists of the same era/generation. Both were influenced by the same American blues musicians. My argument is that RT took those influences and developed them to a greater extent than EC did.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Sure, Clapton's time has passed. So has Keith Richard's. So has Pete Townsend's.

Whose fault is that?

Theirs, mostly - although most everyone who has a long career is obviously, to some degree, at the mercy of changing times and fashions.

They stopped growing as musicians, found comfortable commercial niches for themselves, played it safe, etc.

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Rock and Roll is not for technicians. Good rock and roll comes from the gut.

Not sure I agree unequivocally with this.

I'm with you insofar as I'm not a fan of "shred" guitar (an approach to playing that emphasizes speed and chops for their own sake.) In fact, guitarists like Yngwie Malmsteen and Michael Angelo Battio bore the crap out of me.

That said, technique and feel are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

It's possible to have advanced technique and play with great feeling.

You simply have to separate the boys who are just jacking themselves off (e.g., "let's see how fast I can play this harmonic minor scale sequence or three octave arpeggio") from the men who are actually using technique as a means to an end, i.e., to execute melodic, harmonic, or rhythmic ideas.
(That is to say, separate the guys who are just trying to impress vs. the guys who are trying to communicate something interesting.)

BTW, FWIW, I love Neil Young too. Jamming the sh*t out of "Cinnamon Girl" (like I was last night) still gets me off just as much as playing a challenging fusion tune.

[Hogan11]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

BTW, FWIW, I love Neil Young too. Jamming the sh*t out of "Cinnamon Girl" (like I was last night) still gets me off just as much as playing a challenging fusion tune.

Finally.......I've waited years for a statement like this from you

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Whose fault is that?

Theirs, mostly - although most everyone who has a long career is obviously, to some degree, at the mercy of changing times and fashions.

They stopped growing as musicians, found comfortable commercial niches for themselves, played it safe, etc.



Not sure I agree unequivocally with this.

I'm with you insofar as I'm not a fan of "shred" guitar (an approach to playing that emphasizes speed and chops for their own sake.) In fact, guitarists like Yngwie Malmsteen and Michael Angelo Battio bore the crap out of me.

That said, technique and feel are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

It's possible to have advanced technique and play with great feeling.

You simply have to separate the boys who are just jacking themselves off (e.g., "let's see how fast I can play this harmonic minor scale sequence or three octave arpeggio") from the men who are actually using technique as a means to an end, i.e., to execute melodic, harmonic, or rhythmic ideas.
(That is to say, separate the guys who are just trying to impress vs. the guys who are trying to communicate something interesting.)

BTW, FWIW, I love Neil Young too. Jamming the sh*t out of "Cinnamon Girl" (like I was last night) still gets me off just as much as playing a challenging fusion tune.

Bravo!

In all honesty, when I really sat down and thought about it, I don't listen to anything of Clapton's much beyond his Yardbird, Mayall, Cream days. Pete is probably having difficulties because he deafened himself playing in front of those Marshall stacks all those years and Keith? Keith has cooked too many brain cells. There's only so much a Brazilian blood replacement transfusion can fix.

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Yeah, I kinda overdid it with that example

How about Plymouth Super Bird? With the elevated spoiler? WOW-za!

We must have watched the same auto Auction on HD theater.

[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

We must have watched the same auto Auction on HD theater.

Hahaha, no ... but I've always loved Chrysler muscle cars.

The Plymouth Super Bird and (identical) Dodge Dayton 500 are the most amazing off-the-line cars ever built in America. All by themselves they forced NASCAR to change the rules.

. . . . . . . Dodge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Plymouth

With a 426 Hemi, those cars were so very very wrong for the street ... sick sick cars. Richard Petty won like every race he entered with those cars ... (and that was back when "stock car" really meant "stock")

I think the $1 million you quoted was for one of these, not a Challenegr right?

[Malcontent]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Hahaha, no ... but I've always loved Chrysler muscle cars.

The Plymouth Super Bird and (identical) Dodge Dayton 500 are the most amazing off-the-line cars ever built in America. All by themselves they forced NASCAR to change the rules.

. . . . . . . Dodge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Plymouth

With a 426 Hemi, those cars were so very very wrong for the street ... sick sick cars. Richard Petty won like every race he entered with those cars ... (and that was back when "stock car" really meant "stock")

I think the $1 million you quoted was for one of these, not a Challenegr right?

Dream car= From the 70's movie "Vanishing Point" Bad f'n ass man!

[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by Malcontent

Dream car= From the 70's movie "Vanishing Point" Bad f'n ass man!

Oh MAN! That white Challenger was so wonderful ... (Barry Newman though, not so much). I think that had a 440 six-pack.

LABF's childhood pal Bob Palmer had a role in that movie, too.