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Old 05-31-2009, 04:18 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 View Post
That was not my point. The whole reason for the statute is to outline the conditions where deadly force is allowable and defensible under the law. It assumes that a life threatening condition exists...thus the fact that one did exist originally, has no bearing on altering the clear language of the law, nor does it allow him to access its protections for behavior that he undertook after that condition no longer applied.

Bottom line...he violated the law by acting outside the protective boudaries of the statute, which do not include protection for what he did since he was 1) no longer in a life threatening situation, and 2) had plenty of time to make his decision.

Whether the DA has the stones to see this through is a seperate question, but under the law the DA has filed charges appropriately.
Whether it was your point or not , doesnt change the fact that the kid started the entire thing rolling
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:21 PM   #127
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Footsteps had a RECORD! Whoa! Stop the presses! Guilty of 'stealing some girl's heart?'

--Do I advocate throwing children away--Only if they are Raiders fans......
"Had" a record...legally expunged years ago. Nobody knows what kind of past this kid had, or what he may have gone through. One thing is sure...he didn't deserve to die by execution at the hands of a vigilante. For all we know he might have very well done something great with his future. He might have even been a future Denver Bronco.
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:22 PM   #128
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Whether it was your point or not , doesnt change the fact that the kid started the entire thing rolling
Nobody denies that. That has no legal bearing on this.
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:23 PM   #129
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Nobody denies that. That has no legal bearing on this.
Sure it does ........ Has everything to do with what happened
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:25 PM   #130
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This has got to be the dumbest post known to the mane.

Murder might be a felony but it's not a "fed" offense... assuming that means federal.

The guy clearly intended to kill the individual when he pumped a half dozen shots into him. Intention can be a short period... as Footsteps has said. Noone had to lure the robbers to the store for intention to kill to be present.

They have to show the guy was doing the Pharmacists daughter? I'm sure that was a way of saying they have to prove intent but it comes across as retarded.

I don't think the guy should be charged with murder but the guy definitely doesn't want Spider arguing his case for him...



Maybe if the guy claims he was making sure the pistol was functional incase someone returned? It was safer to dispense the shots into the individual than to risk a ricochet.
you dumb ass the feds can come in and take over a murder case or a kidnapping Case if they feel they need to ....Murder and Kidnapping can fall under the jurisdiction of the feds ......
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:27 PM   #131
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Sure it does ........ Has everything to do with what happened
The law is clear. You have a right to defend yourself if your life is in danger. Since his life was not in danger, he's not eligible for the protection under the law.

Keep spinning this...the evidence will decide this case and from what is on the video alone, plus the ME's report, not to mention the defendant has already been caught lying to the cops...his best chance for aquital is to get a jury of people who have racial motives to let him go.
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:29 PM   #132
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you dumb ass the feds can come in and take over a murder case or a kidnapping Case if they feel they need to ....Murder and Kidnapping can fall under the jurisdiction of the feds ......
Murder does not fall under federal jurisdiction unless it meets guidelines this one does not. The crime didn't involve interstate commerce or cross state lines. It didn't involve the killing of a federal employee, etc...this is a local issue for the city of Oklahoma City/State of OK to decide.

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Old 05-31-2009, 04:35 PM   #133
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I'm confused. If a cop had done this people excuse them because imagine the fear they felt and they are let off. Yet the pharmacist should have been examining the law at the time?
No, I'm saying it may be tried differently, and the community is going to have a much bigger reaction.

This should be murder according to OK state leg. I agree.
There was no presence of danger when the boy was shot the final 5 times.
I see why a lot of people think this clerk should get off, but whether or not you agree with what the man did, the law see this in black and white.
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:38 PM   #134
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Whether it was your point or not , doesnt change the fact that the kid started the entire thing rolling
Right. But it has no bearing on how the man will be charged. The case is about his reactions to the situation, and if they were lawful.
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:12 PM   #135
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I would've found out who the robbers were, had two seperate three-ways with their girlfriend and mothers, respectively, and then sent them each the two videos.
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:16 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 View Post
Murder does not fall under federal jurisdiction unless it meets guidelines this one does not. The crime didn't involve interstate commerce or cross state lines. It didn't involve the killing of a federal employee, etc...this is a local issue for the city of Oklahoma City/State of OK to decide.
Or if they thought it was a civil rights case/issue. But you are right generally speaking its a state thing.

I sure don't see a federal issue here.
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:18 PM   #137
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No, I'm saying it may be tried differently, and the community is going to have a much bigger reaction.

This should be murder according to OK state leg. I agree.
There was no presence of danger when the boy was shot the final 5 times.
I see why a lot of people think this clerk should get off, but whether or not you agree with what the man did, the law see this in black and white.
I was saying earlier a good lawyer will convince prosecution he can make at least one person on the jury believe the kid was dead already. Then prosecution will look at likely jury pool and get the feeling some of these people will pull a jury nullification of the law and acquit.

In the end you would expect to see some sort of plea, with limited jail time. Just my opinion.
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:20 PM   #138
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http://newsok.com/reliable-discount-...rticle/3373412


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A video surveillance recording shows Parker being shot in the head, but does not show Parker on the floor when Ersland unloaded what authorities said were the lethal shots. Ersland claims Parker was getting up and going for a gun. Police found no gun at the scene.
That's now two things he told cops that don't jive...first that he was shot at, and second that the kid had a gun and was going for it. This guy's hanging himself. He should have just said he wasn't thinking clearly or he started flashing back to Iraq and tripped out. When you lie to the cops multiple times...chances are you've got something to hide.

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Old 05-31-2009, 05:24 PM   #139
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I was saying earlier a good lawyer will convince prosecution he can make at least one person on the jury believe the kid was dead already. Then prosecution will look at likely jury pool and get the feeling some of these people will pull a jury nullification of the law and acquit.
How's he going to do that when his client has already stated the guy was moving and going for a gun? To claim the guy was already dead he has to admit he lied to the cops. The video shows he was not even remotely concerned about him while he laid there, so even if a jury forgave him for lying to the cops (as well as his other lie about being shot at which we now know didn't happen) then they'd have to buy into him moving around on the ground when the tape shows he walked right past him and didn't even glance down.

That would take either a very stupid jury or one with an agenda.
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:37 PM   #140
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So racism is dead in this country huh? I assure you from personal experience you are wrong. Second...the testimony of millions of minority people in this country cleary disagrees with you. Are they all wrong?

Anyone with an open mind and any familiarity with the real world knows otherwise. Your own clients will tell you this. Why not listen to what they say?

We know from the evidence of the tape he was not acting in panic. Have you got a more plausible reason for this act? One that also proves why so many people in that town are supporting his actions? One that also can definitively eliminate this explanation?

If so I'd like to hear it.
The race discussion in this country is currently on the "ridiculous" level.

This country is better assimilated than any other in the world, but the conversation is still timbred as though slave masters are still cracking the whip daily. Until the conversation reaches a legitimate, reasonable volume, the conversation will not be had by either side.
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:46 PM   #141
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The race discussion in this country is currently on the "ridiculous" level.

This country is better assimilated than any other in the world, but the conversation is still timbred as though slave masters are still cracking the whip daily. Until the conversation reaches a legitimate, reasonable volume, the conversation will not be had by either side.
This country is not better assimilated than anywhere else in the world, but more to the point, race plays a direct role in the inequities of our judicial system. Regarding this particular case...it's obvious it's ALLREADY coming into play. The black female judge in the case has already received death threats coupled with phone calls calling her the N word.

I suppose that isn't relevant to the perception that race is influencing how people see this case right?
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Old 05-31-2009, 06:06 PM   #142
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This country is not better assimilated than anywhere else in the world, but more to the point, race plays a direct role in the inequities of our judicial system. Regarding this particular case...it's obvious it's ALLREADY coming into play. The black female judge in the case has already received death threats coupled with phone calls calling her the N word.

I suppose that isn't relevant to the perception that race is influencing how people see this case right?
Obviously, the fool(s) who are making such inappropriate gestures to the judge are concerned about whether or not racial favoritism will play a role in the case. Why are they concerned about that? Because they see it every day in the workplace or in school.

Like I said, there are two sides to the story in this generation. To jump on one side or the other based on the person's skin color is no doubt the definition of racism, and it is happening on both sides of the issue here. We'll take your case for instance, where the first thing that you notice is that the kid is black. Nobody else on the thread even insinuated such things, but you had your racism glasses on and you brought your presuppositions to the converstation without knowing anything about the pharmacist. Pharmacists are highly educated people who work in service of people. But in your eyes he's automatically a racist because the kid he shot is black.

What you instead should focus on is the fact that this highly educated professional person with a history of working in the service of his community (black people included...he didnt pull out a gun and shoot him because he was black, but because his life was being threatened) made this decision while his life was endangered, and while a CRIMINAL struck him vulnerable.

I dont think that anyone on this thread has stated that they thought that the extra shots were reasonable, but it is you who chose to turn the conversation into one about blaming one race or the other.
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Old 05-31-2009, 06:28 PM   #143
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Like I said, there are two sides to the story in this generation. To jump on one side or the other based on the person's skin color is no doubt the definition of racism, and it is happening on both sides of the issue here. We'll take your case for instance, where the first thing that you notice is that the kid is black.
Actually the first thing I noticed was an immediate attempt to excuse a cold blooded murder by rationalizing in every possible way that what happened was not only appropriate, but heroic, followed by the fact that I scanned several hundred comments on the web via various blogs and discussion forums which included all kinds of vile hate filled diatribes on race; hence my initial question in here..."would this be seen differently if his name were Brent rather than Antwun?"...a legitimate question given the context of the crime and the victim's race as well as the actions of those in OKC lining up to support this act of homicide and castigate the judge based on her race.
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Nobody else on the thread even insinuated such things, but you had your racism glasses on and you brought your presuppositions to the converstation without knowing anything about the pharmacist. Pharmacists are highly educated people who work in service of people. But in your eyes he's automatically a racist because the kid he shot is black.
I never once even hinted that the pharmacist was motivated by race. I asked if the perception of the crime by the public was different because of race...that has zero to do with the pharmacist, and despite his educational background and "service to people", he's already lied to the police at least twice, and also to the media about why he shot this kid.
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What you instead should focus on is the fact that this highly educated professional person with a history of working in the service of his community (black people included...he didnt pull out a gun and shoot him because he was black, but because his life was being threatened) made this decision while his life was endangered, and while a CRIMINAL struck him vulnerable.
Utterly untrue...he did NOT make this decision "while his life was being threatened" as you say he did. The video proves beyond any doubt that is false. He made it when the kid was no risk to him at all, which is why he's being charged with murder, not killing someone in self defense. Apparently you didn't look at the time stamped video, or if you did you're ignoring the clear evidence of what happened.
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I dont think that anyone on this thread has stated that they thought that the extra shots were reasonable, but it is you who chose to turn the conversation into one about blaming one race or the other.
Not only did people state the shots were reasonable...they made a point of suggesting things like the "societal garbage" being removed from the earth was cause for celebration and using terms like "hood rat" in discussing why he got his just deserts and would have grown up to kill other people so his murder was a heroic act.

Did you even read this thread?

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Old 05-31-2009, 06:29 PM   #144
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Right. But it has no bearing on how the man will be charged. The case is about his reactions to the situation, and if they were lawful.
Sure it does . as I said the Pharmacist isnt innocent but murder charge hasnt been met . man1 at the most
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Old 05-31-2009, 07:11 PM   #145
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Sure it does . as I said the Pharmacist isnt innocent but murder charge hasnt been met . man1 at the most
My point is the 'He started it' argument is irrelevant. The 1st shot was justified, the final 5 weren't. I'm not arguing what the charge will be. I'm just saying the initial shot and the boy's intentions aren't the items in question.
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Old 05-31-2009, 07:19 PM   #146
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Watching the video, it appears the kid he chased out the door had a gun but no gun appears to be shown by the dead kid. He spent the entire time fumbling with the ski mask. He may have had one, but in the video he's only shown trying to get the mask on. In any case, it's obvious the pharmacist knew he was not a threat because he checked to see what he was doing before he left the store, and upon his return he had no fear of walking right past him to get his gun.
I don't really feel it matters who had the gun or had a gun. There was a gun in the equation. The employee did not know if the dead suspect had a gun or didn't. If I were in his shoes I would have felt it to be safer than sorry.

It's just a shame they decided to rob and steal. That's were this all started. Terrible.
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Old 05-31-2009, 07:20 PM   #147
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Oklahoma law say it is murder.
I'd say that's subjective at this point.
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Old 05-31-2009, 07:28 PM   #148
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My point is the 'He started it' argument is irrelevant. The 1st shot was justified, the final 5 weren't. I'm not arguing what the charge will be. I'm just saying the initial shot and the boy's intentions aren't the items in question.
but it is relevant ...........
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:08 PM   #149
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well my dady always said that thievs prefered unarmed victims.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:21 PM   #150
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well my dady always said that thievs prefered unarmed victims.
Interesting. My daddy always said that you can only eat a steak so thick or drink a martini so dry.
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