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Old 05-31-2009, 12:24 AM   #76
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Let me let you in on a widely known secret 27 , a DA or an officer of the law can charge you with anything , but proving it in a court of law is a different matter
Medical examiner + security video = pretty good case.
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:31 AM   #77
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I think that your bringing race into the conversation is a reference to this situation, but I think that its foolhardy and a held-over opinion from a generation past. Poor is poor. Black, white, whatever. The people that see race in these issues are blinded by their own biases and caught up in something that exists only in the whispers of the dead.
You're so right. The justice system is utterly color blind and so are the people sending death threats to the black judge calling her the N word. No worries...we've solved it all, and the dozens of studies and stark reality of the damaging statistics demonstrating otherwise are all utter nonsense.

My biases here were dealt with 14 years ago BTW.
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:34 AM   #78
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Medical examiner + security video = pretty good case.
sure it is for manslaughter , but not murder
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:38 AM   #79
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You're so right. The justice system is utterly color blind and so are the people sending death threats to the black judge calling her the N word. No worries...we've solved it all, and the dozens of studies and stark reality of the damaging statistics demonstrating otherwise are all utter nonsense.

My biases here were dealt with 14 years ago BTW.
Race arguments are for idiots.

I'm not accusing you of being an idiot, but of appealing to them. White idiots and black idiots alike.
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:20 AM   #80
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This is just another one of these recent cases where a wonderful thing happened, and unfortunately, the person that did the good deed will be punished.

Should the owner be punished? Of course. It's clear that he went beyond legal limits. But, that doesn't take away the great deed he did for society.... cleaning some societal garbage off of the streets for us.

Hopefully he'll receive leniency in sentencing. I do believe there are circumstances that are considered when trying cases like this. I can't recall the name... but there's some kind of "under duress" consideration I've heard being brought into these sentences.
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:23 AM   #81
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The funny part is how fast that dudes partner took off when the shooting started. He saw his buddies head get blasted and ran like the little punk he is.

I can't think of a harder profession to find a good partner in. Criminals notorious for being dishonest and untrustworthy.

They ran in like some tough guys and found out the hard way they were a couple of little pussies.

I hope the shooter doesn't do a lot of time.

IMO 2 yrs would be a fair amount of time for him to think about why you don't shoot someone, even a thug loser like this kid, when they are already incapacitated.

Let's face it the life he took was worthless to society, but this pharmacist is obviously someone who contributes so society and IMO we don't want to spend money keeping him in prison when he could be out making money and paying taxes. I want people in prison who are a threat to society, not this guy.
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Old 05-31-2009, 06:32 AM   #82
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It's because the dude went got another gun, came back, and shot the guy execution style, point blank into the chest.

Hard to argue you were in fear. Better argument IMO is to try and say the robber was already dead from shot to head.

Otherwise that dude should have erased the film, lost the film, something.
4 cops fire 41 shots into an unarmed guy and they were in fear?

So if the medical examiner says the kids was still technically alive doesn't that play into "his life may have still been in danger"? All I'm saying is what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.
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Old 05-31-2009, 07:55 AM   #83
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Race arguments are for idiots.

I'm not accusing you of being an idiot, but of appealing to them. White idiots and black idiots alike.
So racism is dead in this country huh? I assure you from personal experience you are wrong. Second...the testimony of millions of minority people in this country cleary disagrees with you. Are they all wrong?

Anyone with an open mind and any familiarity with the real world knows otherwise. Your own clients will tell you this. Why not listen to what they say?

We know from the evidence of the tape he was not acting in panic. Have you got a more plausible reason for this act? One that also proves why so many people in that town are supporting his actions? One that also can definitively eliminate this explanation?

If so I'd like to hear it.
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:08 AM   #84
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This is just another one of these recent cases where a wonderful thing happened, and unfortunately, the person that did the good deed will be punished.

Should the owner be punished? Of course. It's clear that he went beyond legal limits. But, that doesn't take away the great deed he did for society.... cleaning some societal garbage off of the streets for us.
Here's a pix of the "societal garbage"...



This was a boy who by emerging accounts, had never been in trouble before, another example of a young kid who make an incredibly poor decision; one that now appears may have been influenced and orchestrated by an adult in his life. In this case, it ended his life before he had the chance to make changes someone else might have been able to reach him with.

But you're right...every 16 year old kid in America should be murdered in cold blood if they make the kind of mistake this one did. Let nobody say you're not a reasonable, intelligent, well balanced person.
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:57 AM   #85
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sure it is for manslaughter , but not murder
Watch this video: http://www.koco.com/news/19522256/detail.html

He should change his defense to not guilty by reason of limited mental capacity, because this guy's either lying through his teeth or he's dumber than dirt. Listening to him...I think it's a little of both.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:06 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 View Post
Watch this video: http://www.koco.com/news/19522256/detail.html

He should change his defense to not guilty by reason of limited mental capacity, because this guy's either lying through his teeth or he's dumber than dirt. Listening to him...I think it's a little of both.
Not really , I understand his line of thinking , I have been there ........
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:23 AM   #87
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Living in OK, racism here isn't really against blacks its against mexicans. I have little problem with the pharmacist wasting the thug. He is a thug, not a kid. He had the nads to go into a store with gun in hand. That is where he lost his right to life.
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:24 AM   #88
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IMO 2 yrs would be a fair amount of time for him to think about why you don't shoot someone, even a thug loser like this kid, when they are already incapacitated.
I'd be pissed if it were anything more than 6 months.
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:51 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27
Watch this video: http://www.koco.com/news/19522256/detail.html

He should change his defense to not guilty by reason of limited mental capacity, because this guy's either lying through his teeth or he's dumber than dirt. Listening to him...I think it's a little of both.

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Not really , I understand his line of thinking , I have been there ........
Guess what? So have I...doesnt' matter.

What you're telling me is that when he says, "I wasn't trying to kill him", that you believe this combat veteran actually didn't know that pumping 5 bullets into the stomach and chest of a guy laying motionless on the floor would kill him? If that's true...then yes...he's mentally deficient.

Explain your reasoning here. I'm pretty sure anyone...let alone a combat vet...would know the results of that action.

Here's some very damaging video equipped with time stamping so you can see the thing exactly as it unfolded:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=eed_1243733340

Look at this according to the time counter:

1) 40 min 34 sec- robbers enter the store
2) 40 min 35-45 sec- Antwun Parker never pulls a weapon, but struggles to put on a ski mask instead.
3) 40 min 46 sec- Parker is shot and falls to the floor
4) 40 min 50 sec- Pharmacist heads to front door to pursue 2nd robber
5) 40 min 50.5 sec- Pharmacist turns head to see Parker on the floor
6) 41 min 15 sec- Pharmacist returns to the store
7) 41 min 17 sec- Pharmacist walks past the body of Parker
8) 41 min 32 sec- Pharmacist returns and fires 5 shots, killing Parker

Several things...first; Parker never points a gun at anyone, and appears to not even have one, but spent the entire time leading up to him being shot in the head fumbling with his ski mask, and from the time the store owner leaves the store to pursue the other kid, to his return...is a full 25 seconds, plus another 17 seconds before he kills the kid. That's 42 seconds that he had to think through what he was about to do. If you look at the video, he not only walks past the kid on the floor, he actually never even stops to see if the kid is still a threat or not. That's because it was obvious he wasn't and if you look at the tape at 40:52.5 you can see hiim turn his head to check if the guy is moving or still a threat before he leaves the store. That's not panic, it's an experienced combat veteran checking his surroundings before proceeding.

If this guy had been scared for his life, would he have casually walked right back into the store and walked right up to this guy and never even looked down to see if he's still moving or trying to reach a weapon? No way. He's not some 18 year old kid who panicked, he's a 57 year old combat vet from the Gulf War who knew from experience before he even left out the door this guy wasn't a threat. Then on his return, he took the time to walk to the counter and get his gun, which took another 17 seconds, then return to shoot him to death, there is no question that he had ample opportunity to make a different choice than the one he did. Nobody can reasonably argue differently.

According to Oklahoma law, he did not act in fear of his life or in self defense when he fired the fatal shots. Anyone with an open mind can see that by looking at this tape.
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:54 AM   #90
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The guy was obviously possessed, IMO. Just so full of rage because of whatthe holdup men had done: Threaten his life.
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:01 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 View Post
Here's a pix of the "societal garbage"...



This was a boy who by emerging accounts, had never been in trouble before, another example of a young kid who make an incredibly poor decision; one that now appears may have been influenced and orchestrated by an adult in his life. In this case, it ended his life before he had the chance to make changes someone else might have been able to reach him with. .
Sorry man, I didn't know he was black. I guess that should change my opinion. Innocent people should die for him. My bad.

Tell you what, let's keep letting these kids (of any color) fire up stores, neighborhoods and shopping malls and leading police on chases just so we can hopefully "reach" one of them.

Good point. There's no amount of innocent lives that matters. If 100 innocent people are killed, it's still best that we saved these kids so we can "reach" them.

Or, maybe the douche-bags who raise these kids could get their **** together so they're not shooting up innocent people? Crazy idea, I know.

Run into a place waving a gun and/or shooting at people, and it shouldn't be a real surprise to you if you end up dead.

You champion the criminals, Footsteps... I'll side with the innocent.

This shop owner went too far. We can agree with that. I still understand why he did.
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:06 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27
Watch this video: http://www.koco.com/news/19522256/detail.html

He should change his defense to not guilty by reason of limited mental capacity, because this guy's either lying through his teeth or he's dumber than dirt. Listening to him...I think it's a little of both.


Guess what? So have I...doesnt' matter.

What you're telling me is that when he says, "I wasn't trying to kill him", that you believe this combat veteran actually didn't know that pumping 5 bullets into the stomach and chest of a guy laying motionless on the floor would kill him? If that's true...then yes...he's mentally deficient.

Explain your reasoning here. I'm pretty sure anyone...let alone a combat vet...would know the results of that action.
My uncle took 6 rounds and lived , my dad took a 38 hollow point and lived , several people have taken multiple rounds and lived .......

Quote:
Here's some very damaging video equipped with time stamping so you can see the thing exactly as it unfolded:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=eed_1243733340

Look at this according to the time counter:

1) 40 min 34 sec- robbers enter the store
2) 40 min 35-45 sec- Antwun Parker never pulls a weapon, but struggles to put on a ski mask instead.
3) 40 min 46 sec- Parker is shot and falls to the floor
4) 40 min 50 sec- Pharmacist heads to front door to pursue 2nd robber
5) 40 min 50.5 sec- Pharmacist turns head to see Parker on the floor
6) 41 min 15 sec- Pharmacist returns to the store
7) 41 min 17 sec- Pharmacist walks past the body of Parker
8) 41 min 32 sec- Pharmacist returns and fires 5 shots, killing Parker

Several things...first; Parker never points a gun at anyone, and appears to not even have one, but spent the entire time leading up to him being shot in the head fumbling with his ski mask, and from the time the store owner leaves the store to pursue the other kid, to his return...is a full 25 seconds, plus another 17 seconds before he kills the kid. That's 42 seconds that he had to think through what he was about to do. If you look at the video, he not only walks past the kid on the floor, he actually never even stops to see if the kid is still a threat or not. That's because it was obvious he wasn't and if you look at the tape at 40:52.5 you can see hiim turn his head to check if the guy is moving or still a threat before he leaves the store. That's not panic, it's an experienced combat veteran checking his surroundings before proceeding.

If this guy had been scared for his life, would he have casually walked right back into the store and walked right up to this guy and never even looked down to see if he's still moving or trying to reach a weapon? No way. He's not some 18 year old kid who panicked, he's a 57 year old combat vet from the Gulf War who knew from experience before he even left out the door this guy wasn't a threat. Then on his return, he took the time to walk to the counter and get his gun, which took another 17 seconds, then return to shoot him to death, there is no question that he had ample opportunity to make a different choice than the one he did. Nobody can reasonably argue differently.

According to Oklahoma law, he did not act in fear of his life or in self defense when he fired the fatal shots. Anyone with an open mind can see that by looking at this tape.
I never said the Pharmacist is innocent , or acted in fear of his life , I have said Man 1 to man 3 charge , you havent proved murder, if anything it is an over excess of force , while trying to stop a FELONY ARMED ROBBERY......Murder doesnt fit
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:08 AM   #93
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Sorry man, I didn't know he was black. I guess that should change my opinion. Innocent people should die for him. My bad.

Tell you what, let's keep letting these kids (of any color) fire up stores, neighborhoods and shopping malls and leading police on chases just so we can hopefully "reach" one of them.

Good point. There's no amount of innocent lives that matters. If 100 innocent people are killed, it's still best that we saved these kids so we can "reach" them.

Or, maybe the douche-bags who raise these kids could get their **** together so they're not shooting up innocent people? Crazy idea, I know.

Run into a place waving a gun and/or shooting at people, and it shouldn't be a real surprise to you if you end up dead.

You champion the criminals, Footsteps... I'll side with the innocent.

This shop owner went too far. We can agree with that. I still understand why he did.
Watch the tape. He never pulls a gun, but I'm not arguing that he didn't deserve to get shot in the head...nice spin though. I'm arguing that the Pharmacist broke the law when he spent 42 seconds from the time he left the store, and 17 seconds once he walked right past the kid on the floor, before killing him. That is not self defense, no matter what you say, and the DA agrees.

You can clam to "champion the innocent" all you wish...but the guy you're defending commited a murder. How exactly that makes him innocent...is something I'm sure you can rationalize in your mind, but it's still pure bull****.
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:08 AM   #94
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Diffenately not murder. In fact I would find it hard to charge him at all.
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:09 AM   #95
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Watch the tape. He never pulls a gun, but I'm not arguing that he didn't deserve to get shot in the head...nice spin though.
Was there a gun at all in the video?
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:10 AM   #96
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My uncle took 6 rounds and lived , my dad took a 38 hollow point and lived , several people have taken multiple rounds and lived .......



I never said the Pharmacist is innocent , or acted in fear of his life , I have said Man 1 to man 3 charge , you havent proved murder, if anything it is an over excess of force , while trying to stop a FELONY ARMED ROBBERY......Murder doesnt fit
42 seconds between the time he checked the kid to see if he was a threat and the time he killed him after determining he wasn't...that's murder. The DA says it's a murder charge, so perhaps you should contact him and tell him why he's wrong.
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:12 AM   #97
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Was there a gun at all in the video?
Watching the video, it appears the kid he chased out the door had a gun but no gun appears to be shown by the dead kid. He spent the entire time fumbling with the ski mask. He may have had one, but in the video he's only shown trying to get the mask on. In any case, it's obvious the pharmacist knew he was not a threat because he checked to see what he was doing before he left the store, and upon his return he had no fear of walking right past him to get his gun.
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:13 AM   #98
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Diffenately not murder. In fact I would find it hard to charge him at all.
Oklahoma law say it is murder.
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:25 AM   #99
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42 seconds between the time he checked the kid to see if he was a threat and the time he killed him after determining he wasn't...that's murder. The DA says it's a murder charge, so perhaps you should contact him and tell him why he's wrong.
Oh knock it off , I already explained how it works , you are reaching pretty hard here ,48 seconds , Man 1 at the most , your and the DA are having pipe dreams over murder .....
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:25 AM   #100
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Oklahoma law say it is murder.
Laws say a lot of things are murder, yet people get lesser sentences all the time. It's over and done with. Let the court say what the crime and punishment is when this is over.
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