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Old 05-26-2009, 03:40 PM   #101
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A link to this co called fact that it is a choice.
We can solve it logically. To be fair I should have posted above that it can be choice. It can be genetic. Rarely are things only nature or only nurture

"There exists" and "Every"

Every person that is gay is so by genetics. Can you say this is true? For one we can't even prove this to be true in any lab anywhere. In fact the best we could ever say is there is a correalation. That's not causation.


There exists a person that has decided to have sex with a same sex partner. Can we say this is true? Certainly we can. The fact that we have people that sexually experiment says this is true. We also have case studies of men leaving wives for other men and then returing to their wives or another female consort.

Now compare this to skin color, which is determined by genetics after years of environment(nurture) exposure to different regions of our world. And you realize that race and gayness aren't even in the same ball park at this point. Not even in the same league at this point.

You don't even have facts that say gayness is genetic yet you except this as fact. Why?
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:40 PM   #102
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A link for what. Are you saying being gay is Genetic? I would say that is something you should get a link proving if that is the case.

Certainly you agree being black, or white, or Latino is genetic.
what Iwould bring up ( being raised on a farm) s there are just as many homosexuals in the animal kingdom as there are strait ...... Dairy cows are a bunch of lesbos .. they will mount each other when they come in heat Chickens , pigs , dogs, rabbits ........
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:41 PM   #103
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Even if it was a choice (I can't imagine why somebody would choose to be gay) what the hell do you care what two consenting adults do with their naughty parts?
I didn't say they couldn't have sex with each other, only that they have no right to claim discrimination and compare themselves as an entire group to other based on genetics.
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:43 PM   #104
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I'm sure there are genetic traits that make people more likely to be gay or lesbian, but I doubt there is a gay genetic marker.

For one they have identical twins, some are both gay, some both straight, some a 50/50 gay/straight. So that likely means that environment and experiences play a huge roll in whether or not someone becomes gay.

If it is genetic then they should do some stem cell gene therapy and make sure no dudes are gay. Wouldn't all the straight guys in the room agree that being straight has got to be better. We should push for all our brothers to be fixed!!!!!

But I think that is nonsense, it's not genetic, it's experiences and people just become who they become. Nothing wrong with it, just the way it is. You won't change it through DNA, or trying to go the religious route and make them feel like sinners.

I just don't see why they should get any perks to being married. What do gay people do to help country become stronger and younger?
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:49 PM   #105
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what Iwould bring up ( being raised on a farm) s there are just as many homosexuals in the animal kingdom as there are strait ...... Dairy cows are a bunch of lesbos .. they will mount each other when they come in heat Chickens , pigs , dogs, rabbits ........
Well I have heard that before but that doesn't mean that it's genetic. If so then why do some humans with identical genes turn out one gay one straight?

If a straight guy can kid himself and he really is a closet homo, then its logical it could also go the other way, people who think they are gay aren't.

My question would be have you ever seen a female cow, that not only would go lesbo, but also refuse the bull?

IMO bisexuality much more logical. You get all the sex, but the will to procreate and attracting to other sex is always present.

Spider I'm not saying I know. My main argument isn't that gays are wrong or need to be fixed. I think people just become what they become and its about 90% environment and experiences. But my other point is societies made benefits to marriage, because they feel families, having babies, raising those babies, is good for society.

Gays dont do that, convince me, a single guy, they deserve any type of tax benefit or loan application etc over me.

You, I can live with. You need to be able to claim kids, they are tough to raise. One day your kids will be paying my social security. I totally understand that reasoning.

I'd like to someone to tell my why gays need to be married to live the lifestyle they want to live?
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:54 PM   #106
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what Iwould bring up ( being raised on a farm) s there are just as many homosexuals in the animal kingdom as there are strait ...... Dairy cows are a bunch of lesbos .. they will mount each other when they come in heat Chickens , pigs , dogs, rabbits ........
also on the farm dudes screw animals, because it happens does that make it normal or genetic? Or more just because the environment of farm life?
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:55 PM   #107
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I didn't say they couldn't have sex with each other, only that they have no right to claim discrimination and compare themselves as an entire group to other based on genetics.
You can therefore say the same thing about race. That a person of color has "no right to claim discrimination and compare themselves as an entire group to other based on genetics". So how is interracial marriage any different to same sex marriage on this basis?
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:57 PM   #108
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Well I have heard that before but that doesn't mean that it's genetic. If so then why do some humans with identical genes turn out one gay one straight?

If a straight guy can kid himself and he really is a closet homo, then its logical it could also go the other way, people who think they are gay aren't.

My question would be have you ever seen a female cow, that not only would go lesbo, but also refuse the bull?

IMO bisexuality much more logical. You get all the sex, but the will to procreate and attracting to other sex is always present.

Spider I'm not saying I know. My main argument isn't that gays are wrong or need to be fixed. I think people just become what they become and its about 90% environment and experiences. But my other point is societies made benefits to marriage, because they feel families, having babies, raising those babies, is good for society.

Gays dont do that, convince me, a single guy, they deserve any type of tax benefit or loan application etc over me.

You, I can live with. You need to be able to claim kids, they are tough to raise. One day your kids will be paying my social security. I totally understand that reasoning.

I'd like to someone to tell my why gays need to be married to live the lifestyle they want to live?
Dude if I had the answers i wouldnt be a trucker , I would be a multi Billionaire hiring hookers to rub his feet ........ all I know is there are just as many homos in the animal kingdom , as strait ......... why would someone choose to be gay ? Hell I dont know ........ But I will add this a doc one time told me mt testosterone levels were off the chart , maybe that has something to do with it
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:59 PM   #109
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also on the farm dudes screw animals, because it happens does that make it normal or genetic? Or more just because the environment of farm life?
I would like to see someone screw an animal , your average barn yard animal dont want to see you or be near you unless it is feeding time ........ Maybe you would like to try ? I can arrange it
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:01 PM   #110
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Most people, as well as most of you it seems, misunderstand the desire to disallow gay marriage.

If I have a bachelors degree which took me X amount of work, money and time and you arbitrarily change the requirements to such an amount that my bachelors degree no longer has the same value or meaning I would protest against those wanting to create the change.

The same applies to marriage, it isn't about not letting gays obtain rights or benefits. By changing the definition of marriage rather than creating a different type of union for gays, you are making my marriage different....as I want my bachelors degree to retain its original value, so do I want my marriage to be (whether that be spiritual or not).

So, again, not about hate or prejudice. It is simply about protecting what you have.

On a side note, Polygomy has the longest history with marriage yet is illegal and shunned in this country. How long before you see this legalized and what argument could you have against it if the terms of marriage are changed now?
Alright, then let's say someone else puts in the exact same amount of work for their degree as you have for yours, and then your university denies them their diploma because they are gay. That's more akin to what we're talking about.

And what exactly are you protecting by denying gay marriage? So two men get married or two women get married. It has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING ON YOU OR YOUR MARRIAGE.

Your argument is very "separate but equal," and based entirely on arbitrary prejudice. Sorry.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:09 PM   #111
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Homosexual people have existed from the beginning of man. Get over it.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:11 PM   #112
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Gays dont do that, convince me, a single guy, they deserve any type of tax benefit or loan application etc over me.
I don't think any gay people are claiming they deserve rights OVER you. Just the same as you.


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I'd like to someone to tell my why gays need to be married to live the lifestyle they want to live?
I think it's partially just about recognition. The same reasons you don't want them to marry are among the same reasons they want to.

Beyond that, you have issues of medical coverage, insurance, joint tax filing, divorce and proper divorce proceeding, due legal process, etc.

Again, it just really boils down to the issue of them considering it to be a civil right, and those opposed... claiming that it is not. It's a tricky situation, but having lived in CA for coming up on 20 years, I can tell you that my impression of how most gays handle themselves has been pretty positive.

I'm married with two kids and cherish the tradition of marriage, but I also don't think a couple of women who love each other being married on a beach will harm my children over the long-haul.

I could rattle off 100 issues that would concern me more for the sanctity of the American family than two same-sex partners responsibly joining as a recognized couple.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:14 PM   #113
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I don't think any gay people are claiming they deserve rights OVER you. Just the same as you.
Yeah cuts ... no duh.

I don't your objections, cuts ... nobody's taking anything away from you, there's nothing to be worried about.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:20 PM   #114
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also on the farm dudes screw animals, because it happens does that make it normal or genetic? Or more just because the environment of farm life?
I grew up on a farm. With over 50 head of sheep no less. Not once did I ever even consider having sex with one. Or the horses. Or the chickens. Now I live in L.A. and have been propositioned many times for gay sex. I have had gay roommates. Never once have I ever considered taking up an offer. Not even while under the influence. I just have no desire for anything other than a woman. Hence, I would be inclined to believe it is genetic. I just don't see how you would do something that you have no desire in simply because you are exposed to it.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:21 PM   #115
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I'm sure there are genetic traits that make people more likely to be gay or lesbian, but I doubt there is a gay genetic marker.

For one they have identical twins, some are both gay, some both straight, some a 50/50 gay/straight. So that likely means that environment and experiences play a huge roll in whether or not someone becomes gay.

If it is genetic then they should do some stem cell gene therapy and make sure no dudes are gay. Wouldn't all the straight guys in the room agree that being straight has got to be better. We should push for all our brothers to be fixed!!!!!

But I think that is nonsense, it's not genetic, it's experiences and people just become who they become. Nothing wrong with it, just the way it is. You won't change it through DNA, or trying to go the religious route and make them feel like sinners.

I just don't see why they should get any perks to being married. What do gay people do to help country become stronger and younger?
Oh come on, man. That's ridiculous.

I'm admittedly homo-phobic to an extent, but people have the right to live their own lives, especially on issues that were predetermined for them. And no way it's a choice outside of some attention seeking bi-girls (who I love, btw). Listen, I'm pretty sure I don't have a specific gene saying I don't like asparagus, but that doesn't mean it was a learned trait. I don't ****ing like asparagus.

I wrote one of the guys I was in the Marines with a year back and found out he's gay. Turns out the entire time he was in, he was in denial, a raging alcoholic and almost committed suicide on a daily basis because that's just who he was, and his learned social experiences with it, and I'm probably largely to blame for this, was that it's wrong and unacceptable. He didn't choose to be what he is. He is what he is.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:22 PM   #116
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I would like to see someone screw an animal , your average barn yard animal dont want to see you or be near you unless it is feeding time ........ Maybe you would like to try ? I can arrange it
what's she like?
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:24 PM   #117
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Oh come on, man. That's ridiculous.

I'm admittedly homo-phobic to an extent, but people have the right to live their own lives, especially on issues that were predetermined for them. And no way it's a choice outside of some attention seeking bi-girls (who I love, btw). Listen, I'm pretty sure I don't have a specific gene saying I don't like asparagus, but that doesn't mean it was a learned trait. I don't ****ing like asparagus.

I wrote one of the guys I was in the Marines with a year back and found out he's gay. Turns out the entire time he was in, he was in denial, a raging alcoholic and almost committed suicide on a daily basis because that's just who he was, and his learned social experiences with it, and I'm probably largely to blame for this, was that it's wrong and unacceptable. He didn't choose to be what he is. He is what he is.

That's fine I agree with all of it. People can do what they want, and it really doesn't matter to me why it happened. Genetic, environment, experience, who cares someone wants to be gay I am fine with.

But convince me they should get marriage benifits. My point is they only exist because the govt wanted the morality of marriage, the family unit, so they would have kids and keep country young.

Convince me gays are important enough for the perks and legal protections and obligations of marriage.

Also re read my post rev, I say in it that part of what I said was in jest, maybe you didn't understand. Because all of the points you made, I already made.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:28 PM   #118
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That's fine I agree with all of it. People can do what they want, and it really doesn't matter to me why it happened. Genetic, environment, experience, who cares someone wants to be gay I am fine with.

But convince me they should get marriage benifits. My point is they only exist because the govt wanted the morality of marriage, the family unit, so they would have kids and keep country young.

Convince me gays are important enough for the perks and legal protections and obligations of marriage.

Also re read my post rev, I say in it that part of what I said was in jest, maybe you didn't understand. Because all of the points you made, I already made.
In all fairness, the vote was rigged. They held it on national cock sucking day.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:29 PM   #119
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I grew up on a farm. With over 50 head of sheep no less. Not once did I ever even consider having sex with one. Or the horses. Or the chickens. Now I live in L.A. and have been propositioned many times for gay sex. I have had gay roommates. Never once have I ever considered taking up an offer. Not even while under the influence. I just have no desire for anything other than a woman. Hence, I would be inclined to believe it is genetic. I just don't see how you would do something that you have no desire in simply because you are exposed to it.
Right whatever way you lean is ok. I can see it being one or the other, or a combo of both. My point is I don't care, convince me gays are a benefit to society like a straight couple? The only reason govt even cared to make marriage different then being single was because it followed the christian teachings, and led to more stable families to have kids.

I have not heard one good argument that gays are somehow going to improve society by being married. If not then why any perks?
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:31 PM   #120
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You can therefore say the same thing about race. That a person of color has "no right to claim discrimination and compare themselves as an entire group to other based on genetics". So how is interracial marriage any different to same sex marriage on this basis?
Race is genetic. So yes you could say that, but since skin color is rarely ever a choice. Same sex intercourse is however a choice, and that choice does not establish discrimination in the same network as race.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:31 PM   #121
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That's fine I agree with all of it. People can do what they want, and it really doesn't matter to me why it happened. Genetic, environment, experience, who cares someone wants to be gay I am fine with.

But convince me they should get marriage benifits. My point is they only exist because the govt wanted the morality of marriage, the family unit, so they would have kids and keep country young.

Convince me gays are important enough for the perks and legal protections and obligations of marriage.

Also re read my post rev, I say in it that part of what I said was in jest, maybe you didn't understand. Because all of the points you made, I already made.
I don't think gays should have to "convince you" of anything.

Those who wish to RESTRICT rights have the burden of persuasion.

So, YOU convince ME why a person should be excluded form the fundamental right of marriage because of the gender of their partner.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:32 PM   #122
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I grew up on a farm. With over 50 head of sheep no less. Not once did I ever even consider having sex with one. Or the horses. Or the chickens. Now I live in L.A. and have been propositioned many times for gay sex. I have had gay roommates. Never once have I ever considered taking up an offer. Not even while under the influence. I just have no desire for anything other than a woman. Hence, I would be inclined to believe it is genetic. I just don't see how you would do something that you have no desire in simply because you are exposed to it.
Much of what I said about the animals was in jest. I'm sure a very small percentage of farm boys are screwing sheep. It's just not natural.

I won't argue against the DNA thing, I'm just not smart enough to answer that or argue it any further then to say I'm not convinced.

In any event the people spoke, the courts spoke, time to move on and worry about our economy not gay rights.

They can try again in a couple yrs and they will probably win.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:32 PM   #123
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Homosexual people have existed from the beginning of man. Get over it.
But never in a family model being promoted here in this country. Even in older times it was considered a devation.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:32 PM   #124
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So did you guys miss my joke...?

I was sure that was gonna be a grand slam.

Or am I losing my touch?
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:35 PM   #125
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I'm sure there are genetic traits that make people more likely to be gay or lesbian, but I doubt there is a gay genetic marker.

For one they have identical twins, some are both gay, some both straight, some a 50/50 gay/straight. So that likely means that environment and experiences play a huge roll in whether or not someone becomes gay.
This is more likely the answer. Why do kids that are sexually abused become gay. I mean to pedophiles just know which ones to pick?
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