Thermitic Material discovered in WTC Ruins

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by baja

W*GS they could stick a bomb up your ass and you'd claim it was intestinal gas.

You'd blame gas on a bomb up your ass, instead of the four cans of refritos you just ate.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by Spider

yes it does .seriously everyones DNA becomes a suspect ......... Dude you are so far removed from reality , you are making gaff look sane

Dont worry WIGS, some of us (or should I say most) know what you mean. Maybe it is a high school graduating thing.

[gyldenlove]

Iron oxide = rust, not an entirely uncommon dust to find in a building with an iron skeleton.

Things made of elemental aluminium in WTC: the airplanes, the window frames, electric wires, non structural seperations, it is also a content of paints.

Glass (a main building material in WTC) consists of silicon oxide with aluminium and other metals often added for tinting.

Molybdenum is used to manufacture jet engine parts and is often used as a welding material.

Carbon, well it is found in the air, it is the main constituent of organic materials such as humans, wood and fabrics. All 3 of which were common in WTC.

Considering that rust and aluminium were both found abundantly in the burning area it is not inconcievable that they could have combined to form a thermic reaction (this happens) and burned melted the molybdenum and weakened the structure sufficiently to collapse the towers.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

Dont worry WIGS, some of us (or should I say most) know what you mean. Maybe it is a high school graduating thing.

Another genius .........Tell you what , leave some of your DNA @ crime scene , see how fast you are contacted and questioned ..........

[mhgaffney]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Jones concedes that these "chips" melt at much lower temperatures than conventional thermite - he calls this mysterious substance "super-thermite".

That's why I call you an ignorant butthead.

You mean thermate. The addition of elemental sulfur to thermite gives thermate.

The presence of sulfur lowers the melting point of iron to 1700 degrees F.

This is undoubtedly why the metallic iron seen flowing out of WTC 2 on 9/11 was liquid -- though the color indicated the temp was only around 1800 degrees.

[Fedaykin]

All the ingredients existed in the towers (aluminum and rust) as well as the energy required to ignite it (the gravitational potential energy of the buildings).

This type of a reaction is nothing extraordinary; like many other materials, most metals will burn (oxidize). Rusting metal is the same process as burning, only it happens more slowly.

Here's a quick and dirty estimate of the amount of energy present in the towers:

Mass: ~500,000,000 kg (each)
Average Height: ~210m (total height = 417m)

gravitational potential energy (joules) = mass*height*g

= 500,000,000kg * 210m * 9.8m/s^2

= 1.029x10^12 Joules

So, how much high explosive is that equivalent to? One tonne of TNT (tTNT) is equal to 4.2x10^9 Joules. Thus:

tTNT(eq) = 1.029x10^12 J / 4.2x10^9 J

= 245 (=tons of TNT) = 0.245 kilotons

To put that in perspective, the smallest nuke in the US arsenal is ~0.3 kilotons and the largest conventional weapon (the MOAB) is a mere 0.011 kilotons.

All the "truthers" neglect to mention this when they say that the fires in the towers weren't enough to cause steel to melt and thermite to ignite. While it's true that the jet fuels and office contents weren't enough, the buildings themselves contained more than enough energy to melt steel and ignite thermite.

[watermock]

Abstract
We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.





Keywords: JScanning electron microscopy, X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy, Differential scanning calorimetry, DSC analysis, World Trade Center, WTC dust, 9/11, Iron-rich microspheres, Thermite, Super-thermite, Energetic nanocomposites, Nano-thermite

Affiliation: Department of Chemistry, University of Copenhagen, Copenhagen, DK-2100, Denmark.

......................

(These chips were originally dismissed as paint.)

[mhgaffney]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

All the ingredients existed in the towers (aluminum and rust) as well as the energy required to ignite it (the gravitational potential energy of the buildings).

This type of a reaction is nothing extraordinary; like many other materials, most metals will burn (oxidize). Rusting metal is the same process as burning, only it happens more slowly.

Here's a quick and dirty estimate of the amount of energy present in the towers:

Mass: ~500,000,000 kg (each)
Average Height: ~210m (total height = 417m)

gravitational potential energy (joules) = mass*height*g

= 500,000,000kg * 210m * 9.8m/s^2

= 1.029x10^12 Joules

So, how much high explosive is that equivalent to? One tonne of TNT (tTNT) is equal to 4.2x10^9 Joules. Thus:

tTNT(eq) = 1.029x10^12 J / 4.2x10^9 J

= 245 (=tons of TNT) = 0.245 kilotons

To put that in perspective, the smallest nuke in the US arsenal is ~0.3 kilotons and the largest conventional weapon (the MOAB) is a mere 0.011 kilotons.

All the "truthers" neglect to mention this when they say that the fires in the towers weren't enough to cause steel to melt and thermite to ignite. While it's true that the jet fuels and office contents weren't enough, the buildings themselves contained more than enough energy to melt steel and ignite thermite.

This poster must be on drugs.

In the real world -- steel and concrete do not burn. They are non combustibles. Rust is a different process. We are talking about an extremely rapid -- violent -- reaction. Unlike rust -- this reaction does not rely on the oxygen in the air. The oxygen is chemically bound in the explosive and is released when the thermite is ignited. The reactition will run just fine in anerobic conditions -- and even under water. No additional oxygen is needed.

Thermite / thermate are NOT a normal part of any high rise building. They are not building materials. Rather -- they are high temperature explosives.
They were not present in the WTC until someone planted them there.

Even if al Qaeda somehow could have gained access to the WTC to plant the charges -- which in itself is next ti impossible -- there is no way al Qaeda could have done it.

Thermate/thermite were developed at the Lawrence Livermore Lab right here in the good ol US of A. These are US made explosives. No way al Qaeda had them on 9/11.

Just like the anthrax used in the anthrax terrorist attacks in October 2001 was an American strain.

Time to connect the dots, Bronco fans.

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

This poster must be on drugs.

In the real world -- steel and concrete do not burn. They are non combustibles. Rust is a different process.

No, you're just a conspiracy nitwit that doesn't understand basic science concepts, like oxidization:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidation

burning wood = rapid oxidization of carbon with atmospheric oxygen
rusting iron = slow oxidization of iron with atmospheric oxygen
thermite = rapid oxidization of aluminum (or other metals) with a metal oxide.

A LOT of metals are combustible

http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/EHSRM/LAB/co...le_metals.html

A thermite reaction is the rapid oxidization of a combustible metal and a metal oxide. A thermite reaction is burning metal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

Another common example of a burning metal is potassium. Put it in water and it burns (it's rapidly oxidizing with the oxygen in the water).

The reactition will run just fine in anerobic conditions -- and even under water. No additional oxygen is needed.

The oxygen is provided by the oxygen in the IRON OXIDE Fe(2)O(3) (or other metal oxide).

Thermite / thermate are NOT a normal part of any high rise building. They are not building materials. Rather -- they are high temperature explosives.
They were not present in the WTC until someone planted them there.

Once again: thermite is nothing more than a combustible metal (e.g aluminum, magnesium, calcium, etc.) and a metal oxide (most commonly iron oxide, or rust). Both of these were present in the towers.

Even if al Qaeda somehow could have gained access to the WTC to plant the charges -- which in itself is next ti impossible -- there is no way al Qaeda could have done it.

No one but you is even saying thermite was planted (or that any was even found).

Thermate/thermite were developed at the Lawrence Livermore Lab right here in the good ol US of A. These are US made explosives. No way al Qaeda had them on 9/11.

Dude, you are a ****ing idiot. Anyone with access to aluminum and rusted iron (read: just about anyone) can make thermite. It's not hard. Look up thermite on YouTube and you'll find all kinds of people playing with the stuff.

Get a damn clue man, and some immediate psychological help.

[The Lone Bolt]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

No, you're just a conspiracy nitwit that doesn't understand basic science concepts, like oxidization:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidation

burning wood = rapid oxidization of carbon with atmospheric oxygen
rusting iron = slow oxidization of iron with atmospheric oxygen
thermite = rapid oxidization of aluminum (or other metals) with a metal oxide.

A LOT of metals are combustible

http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/EHSRM/LAB/co...le_metals.html

A thermite reaction is the rapid oxidization of a combustible metal and a metal oxide. A thermite reaction is burning metal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

Another common example of a burning metal is potassium. Put it in water and it burns (it's rapidly oxidizing with the oxygen in the water).



The oxygen is provided by the oxygen in the IRON OXIDE Fe(2)O(3) (or other metal oxide).



Once again: thermite is nothing more than a combustible metal (e.g aluminum, magnesium, calcium, etc.) and a metal oxide (most commonly iron oxide, or rust). Both of these were present in the towers.



No one but you is even saying thermite was planted (or that any was even found).



Dude, you are a ****ing idiot. Anyone with access to aluminum and rusted iron (read: just about anyone) can make thermite. It's not hard. Look up thermite on YouTube and you'll find all kinds of people playing with the stuff.

Get a damn clue man, and some immediate psychological help.

Once again a poster here illustrates why Gaff concentrates on shoveling his nonsense to laypersons and not to legitimate experts on the subjects of chemistry, physics, engineering, etc.

When he encounters such knowledgeable people his theories are quickly debunked.

Nice work!

[TDmvp]

Originally Posted by The Lone Bolt

Once again a poster here illustrates why Gaff concentrates on shoveling his nonsense to laypersons and not to legitimate experts on the subjects of chemistry, physics, engineering, etc.

When he encounters such knowledgeable people his theories are quickly debunked.

Nice work!

Totally ... One of my best friends works for Raytheon and i was cut and pasting him some of Gaff Bs one day when we happened to be talking about crazy truthers and he was like this gaff guy either is really bad with science , or just could care less about facts if it gets in the way of his BS ...

[watermock]

As for planting explosives and/or incendiaries it could have easily been done during off hours and having control of security. Don't forget that Marvin Bush and his cousin were involved with security for the towers for several years just prior to Sept. 11, 2001. The incendiaries could have even been applied by unwitting workers and only the fusing left to the conspirators. Did you know that the fireproofing was upgraded in just the areas where the planes impacted in the two years prior to Sept. 11, 2001? Did you know that the security company that Marvin Bush sat on the board of installed a new security system in the late 1990's? Did you know there was an elevator renovation program going on in the year prior to Sept. 11, 2001? Explosives could have easily been planted on core columns from the elevator shafts without being seen. It is also interesting that the designer of the elevator system, Otis Elevator, lost the maintenance contract, that they had had since the towers opened, to a little known elevator company called Ace Elevator in the late 1990's

[TDmvp]

It just makes me laugh that in this day and age where we can't keep anything from being leaked or being sold for money that people actually thinks if someone helped rig a building or something like that they wouldn't be cashing in ... and writing a book or something ...
But still not one of these people are coming out of the wood work..

It's just people envisioning / dreaming that these people actually exist and did these things cashing in ...

[watermock]

There Are Alot Of Things Hidden In Plain Sight.

[mhgaffney]

Leave it to a knee jerk to miss the point.

Yes some metals will burn. Back in 2007 I posted my research about depleted uranium shells -- which ignite when fired from an artillery barrel -- or from a gattling gun. DU is easily ignited and burns at extreme temperatures -- 4500 F.
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle18242.htm

But your statement above that "All the ingredients existed in the towers (aluminum and rust) as well as the energy required to ignite it (the gravitational potential energy of the buildings)"

is total garbage.

You also stated:
"Once again: thermite is nothing more than a combustible metal (e.g aluminum, magnesium, calcium, etc.) and a metal oxide (most commonly iron oxide, or rust). Both of these were present in the towers."

More garbage.

Thermite is considerably more than the haphazard combination of all of the above. Only a moron would claim as much.

The constituent ingredients only came together in the proper form and proportions because some very evil men conspired to destroy the WTC and blame it on foreign terrorists.

This was conspiracy of common interests. The WTC was a financial white elephant and a group of banksters wanted it taken down -- at public expense.

The neo cons wanted a new Pearl Harbor to launch their war policy.

The two groups came together in a common cause -- and clowns like you still don't get it.

MHG

[mhgaffney]

We have seen the same pattern repeated in recent months. The conspiracy is all about the transfer of wealth -- from the public sector into private hands

while also transferring debt in the reverse direction: from the private to the public sector.

This was what 9/11 was all about. The same people gave us the financial melt down -- and for the same reasons.

Obviously America is a nation of sheep -- easy pickings for the banksters and their criminal accomplices...

The clowns on this board will go to their graves clueless as babes...

[W*GS]

gaffney, you hate Jews and want us to buy your book.

So **** off.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by watermock

As for planting explosives and/or incendiaries it could have easily been done during off hours and having control of security. Don't forget that Marvin Bush and his cousin were involved with security for the towers for several years just prior to Sept. 11, 2001. The incendiaries could have even been applied by unwitting workers and only the fusing left to the conspirators. Did you know that the fireproofing was upgraded in just the areas where the planes impacted in the two years prior to Sept. 11, 2001? Did you know that the security company that Marvin Bush sat on the board of installed a new security system in the late 1990's? Did you know there was an elevator renovation program going on in the year prior to Sept. 11, 2001? Explosives could have easily been planted on core columns from the elevator shafts without being seen. It is also interesting that the designer of the elevator system, Otis Elevator, lost the maintenance contract, that they had had since the towers opened, to a little known elevator company called Ace Elevator in the late 1990's

Put down the crack pipe.

a-hole.

[watermock]

Go buy some more ammo so you can be traced.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Obviously America is a nation of sheep -- easy pickings for the banksters and their criminal accomplices...

The clowns on this board will go to their graves clueless as babes...

That really is the bottom line, isn't it?

These idiots have the audacity to lambaste so-called "conspiracy nuts" when they unconditionally swallow the findings of a committee that was hand-picked by Bush (whose administration had to be dragged kicking and screaming into ANY investigation into the 9/11 attacks) and overseen by a Bush crony who was a central figure in the planning of the Iraq invasion/occupation.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by Spider

Another genius .........Tell you what , leave some of your DNA @ crime scene , see how fast you are contacted and questioned ..........

and then released when they found out I lived there or a birthday party was there. Contacting and then releasing is a big difference than finding the DNA and running with a conviction. This is exactly what McGaffney has done from the beginning and then trying to find "evidence" to back up his theory. Slowly, Koresh followers get in line with these "facts".

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by watermock

There Are Alot Of Things Hidden In Plain Sight.

yes, like your brain.

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Leave it to a knee jerk to miss the point.

Yes some metals will burn. Back in 2007 I posted my research about depleted uranium shells -- which ignite when fired from an artillery barrel -- or from a gattling gun. DU is easily ignited and burns at extreme temperatures -- 4500 F.
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle18242.htm

But your statement above that "All the ingredients existed in the towers (aluminum and rust) as well as the energy required to ignite it (the gravitational potential energy of the buildings)"

is total garbage.

You also stated:
"Once again: thermite is nothing more than a combustible metal (e.g aluminum, magnesium, calcium, etc.) and a metal oxide (most commonly iron oxide, or rust). Both of these were present in the towers."

More garbage.

Thermite is considerably more than the haphazard combination of all of the above. Only a moron would claim as much.

The constituent ingredients only came together in the proper form and proportions because some very evil men conspired to destroy the WTC and blame it on foreign terrorists.

This was conspiracy of common interests. The WTC was a financial white elephant and a group of banksters wanted it taken down -- at public expense.

The neo cons wanted a new Pearl Harbor to launch their war policy.

The two groups came together in a common cause -- and clowns like you still don't get it.

MHG

A good Al Fe2O3 thermite consists of 2 to 1 in terms of AL to Iron oxide. The Al will be melted, which the burning jet fuel would have achieved (burns at about 1000, Al melts about 700) and the iron oxide can be in either powder form or pressed form, powder form seems most likely as a jet liner would have flown into the building and hurled up a lot of dust.

Two seperate Al Fe2O3 exothermic reactions happen at just about 1000 degrees, which is as mentioned above just about the temperature of burning jet fuel. The exothermic reaction causes a burn that reaches temperatures of about 2500 for moderate amounts of thermite compound.

[barryr]

Oh brother, more conspiracy crap. This isn't the 50's and 60's when the media was more worried about keeping government secrets than exposing them. To think this could be some kind of conspiracy and NOBODY having any kind of proof or not able to keep their mouth shut and tell someone in the media seems rather hard to believe in itself. And that doesn't take into account the science of it all that doesn't add up either.

[BroncoLifer]

The great thing about threads like these is that they clearly expose the massively stupid and gullible among us. This helps me put their Broncos-related posts into perspective.