The Silmarillion

[Taco John]

Well... I finally got it in the mail today through the book club The Seniorita registered us for... That, and "Unfinished Tales of Numenor and Middle-Earth," though I think I'll save that one for after I get through The Hobbit and the Rings trilogy... But I'm committed to finally getting these books under my belt...

I understand the Silmarillion is a teriffic story in itself. Looking forward to it.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Been awhile since I read The Silmarillion, but I liked it better than LoTR.

[Rock Chalk]

You think Sauron was a bad guy?

Wait till you meet Melkor (or Morgoth, depending on which language).

Silmarillion rocks. I dont know that I liked it better than LOTR but it is really close.

It covers the First Age and part of the Second Age if I remember correctly. I also think it covers the first war with Sauron. There is a TON of information from the beginning of Middle Earth to the third age.

You will come to understand a lot more about LOTR after you read the Silmarillion. Its more about Elves and the Numenoreans. High Elves. Good thing is there are still a few familiar names like Elrond and Galadriel and Cirdan but this is before the coming of the Istari (Wizards). Balrogs and the Great Spiders and Great Eagles are also more abundant.

Let us know what ya think after ya read it Taco.

[BlueDamsel]

Is this the mane's official book club?

[Taco John]

Well, so far, I've gathered that Melkor is essentially the metaphor for the devil... Just got through the first chapter...

[Old Dude]

I read this a long time ago.

That's about all I remember. Melkor was a really bad guy.

And later on there were lots of ... uph .... better not spoil it.

[alkemical]

you guys who read tolken, you guys read CS Lewis? They were buds and did alot of colaberation together

[Old Dude]

Nope, never got around to him.

[Rock Chalk]

CS Lewis, didnt he write the Chronicles of Narnia? I think I read the first three or so.

[alkemical]

yeah but he wrote a bunch of other stuff, like the screwtape letters and such -

[Rock Chalk]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Well, so far, I've gathered that Melkor is essentially the metaphor for the devil... Just got through the first chapter...

That first part about the gods was a bit ethereal to me. I kinda skipped past it. Melkor was very similar to Satan. Manwe would be very similar to Gabriel or Michael (probably Michael). Not really gods, but angels/demons. Sauron was but his lietenant.

Say, does anyone know the names of the other Istari not mentioned by name in LoTR? Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast were the only three names I ever heard but there were two others and of all the books related I have never been able to find their names. What the hell were these two wizards doing all this time?

[alkemical]

That's where CS Lewis comes in - you should check out the screwtape letters, it's not long and very interesting.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by AlecRaenos

That first part about the gods was a bit ethereal to me. I kinda skipped past it. Melkor was very similar to Satan. Manwe would be very similar to Gabriel or Michael (probably Michael). Not really gods, but angels/demons. Sauron was but his lietenant.

Pretty much... That's what I've gathered so far... Like you say, very ethereal. Kinda "Matrix-y" when you consider all of these "Valar" have functions that they provide... Much like the programs in the Matrix who are responsible for different functions... Parallells can certainly be drawn.

I like it so far... Looking forward to the plot...

[Rock Chalk]

I dont know if it's Matrix'y. Considering Tolkien's education I would say its more based on Greek/Roman mythology. Each "god" to their purpose.

I'm tellin ya TJ, that book gets REALLY good. He may not be the greatest writer and his dialogue is sometimes weak, but he has very good imagery and there are times where you could swear if you just closed your eyes you could picture what he is writing exactly as he pictured it.

[Pezman]

Didn't Tolkein (sp) die before this was finished? I could have sworn that someone ghost wrote the last few chapters... Am I mistaken?

[Rock Chalk]

Tolkien died before any of them were finished. He has went on record saying that the works he had done for Middle Earth were a living thing and always were being tweaked. Even LoTR.

His son has added a lot of notes and miscellaneous stuff to the Lost Tales and the Silmarilllion as well. Most of it is Tolkiens work and Chris's contribution was in line with his father's ideas.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by AlecRaenos

I dont know if it's Matrix'y. Considering Tolkien's education I would say its more based on Greek/Roman mythology. Each "god" to their purpose.

Actually, that's an underplayed aspect of the Matrix that many didn't pick up on. Each program inside the Matrix had their purpose. There is a lot of 'hidden' mythology in the Matrix...

[Rock Chalk]

I caught that part TJ but I didnt suspect it was a religious relation. Though i could be wrong there are a lot of things in that trilogy that were religious in nature.

[Bronco Yoda]

Originally Posted by AlecRaenos

Say, does anyone know the names of the other Istari not mentioned by name in LoTR? Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast were the only three names I ever heard but there were two others and of all the books related I have never been able to find their names. What the hell were these two wizards doing all this time?

These two mysterious Istari figures were known as the IthrrynLuin or- ‘Blue Wizards’. They arrived earlier in the Second Age (way before Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast). Their names were Alatar and Pallando or known as Morinehtar and Romestamo- Darkness slayer and East-helper.

They were emissaries to the lands in the East and south. Believed but never fully revealed to have failed their mission to circumvent Sauron. They were never seen or known in lands west of Mordor.

-Yoda

[Rock Chalk]

OK Yoda, which book is it in? I assumed they had went to the South where the Haradrim lived since they were not involved in the West and the East is only vaguely mentioned.

I searched through the Silmarillion and I think one of the Lost Tales books (though I forget which one) before finally giving up and assuming they are never mentioned by name.

[alkemical]

that's where tolken and CS lewis, and gnostic religous principles tie into the matrix alec & TJ -

I mean afterall - the destruction of zion? What is zion? Zion couldn't be jerusalum now could it?

and you talk about things have a purpose, ti's what angels and such have the heirachy of the world - it represents elementals, etc -

example, even though the egyptians believed in other gods, they still had one supreme god than ruled over all- the others were elements of the supreme god -

kinda how tolken and cs lewis wrote - which is where i mentioned the screwtape letters -

[Bronco Yoda]

Originally Posted by AlecRaenos

OK Yoda, which book is it in? I assumed they had went to the South where the Haradrim lived since they were not involved in the West and the East is only vaguely mentioned.

I searched through the Silmarillion and I think one of the Lost Tales books (though I forget which one) before finally giving up and assuming they are never mentioned by name.

I know some of this was mentioned in the Book -Unfinished Tales