Simultaneous Catch non-reviewable? - The Orange Mane

UboBronco · 09-14-2008, 06:58 PM

Watching the Sunday night game, Cris Collinsworth just stated that a simultaneous catch is NOT reviewable, so the call on the field would have had to be upheld anyway... I suppose this will not appease the Charger fans, but I was not aware of this part of the review process.

Don Flamenco · 09-14-2008, 07:02 PM

haha **** the chargers!

Garcia Bronco · 09-14-2008, 07:03 PM

I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant it was non-reveiwable and it goes to the offense. Which I don't have a problem with. I think that play was right and it was called right. The receiver never demonstrated possession and the bottom line is Champ took the effing ball away from.

lex · 09-14-2008, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UboBronco

Watching the Sunday night game, Cris Collinsworth just stated that a simultaneous catch is NOT reviewable, so the call on the field would have had to be upheld anyway... I suppose this will not appease the Charger fans, but I was not aware of this part of the review process.

I think Collinsworth got this wrong. If the play was initially called an INT, then there would have to be conclusive evidence that it was simultaneous possession. None of the replays I looked at provided that. The best angle I saw showed Chambers' elbow on the ground but you couldnt really see if Chambers had the ball and Champ didnt.

TheChamp24 · 09-14-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lex

I think Collinsworth got this wrong. If the play was initially called an INT, then there would have to be conclusive evidence that it was simultaneous possession. None of the replays I looked at provided that. The best angle I saw showed Chambers' elbow on the ground but you couldnt really see if Chambers had the ball and Champ didnt.

There was no way to overturn the call anyways IMO. You can't tell from what I saw if Chambers had possession when he went down.

Garcia Bronco · 09-14-2008, 07:20 PM

Chambers can just beat Bailey, that's all.

ScottXray · 09-14-2008, 07:25 PM

The commentators started this by saying the elbow was down , so it was a catch.
If you watch the whole play, Chambers was bobbling the ball after he first caught it, then secured it, but never made a move after that because he was already falling toward the ground. Champ also had his hands on the ball at that point. The camera angle did not show clearly who had the better grip on it, but Chambers never made a football move after securing the ball.
The REF on that side of the field clearly thought that Chambers did not have full possession when he hit the ground.

Also I thought the rule was that the ground Can cause an incompletion and that a reciever MUST make a football related move after securing the ball and not lose control of the ball THROUGH his contact with the ground. At best the pass might have been called incomplete if a review had been possible.

Also when Chambers caught his LAST TD over Paymah, it did not look like he ever had full control of the ball. It was sliding down his body on the left side and then it bounced over to his right hand. He sure SPIKED it fast if that was a catch! Not sure since they only showed a quick replay once and SD hustled on the field and put the kick up as fast as they could.

TheChamp24 · 09-14-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottXray

Also when Chambers caught his LAST TD over Paymah, it did not look like he ever had full control of the ball. It was sliding down his body on the left side and then it bounced over to his right hand. He sure SPIKED it fast if that was a catch! Not sure since they only showed a quick replay once and SD hustled on the field and put the kick up as fast as they could.

Paymah annoyed me today.
But that did look questionable, it looked like he kinda had possession, but then Paymah smacked it out as he crossed the goaline.

TheChamp24 · 09-14-2008, 07:44 PM

I want to add, it is hilarious reading the Charger fans pissing and moaning about this loss.
They think the Champ Bailey interception was as terrible a call as the fumble. I'm sorry, but watch the replays, there is no way of determining if Chambers really had possession when he went down.

summerdenver · 09-14-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottXray

At best the pass might have been called incomplete if a review had been possible.

Ball never hit the ground so it can't be an incompletion. It was easy to see why ref made the call - it was not clear whether chambers had control of the ball and touched the ground while in control of the ball.

wolf754life · 09-14-2008, 08:47 PM

cutler did fumble the ball

Taco John · 09-14-2008, 08:54 PM

He never secured the football, period. It wasn't a catch, even when his elbow was down - he didn't have control. It wasn't a catch until Roland had stripped it and established control.

It was an interception.

ScottXray · 09-14-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by summerdenver

Ball never hit the ground so it can't be an incompletion. It was easy to see why ref made the call - it was not clear whether chambers had control of the ball and touched the ground while in control of the ball.

No, I was speaking about the fact that Chambers failed to maintain possession, and he failed to make a move after actually gaining it.
Many "receptions" have been overtuned for the same thing. In this case Bailey ended up with the ball.
There was no substantial evidence to overturn the call on the field that he lost possession. Whether his elbow hit the ground or not was not the point,
although the broadcast crew wouldn't stop talking about it, but there was nothing to indicate he maintained it throughout the whole play.

And Wolf, YES, Cutler fumbled, but the rule is the whistle ends the play. That Hochuli blew it ( both the call that it was a pass and the whisltle) is not in question. The replay moved the ball back to the 10, but the whistle ended it before Sd gained possession.
Sucks for SD, good for Cutler and the Broncos.

Almost the same thing happened to us last year on a Paymah or Foxworth fumble return that should have gone for six. Inadvertant whistle stopped the play, but we ALREADY had possession of the ball when the whistle blew.

gyldenlove · 09-14-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottXray

The commentators started this by saying the elbow was down , so it was a catch.
If you watch the whole play, Chambers was bobbling the ball after he first caught it, then secured it, but never made a move after that because he was already falling toward the ground. Champ also had his hands on the ball at that point. The camera angle did not show clearly who had the better grip on it, but Chambers never made a football move after securing the ball.
The REF on that side of the field clearly thought that Chambers did not have full possession when he hit the ground.

Also I thought the rule was that the ground Can cause an incompletion and that a reciever MUST make a football related move after securing the ball and not lose control of the ball THROUGH his contact with the ground. At best the pass might have been called incomplete if a review had been possible.

Also when Chambers caught his LAST TD over Paymah, it did not look like he ever had full control of the ball. It was sliding down his body on the left side and then it bounced over to his right hand. He sure SPIKED it fast if that was a catch! Not sure since they only showed a quick replay once and SD hustled on the field and put the kick up as fast as they could.

Being tackled is considered a football move. I agree though, on the Champ Interception Chambers didn't have clear control of the football when his elbow was down and since the ball never touched the ground it was a live ball.

On the Last TD he looks like he has control when he is out of the end zone, then he bobbles it a bit and gains control before taking a step and losing the ball. That player never looked like he took 2 steps with the ball, got tackled or in any other way made a football move. That could have been an incomplete pass for sure, I think if it is not in the end zone that will be called back.

In todays aside from the usual missed holding penalties, illegal contacts and hands to the face stuff that never gets called right, they had a couple of really big screwups. The Chambers TD over Paymah was one and the fumble was another.

BroncoMan4ever · 09-14-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Chambers can just beat Bailey, that's all.

Dude, any receiver with a tiny bit of talent can beat Champ if the DL is giving the quarterback like 8 seconds to get rid of the ball.

Hell at one point i think I saw Rivers having a tea party looking for the open receiver while our D got absolutely no penetration

snowspot66 · 09-15-2008, 10:05 AM

All the camera angles I saw I never once saw anything conclusive that would turn it over. The ball was always hidden. Maybe there was a better angle but I can't imagine where from. CBS showed practically every camera they had on it and I never saw the ball. There's now way it would have been overturned. Sorry Mr. Cross. You're a douche.

dbfan21 · 09-15-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowspot66

All the camera angles I saw I never once saw anything conclusive that would turn it over. The ball was always hidden. Maybe there was a better angle but I can't imagine where from. CBS showed practically every camera they had on it and I never saw the ball. There's now way it would have been overturned. Sorry Mr. Cross. You're a douche.

He is such an arrogant POS. He made a judgement on that INT play as if he were hovering over the players. He had the same shot everyone else did and saw that Chambers' possession was inconclusive. All I know is that Champ wrestled the ball away from the (Randy Cross-proclaimed) great WR of all time. I could barely stand all of the Chambers nut-hugging that was taking place. How Cross keeps his job is beyond me.

Garcia Bronco · 09-15-2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever

Dude, any receiver with a tiny bit of talent can beat Champ if the DL is giving the quarterback like 8 seconds to get rid of the ball.

Hell at one point i think I saw Rivers having a tea party looking for the open receiver while our D got absolutely no penetration

Go back to 05/06 and our first game against Miami. He literally just has trouble with Chambers.

x123z · 09-15-2008, 11:56 AM

Champ intercepted the ball. End of story!

enjolras · 09-15-2008, 12:24 PM

There is no requirement for a "football move" anymore, that went away this year. It is now an 'element of time', which means that if you possess the ball at all its going to be a catch.

HOWEVER, when going to the ground (as in this case) you also have to maintain possession all the way to the ground now. You can't possess it, go to the ground, and lose the ball (even if it hits the ground).

The most likely 'correct' call would have been incomplete in this case.

400HZ · 09-15-2008, 12:33 PM

I don't see how a review should have even been neccessary. Blowing that call in the first place was an outrageous example of sheer officiating incompetence. 'Unbelievably ridiculous' is was they just termed it on NFL Live. Chris Chambers is usually a very soft-spoken guy, but he was PISSED after the game.

Bronx33 · 09-15-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400HZ

I don't see how a review should have even been neccessary. Blowing that call in the first place was an outrageous example of sheer officiating incompetence. 'Unbelievably ridiculous' is was they just termed it on NFL Live. Chris Chambers is usually a very soft-spoken guy, but he was PISSED after the game.

You and your team need to move on you have way bigger problems to deal with to save this season your team could potentially fold if norv doesn't handle this correctly. It also will show if the chargers have the moxy to over come stuff like this norv better just let this go and focus on next week becuse it's not a pushover team.

09-14-2008, 06:58 PM	#1
UboBronco Seasoned Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 354	Simultaneous Catch non-reviewable? Watching the Sunday night game, Cris Collinsworth just stated that a simultaneous catch is NOT reviewable, so the call on the field would have had to be upheld anyway... I suppose this will not appease the Charger fans, but I was not aware of this part of the review process.

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09-14-2008, 07:02 PM	#2
Don Flamenco Perennial Pro-bowler Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Jose, Cali Posts: 952	haha **** the chargers!

09-14-2008, 07:03 PM	#3
Garcia Bronco Hokie since 1993 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 46,001 Adopt-a-Bronco: Tom Jackson	I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant it was non-reveiwable and it goes to the offense. Which I don't have a problem with. I think that play was right and it was called right. The receiver never demonstrated possession and the bottom line is Champ took the effing ball away from.

09-14-2008, 07:20 PM	#6
Garcia Bronco Hokie since 1993 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 46,001 Adopt-a-Bronco: Tom Jackson	Chambers can just beat Bailey, that's all.

09-14-2008, 07:25 PM	#7
ScottXray Opinionated A**** Love Me some PANCAKES!** Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: PDX (Portland OR) Posts: 4,670 Adopt-a-Bronco: J. D. Walton	The commentators started this by saying the elbow was down , so it was a catch. If you watch the whole play, Chambers was bobbling the ball after he first caught it, then secured it, but never made a move after that because he was already falling toward the ground. Champ also had his hands on the ball at that point. The camera angle did not show clearly who had the better grip on it, but Chambers never made a football move after securing the ball. The REF on that side of the field clearly thought that Chambers did not have full possession when he hit the ground. Also I thought the rule was that the ground Can cause an incompletion and that a reciever MUST make a football related move after securing the ball and not lose control of the ball THROUGH his contact with the ground. At best the pass might have been called incomplete if a review had been possible. Also when Chambers caught his LAST TD over Paymah, it did not look like he ever had full control of the ball. It was sliding down his body on the left side and then it bounced over to his right hand. He sure SPIKED it fast if that was a catch! Not sure since they only showed a quick replay once and SD hustled on the field and put the kick up as fast as they could.

09-14-2008, 07:44 PM	#9
TheChamp24 DERP DERP DERP The Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Broncos Country Posts: 4,904	I want to add, it is hilarious reading the Charger fans pissing and moaning about this loss. They think the Champ Bailey interception was as terrible a call as the fumble. I'm sorry, but watch the replays, there is no way of determining if Chambers really had possession when he went down.

09-14-2008, 08:47 PM	#11
wolf754life Bleed Orange and Blue more scoring + more tackling = $$$ Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,777	cutler did fumble the ball

09-14-2008, 08:54 PM	#12
Taco John 24/7 Broncos In Elway I Trust Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 49,742 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Manning	He never secured the football, period. It wasn't a catch, even when his elbow was down - he didn't have control. It wasn't a catch until Roland had stripped it and established control. It was an interception.

09-15-2008, 10:05 AM	#16
snowspot66 Ring of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,643	All the camera angles I saw I never once saw anything conclusive that would turn it over. The ball was always hidden. Maybe there was a better angle but I can't imagine where from. CBS showed practically every camera they had on it and I never saw the ball. There's now way it would have been overturned. Sorry Mr. Cross. You're a douche.

09-15-2008, 11:56 AM	#19
x123z old Fan old fan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 254	Champ intercepted the ball. End of story!

09-15-2008, 12:24 PM	#20
enjolras Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,950	There is no requirement for a "football move" anymore, that went away this year. It is now an 'element of time', which means that if you possess the ball at all its going to be a catch. HOWEVER, when going to the ground (as in this case) you also have to maintain possession all the way to the ground now. You can't possess it, go to the ground, and lose the ball (even if it hits the ground). The most likely 'correct' call would have been incomplete in this case.

09-15-2008, 12:33 PM	#21
400HZ Ring of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,359 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ed Hochuli	I don't see how a review should have even been neccessary. Blowing that call in the first place was an outrageous example of sheer officiating incompetence. 'Unbelievably ridiculous' is was they just termed it on NFL Live. Chris Chambers is usually a very soft-spoken guy, but he was PISSED after the game.