Clady/Williams/Albert/Mendenhall/Stewart

[Broncoman13]

I know there has been a lot of back and forth over who we should pick or what position we should pick. I look at it as a win-win! If we go with a guy like Clady, we get potentially the best OT in the draft... which is saying something considering the depth and talent at the position this year. Chris Williams would offer us longevity at LT and he also has the potential to be a 10 year starter. Branden Albert is at worst a Hutchinson caliber OG. That means moving the ball in the redzone. His ceiling, an all-pro OT! Mendenhall is a similar runner to xxxxxxxxxxxxx, he has the ability to not only gain the tough yards between the tackles, but also break the home run. He catches the ball well and we all know how the Broncos like to split their RBs out wide to empty the backfield! That leaves Stewart. IMO he is the best RB in this draft. Unfortunately he has two things going against him. His injuries and his running style. I think he's going to be a steal for some team in the 15-25 range.

The point of all of this... what is the downside of picking any of these guys?

We go RB this year we'll have a top tier prospect that we've been missing since CP. As many have mentioned, the OT prospects in next year's draft are great as well. The staff seems content with Kuper or Harris at LT so this could very well be the direction we go.

If we go OT in the first round this year, we have that OT ready for next year. He likely wouldn't see a lot of time this year unless it was Branden Albert playing OG. So, if we do go OL, I hope it is Albert. You watch how the Seahawks moved the ball with Hutch and then how their running game dropped of when Hutch went to Minny, and then all of the sudden Chester Taylor is a mad man... and then AD (though he's a mad man by his lonesome!) and it's hard to argue that a dominant OG is not a difference maker.

Folks, RB or OL... this is a win/win for us! So long as we don't blow it by taking Rivers, reaching for Balmer, or going after any slugs... We'll be in good shape!


BTW, did anybody see the Darren McFadden interview last night on ESPiN? I feel bad for the guy b/c he was seemingly born into a lot of trouble and bad situations, but a team would have to be nuts to draft him in the top 10. Whether his fault or not, he is bound to have some problems b/c of the people he keeps close (brothers). Brothers in and out of gangs. Mother that's been hooked on drugs. What are the chances of him getting caught up in a situation with his family? I wish him the best b/c he's had to overcome a lot to get to where he is at... but he's not Patrick Willis in terms of getting himself out of bad situations and looking forward. This guy simply has too much risk surrounding him.

[Gcver2ver3]

Originally Posted by OSKIE!!!

I know there has been a lot of back and forth over who we should pick or what position we should pick. I look at it as a win-win! If we go with a guy like Clady, we get potentially the best OT in the draft... which is saying something considering the depth and talent at the position this year. Chris Williams would offer us longevity at LT and he also has the potential to be a 10 year starter. Branden Albert is at worst a Hutchinson caliber OG. That means moving the ball in the redzone. His ceiling, an all-pro OT! Mendenhall is a similar runner to xxxxxxxxxxxxx, he has the ability to not only gain the tough yards between the tackles, but also break the home run. He catches the ball well and we all know how the Broncos like to split their RBs out wide to empty the backfield! That leaves Stewart. IMO he is the best RB in this draft. Unfortunately he has two things going against him. His injuries and his running style. I think he's going to be a steal for some team in the 15-25 range.

The point of all of this... what is the downside of picking any of these guys?



We go RB this year we'll have a top tier prospect that we've been missing since CP. As many have mentioned, the OT prospects in next year's draft are great as well. The staff seems content with Kuper or Harris at LT so this could very well be the direction we go.

If we go OT in the first round this year, we have that OT ready for next year. He likely wouldn't see a lot of time this year unless it was Branden Albert playing OG. So, if we do go OL, I hope it is Albert. You watch how the Seahawks moved the ball with Hutch and then how their running game dropped of when Hutch went to Minny, and then all of the sudden Chester Taylor is a mad man... and then AD (though he's a mad man by his lonesome!) and it's hard to argue that a dominant OG is not a difference maker.

Folks, RB or OL... this is a win/win for us! So long as we don't blow it by taking Rivers, reaching for Balmer, or going after any slugs... We'll be in good shape!


BTW, did anybody see the Darren McFadden interview last night on ESPiN? I feel bad for the guy b/c he was seemingly born into a lot of trouble and bad situations, but a team would have to be nuts to draft him in the top 10. Whether his fault or not, he is bound to have some problems b/c of the people he keeps close (brothers). Brothers in and out of gangs. Mother that's been hooked on drugs. What are the chances of him getting caught up in a situation with his family? I wish him the best b/c he's had to overcome a lot to get to where he is at... but he's not Patrick Willis in terms of getting himself out of bad situations and looking forward. This guy simply has too much risk surrounding him.

very good take Oskie...

when i do my own personal mock draft, i end up having us choosing between the exact players you mentioned minus Albert...

I believe we will be choosing between Clady, Williams, Mendenhall, or Stewart...

Here is the order of them on my wish list...

1. Clady
2. Williams
3. Mendenhall
4. Stewart

Now if Albert is also available I would slot Albert at #3...but I'm a little nervous of him because I always get leery of players whose stock climbs fast right before the draft (aka Akili Smith)...

So as long as Shanny picks one of the above players, I'll be excited...

[montrose]

Good thread. The Broncos are in a position to take any number of players that could help the team. While it may be a win-win, most will be upset when one player is taken as they believe another would help more. There's a very distinct misunderstanding when it comes to "need". Drafting a "need" makes two implications: 1) You're drafting that player to solve a problem that season. 2) You're not drafting another position because it's not a "need".

In reality, NFL rosters change over every season so while OT and DT may look like you're biggest needs in 2008, that doesn't mean that CB or LB might be your biggest needs in 2009; this leads to the first implication that your drafting a player to solve a problem for that season. While the NFL has certainly changed to where rookies are expected to come in and contribute immediately, draft picks (specifically 1st rounders) should be selected with the thought of becoming long-term cornerstones of the franchise rather than immediate fill-ins to a less-talented position. For those reasons, 9 times out of 10 you're team is best off selecting the best player available at your spot regardless of need.

For example, if the clear-cut BPA at #12 we're a CB - the Broncos would be best intentioned to take him. Now you may say, "But Montrose, we're loaded at CB! Our biggest needs are OT and DT." This is true, however lets go back to our implications. #1) This player, while we hope will make an impact this year is in reality being selected to be a core player in 2010 and beyond. #2) While CB may not be a need in 2008, it's very likely that by 2010 or 2011 that some combo if not all three of Bly/Foxworth/Paymah could be gone and Bailey will be staring at the downside of his career with salary questions. Suddenly taking that player at a position that wasn't of "need" in 2008 is a great move.

Now I am in no way implying we take a CB, just using that as an example. If the Broncos take the BPA, be it an OT, RB, LB - it will benefit them greatly in the long run.

[Broncoman13]

Good points Montrose. I agree that a need in 09 may not be apparent right now. But you have to look at in terms of what can you do for me this year as well.

Stewart is a guy that can return kicks (quite well I might add) and get some rest for 09 and beyond.

Say Leodis drops to us at #12, you know he can return the ball! You know that he's a top tier CB. You know that Champ is going to ask for more money soon. You know the chances of keeping Foxworth are slim. And, many would argue that Dre Bly is not a good Corner. Tons of reasons to take him at 12. Me personally, I would wait and try to get a guy like Cason in the 2nd round... if he falls. He or Porter would be fine!

Anybody hear or see where Dexter Jackson is supposed to fall now? I doubt he makes it to the 4th round... but he's a guy I'd love to have!

[Kaylore]

I'd be completely ok with us taking a corner with our first pick if it was the best player available.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by OSKIE!!!

I know there has been a lot of back and forth over who we should pick or what position we should pick. I look at it as a win-win! If we go with a guy like Clady, we get potentially the best OT in the draft... which is saying something considering the depth and talent at the position this year. Chris Williams would offer us longevity at LT and he also has the potential to be a 10 year starter. Branden Albert is at worst a Hutchinson caliber OG. That means moving the ball in the redzone. His ceiling, an all-pro OT! Mendenhall is a similar runner to xxxxxxxxxxxxx, he has the ability to not only gain the tough yards between the tackles, but also break the home run. He catches the ball well and we all know how the Broncos like to split their RBs out wide to empty the backfield! That leaves Stewart. IMO he is the best RB in this draft. Unfortunately he has two things going against him. His injuries and his running style. I think he's going to be a steal for some team in the 15-25 range.

The point of all of this... what is the downside of picking any of these guys?

We go RB this year we'll have a top tier prospect that we've been missing since CP. As many have mentioned, the OT prospects in next year's draft are great as well. The staff seems content with Kuper or Harris at LT so this could very well be the direction we go.

If we go OT in the first round this year, we have that OT ready for next year. He likely wouldn't see a lot of time this year unless it was Branden Albert playing OG. So, if we do go OL, I hope it is Albert. You watch how the Seahawks moved the ball with Hutch and then how their running game dropped of when Hutch went to Minny, and then all of the sudden Chester Taylor is a mad man... and then AD (though he's a mad man by his lonesome!) and it's hard to argue that a dominant OG is not a difference maker.

Folks, RB or OL... this is a win/win for us! So long as we don't blow it by taking Rivers, reaching for Balmer, or going after any slugs... We'll be in good shape!


BTW, did anybody see the Darren McFadden interview last night on ESPiN? I feel bad for the guy b/c he was seemingly born into a lot of trouble and bad situations, but a team would have to be nuts to draft him in the top 10. Whether his fault or not, he is bound to have some problems b/c of the people he keeps close (brothers). Brothers in and out of gangs. Mother that's been hooked on drugs. What are the chances of him getting caught up in a situation with his family? I wish him the best b/c he's had to overcome a lot to get to where he is at... but he's not Patrick Willis in terms of getting himself out of bad situations and looking forward. This guy simply has too much risk surrounding him.

Great post. I'm going to call it now. Mendenhall will be the 1st RB selected and McFadden will fall. He might not fall to Denver however. Stewart would be the perfect Shanny pick. His stock has fallen because of injury but Shanny sees the diamond that he is. I would be fine with a T or a RB being selected with #12. That is where the value is.

[kmonty]

I'd be ecstatic with Clady, happy with Williams, ok with Mendenhall, hesitant with Stewart, and plain pissed with Albert.

[BowlenBall]

Enough of this crazy Mendenhall / Stewart / McFadden talk!

1. The average offensive lineman plays 3-4 years longer in the NFL than the average RB. Ergo, quality offensive linemen are more valuable to a team than quality running backs due to the longevity factor.

2. Mike Shanahan (and Bobby Turner) have consistently found excellent running backs in the later rounds.

3. This draft in deep, deep, deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep at running back -- exceptionally, amazingly so. Ray Rice can be had in the 2nd/3rd round (for example). Why pay a premium when you can get something comparable cheaper?

4. Mike Shanahan has never picked a RB in the first round -- remember him passing up Steven Jackson a few years ago?

Add it all up, and... there's no way in hell that we're taking a running back at #12. 'Nuff said.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by kmonty

I'd be ecstatic with Clady, happy with Williams, ok with Mendenhall, hesitant with Stewart, and plain pissed with Albert.

Albert is my favorite of the group. Clady or Williams I'd be ok with. I wouldn't be thrilled with renting a running back for four years, but maybe we could make him look awesome enough that we trade him for a good player after two years.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

I'd be completely ok with us taking a corner with our first pick if it was the best player available.

I'd still rather not. I think we really need to continue to strengthen our lines on either side of the ball. That's where games are won, plain and simple, and both of our lines could use more talent. if our D-line is good, our corners become better. If we can't rush the passer like last year, then it doesnt matter who is playing corner. On the flip side, if we cant protect Jay, then it doesnt matter who he's throwing to. We won super bowls with good lines and mediocre corners.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by ExpatFan

Enough of this crazy Mendenhall / Stewart / McFadden talk!

1. The average offensive lineman plays 3-4 years longer in the NFL than the average RB. Ergo, quality offensive linemen are more valuable to a team than quality running backs due to the longevity factor.

And have a third the impact during that longevity!

2. Mike Shanahan (and Bobby Turner) have consistently found excellent running backs in the later rounds.

replace running back with linemen and you have an even greater truth
3. This draft in deep, deep, deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep at running back -- exceptionally, amazingly so. Ray Rice can be had in the 2nd/3rd round (for example). Why pay a premium when you can get something comparable cheaper?

what else is this draft deep in? rhymes with hymen... (hint: linemen)

4. Mike Shanahan has never picked a RB in the first round -- remember him passing up Steven Jackson a few years ago?

...but he was going to take Maroney, and Foster was the only first round lineman, and the results of that experiment are counterproductive to your argument

Add it all up, and... there's no way in hell that we're taking a running back at #12. 'Nuff said.

All in all, ****ty post. 'Nuff said.

[Gcver2ver3]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

All in all, ****ty post. 'Nuff said.

........ ....

[Broncoman13]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

All in all, ****ty post. 'Nuff said.

That's seriously Foneco'd... funny tho!

[Mediator12]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

All in all, ****ty post. 'Nuff said.

1. You are severely overrating RB's value and underestimating the OL value. OL have to make a play every down run or pass, RB's see the ball less than half the snaps and rotate much more in the Now.

2. While DEN has been successful in the past with lesser OL, the Alex Gibbs system has not flourished the last 3 years and the passing protection has been so Bad they regularly are keeping TE's in to protect in a WCO. The Pass protection skills of a legit LT are needed badly for Cutler to take the 5 step drops Shanahan wants to do more often.

3. OT is only deep at the top and 5-6 will be gone in round one. RB is deep into the fourth round.

4. I think using the past as a blueprint for the future when looking at draft picks is counterproductive. Draft depth, selection order, needs, and schemes change yearly. Each draft has to have its own plan. That being said, OL and RB are legitimate targets at 12. IMHO, OL is harder and longer to fill need than RB for DEN.

[Broncoman13]

Sure come in and make sense Med! Let me ask this question though. Would it make more sense to draft a Clady/Williams or a Branden Albert. Again, Albert has the ability of a Hutch... which as we've seen lately is a big money player (Faneca $$$).

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

1. You are severely overrating RB's value and underestimating the OL value. OL have to make a play every down run or pass, RB's see the ball less than half the snaps and rotate much more in the Now.

2. While DEN has been successful in the past with lesser OL, the Alex Gibbs system has not flourished the last 3 years and the passing protection has been so Bad they regularly are keeping TE's in to protect in a WCO. The Pass protection skills of a legit LT are needed badly for Cutler to take the 5 step drops Shanahan wants to do more often.

3. OT is only deep at the top and 5-6 will be gone in round one. RB is deep into the fourth round.

4. I think using the past as a blueprint for the future when looking at draft picks is counterproductive. Draft depth, selection order, needs, and schemes change yearly. Each draft has to have its own plan. That being said, OL and RB are legitimate targets at 12. IMHO, OL is harder and longer to fill need than RB for DEN.

First: Thank you for replying.

1. Your point is taken, but how accurate is it? Let's take a look at what happens when a RB is taken high and the OL stays the same:

Minnesota Vikings
2006: 1820 rushing yards, 4.1 ypc
2007 (with Peterson): 2634 rushing yards, 5.3 ypc

Also counter productive to your argument is that in 2007 their starting right guard went down due to injury AND even more importantly, teams were able to key on the running game all day thanks to an inept passer in 07.

2. Actually the system has flourished so much that it's undergone it's most extensive copying in the past three years (Houston, Green Bay, Oakland within 3 years and Atlanta on the cusp).

Med, you're a defensive guy. What would your goal be if you were gameplanning a young QB? Would you try to pressure him a little more...? (see where I'm going with this one...?)

I'm not making excuses for any subpar O-line play, but another year in the system for Cutler, Kuper, Harris and Pears, along with the return of Hamilton and Nalen along with day 2 depth is the cure people are looking for.

3. I love draft experts and how "deep" a pool of ___ (insert position) is. For every Joe Thomas/Walter Jones/Orlando Pace there's a Mike Williams/Robert Gallery/Leonard Davis and even substandard D-Brick.

LT's rely entirely too much on a gifted LG that rolls to them every ****ing play. Think it's any wonder that Lepsis' play suffers dramatically without Ben Hamilton covering his inside so the oaf only has to worry about washing a DE outside. Go back and watch where he's getting dominated.

4. I completely agree with this point, but as usual, I de-emphasize the need for OL. That being said, I also don't think there's a true need at RB. I, personally, want a trade down for Connor. Picking Mayo would allow me to not break my TV, but we'll see. If a Mendenhall is the most valuable game-breaking player on the board at twelve, then I fully support taking him because a player of high caliber is going to improve the running game, and in doing so the passing game, and in doing so the protection, and in doing so defensive field position, etc.

[NFLBRONCO]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

1. You are severely overrating RB's value and underestimating the OL value. OL have to make a play every down run or pass, RB's see the ball less than half the snaps and rotate much more in the Now.

2. While DEN has been successful in the past with lesser OL, the Alex Gibbs system has not flourished the last 3 years and the passing protection has been so Bad they regularly are keeping TE's in to protect in a WCO. The Pass protection skills of a legit LT are needed badly for Cutler to take the 5 step drops Shanahan wants to do more often.

3. OT is only deep at the top and 5-6 will be gone in round one. RB is deep into the fourth round.

4. I think using the past as a blueprint for the future when looking at draft picks is counterproductive. Draft depth, selection order, needs, and schemes change yearly. Each draft has to have its own plan. That being said, OL and RB are legitimate targets at 12. IMHO, OL is harder and longer to fill need than RB for DEN.

Great post Med

I think Denver needs to put higher priority (meaning day 1 picks) on DT OT RB WR positions when it comes to drafting.

[RocBronc]

If 4 out of those 5 are available when we pick, trade down 4 spots, pick up a 3rd round pick and then take the one you like best that is left... You'd at least be guaranteed one of them.

[lex]

Originally Posted by RocBronc

If 4 out of those 5 are available when we pick, trade down 4 spots, pick up a 3rd round pick and then take the one you like best that is left... You'd at least be guaranteed one of them.

Yeah, all you need is the right charm/amulet to conjure the Trade Down Fairy.

BTW, I just wanted to point out that everything said about getting quality RBs without drafting one high, can also be said about WR and OL for us. We could also draft a RB at 12 and OL in the 2nd or 4th. After seeing Kupers numbers in agility areas, Im not only convinced he can play LT, but Im practically convinced he should play LT. I wouldnt be surprised if the FO feels the same way. And to draft a OG or a RT, you can get one of those a little later.

[RocBronc]

Originally Posted by lex

Yeah, all you need is the right charm/amulet to conjure the Trade Down Fairy.

And to draft a OG or a RT, you can get one of those a little later.

All you need is the right charm/amulet to conjure up the Late round OL fairy.

[lex]

Originally Posted by RocBronc

All you need is the right charm/amulet to conjure up the Late round OL fairy.

I was talking more like 2nd or 4th for OL. And, btw, get your own material.

[mhgaffney]

A stud OT who buys Cutler an extra 1-2 seconds on every play to find the open receiver -- would be worth his weight in gold to this team --

Do we have that guy, right now?

[stugotsII]

I am against spending a first rounder on an offensive lineman. Way too expensive for a guy that isn't going to do anything for 2-3 years. RB's on the otherhand have proven to be able to help a team much sooner.

[montrose]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

A stud OT who buys Cutler an extra 1-2 seconds on every play to find the open receiver -- would be worth his weight in gold to this team --

Do we have that guy, right now?

[sarcasm]Yes, and his name is Erik Pears[/sarcasm]

[stugotsII]

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

A stud OT who buys Cutler an extra 1-2 seconds on every play to find the open receiver -- would be worth his weight in gold to this team --

Do we have that guy, right now?

Clady and Williams aren't those guys either.