Obama's church

[yavoon]

its a little bit of ****diggin but its pretty interesting atleast to me. here are the "12 precepts and covenantal statements." if this has already been pointed out then sorries.

1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the Black Community
3. Commitment to the Black Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
7. Commitment to self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.

I especially like #11.

[Bronco Jamus]

That's as racist as it gets.

[BABronco]

Originally Posted by Bronco Jamus

That's as racist as it gets.

But they are black ... everyone knows it okay to say racist stuff if your black

[shakenbake]

I wonder if Obama took the pledge ?

[shakenbake]

Actually, you know what. Just because he went there for 20 years, got married there, and baptized his children there doesn't mean he believes in these things. It is just his church, give the man a break. Just embrace the hope and get on the train

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by Bronco Jamus

That's as racist as it gets.

No it's not.

It only seems that way to you since you're probably unfamiliar with the historical role of the church in the black community. Blacks were excluded from white congregations so they formed their own. The social gospel and "liberation theology" espoused by ministers like Jeremiah Wright are at the opposite end of the theological spectrum from the so called religious right...a coalition of conservative Catholics, white fundamentalists bent on political power and some white evangelicals. The RR has focused on advancing it's agenda nationally through political pressure and registering its voters, while the black church has focused on political participation but also on direct social involvement, which is something the religious right has not done. The black church has been the epicenter and staging platform for every civil rights movement since Lincoln freed the slaaves, and there is nothing wrong with black people utilizing the resources of their churches to work for making beneficial changes in their communities.

It's part of the unfortunate legacy of the Christian church in America that we remain overwhelmingly segregated on Sundays, and part of the reason for that is the failure of white evangelicals to grasp the fact that issues of racial inequities in this country are in fact...MORAL in nature...and thus deserving the same attention as other issues of morality that impact society.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

No it's not.

It only seems that way to you since you're probably unfamiliar with the historical role of the church in the black community. Blacks were excluded from white congregations so they formed their own. The social gospel and "liberation theology" espoused by ministers like Jeremiah Wright are at the opposite end of the theological spectrum from the so called religious right...a coalition of conservative Catholics, white fundamentalists bent on political power and some white evangelicals. The RR has focused on advancing it's agenda nationally through political pressure and registering its voters, while the black church has focused on political participation but also on direct social involvement, which is something the religious right has not done. The black church has been the epicenter and staging platform for every civil rights movement since Lincoln freed the slaaves, and there is nothing wrong with black people utilizing the resources of their churches to work for making beneficial changes in their communities.

It's part of the unfortunate legacy of the Christian church in America that we remain overwhelmingly segregated on Sundays, and part of the reason for that is the failure of white evangelicals to grasp the fact that issues of racial inequities in this country are in fact...MORAL in nature...and thus deserving the same attention as other issues of morality that impact society.

Educating these right-wing mouth breathers is a full-time job, eh?

[Rigs11]

You knucleheads failed to say anything about Mccain's spiritual adviser..You're excused yavoon since we all know that you are an islam hating christian.Oh and he hates the gays too so that should be right up your alley.

McCain's Spiritual Guide: Destroy Islam


Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.

On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati with the Reverend Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus, a supersize Pentecostal institution that features a 5,200-seat sanctuary, a television studio (where Parsley tapes a weekly show), and a 122,000-square-foot Ministry Activity Center. That day, a week before the Ohio primary, Parsley praised the Republican presidential front-runner as a "strong, true, consistent conservative." The endorsement was important for McCain, who at the time was trying to put an end to the lingering challenge from former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, a favorite among Christian evangelicals. A politically influential figure in Ohio, Parsley could also play a key role in McCain's effort to win this bellwether state in the general election. McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister a "spiritual guide."

The leader of a 12,000-member congregation, Parsley has written several books outlining his fundamentalist religious outlook, including the 2005 Silent No More. In this work, Parsley decries the "spiritual desperation" of the United States, and he blasts away at the usual suspects: activist judges, civil libertarians who advocate the separation of church and state, the homosexual "culture" ("homosexuals are anything but happy and carefree"), the "abortion industry," and the crass and profane entertainment industry. And Parsley targets another profound threat to the United States: the religion of Islam.

In a chapter titled "Islam: The Deception of Allah," Parsley warns there is a "war between Islam and Christian civilization." He continues:

I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore.

Parsley is not shy about his desire to obliterate Islam. In Silent No More, he notes—approvingly—that Christopher Columbus shared the same goal: "It was to defeat Islam, among other dreams, that Christopher Columbus sailed to the New World in 1492…Columbus dreamed of defeating the armies of Islam with the armies of Europe made mighty by the wealth of the New World. It was this dream that, in part, began America." He urges his readers to realize that a confrontation between Christianity and Islam is unavoidable: "We find now we have no choice. The time has come." And he has bad news: "We may already be losing the battle. As I scan the world, I find that Islam is responsible for more pain, more bloodshed, and more devastation than nearly any other force on earth at this moment."

Parsley claims that Islam is an "anti-Christ religion" predicated on "deception." The Muslim prophet Muhammad, he writes, "received revelations from demons and not from the true God." And he emphasizes this point: "Allah was a demon spirit." Parsley does not differentiate between violent Islamic extremists and other followers of the religion:

There are some, of course, who will say that the violence I cite is the exception and not the rule. I beg to differ. I will counter, respectfully, that what some call "extremists" are instead mainstream believers who are drawing from the well at the very heart of Islam.

The spirit of Islam, he maintains, is one of hostility. He asserts that the religion "inspired" the 9/11 attacks. He bemoans the fact that in the years after 9/11, 34,000 Americans "have become Muslim" and that there are "some 1,209 mosques" in America. Islam, he declares, is a "faith that fully intends to conquer the world" through violence. The United States, he insists, "has historically understood herself as a bastion against Islam," but "history is crashing in upon us."

At the end of his chapter on Islam, Parsley asks, "Are we a Christian nation? I say yes." Without specifying what actions should be taken to eradicate the religion, he essentially calls for a new crusade.

Parsley, who refers to himself as a "Christocrat," is no stranger to controversy. In 2007, the grassroots organization he founded, the Center for Moral Clarity, called for prosecuting people who commit adultery. In January, he compared Planned Parenthood to Nazis. In the past Parsley's church has been accused of engaging in pro-Republican partisan activities in violation of its tax-exempt status.

Why would McCain court Parsley? He has long had trouble figuring out how to deal with Christian fundamentalists, an important bloc for the Republican Party. During his 2000 presidential bid, he referred to Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell as "agents of intolerance." But six years later, as he readied himself for another White House run, McCain repudiated that remark. More recently, his campaign hit a rough patch when he accepted the endorsement of the Reverend John Hagee, a Texas televangelist who has called the Catholic Church "the great whore" and a "false cult system." After the Catholic League protested and called on McCain to renounce Hagee's support, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee praised Hagee's spiritual leadership and support of Israel and said that "when [Hagee] endorses me, it does not mean that I embrace everything that he stands for or believes in." After being further criticized for his Hagee connection, McCain backed off slightly, saying, "I repudiate any comments that are made, including Pastor Hagee's, if they are anti-Catholic or offensive to Catholics." But McCain did not renounce Hagee's endorsement.

McCain's relationship with Parsley is politically significant. In 2004, Parsley's church was credited with driving Christian fundamentalist voters to the polls for George W. Bush. With Ohio expected to again be a decisive state in the presidential contest, Parsley's World Harvest Church and an affiliated entity called Reformation Ohio, which registers voters, could be important players within this battleground state. Considering that the Ohio Republican Party has been decimated by various political scandals and that a popular Democrat, Ted Strickland, is now the state's governor, McCain and the Republicans will need all the help they can get in the Buckeye State this fall. It's a real question: Can McCain win the presidency without Parsley?

The McCain campaign did not respond to a request for comment regarding Parsley and his anti-Islam writings. Parsley did not return a call seeking comment.

"The last thing I want to be is another screaming voice moving people to extremes and provoking them to folly in the name of patriotism," Parsley writes in Silent No More. Provoking people to holy war is another matter. About that, McCain so far is silent.

David Corn is Mother Jones' Washington, D.C. bureau chief.

http://www.motherjones.com/washingto...ual-guide.html

[Rigs11]

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

You knucleheads failed to say anything about Mccain's spiritual adviser..You're excused yavoon since we all know that you are an islam hating christian.Oh and he hates the gays too so that should be right up your alley.

McCain's Spiritual Guide: Destroy Islam


Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.

On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati with the Reverend Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus, a supersize Pentecostal institution that features a 5,200-seat sanctuary, a television studio (where Parsley tapes a weekly show), and a 122,000-square-foot Ministry Activity Center. That day, a week before the Ohio primary, Parsley praised the Republican presidential front-runner as a "strong, true, consistent conservative." The endorsement was important for McCain, who at the time was trying to put an end to the lingering challenge from former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, a favorite among Christian evangelicals. A politically influential figure in Ohio, Parsley could also play a key role in McCain's effort to win this bellwether state in the general election. McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister a "spiritual guide."

The leader of a 12,000-member congregation, Parsley has written several books outlining his fundamentalist religious outlook, including the 2005 Silent No More. In this work, Parsley decries the "spiritual desperation" of the United States, and he blasts away at the usual suspects: activist judges, civil libertarians who advocate the separation of church and state, the homosexual "culture" ("homosexuals are anything but happy and carefree"), the "abortion industry," and the crass and profane entertainment industry. And Parsley targets another profound threat to the United States: the religion of Islam.

In a chapter titled "Islam: The Deception of Allah," Parsley warns there is a "war between Islam and Christian civilization." He continues:

I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore.

Parsley is not shy about his desire to obliterate Islam. In Silent No More, he notes—approvingly—that Christopher Columbus shared the same goal: "It was to defeat Islam, among other dreams, that Christopher Columbus sailed to the New World in 1492…Columbus dreamed of defeating the armies of Islam with the armies of Europe made mighty by the wealth of the New World. It was this dream that, in part, began America." He urges his readers to realize that a confrontation between Christianity and Islam is unavoidable: "We find now we have no choice. The time has come." And he has bad news: "We may already be losing the battle. As I scan the world, I find that Islam is responsible for more pain, more bloodshed, and more devastation than nearly any other force on earth at this moment."

Parsley claims that Islam is an "anti-Christ religion" predicated on "deception." The Muslim prophet Muhammad, he writes, "received revelations from demons and not from the true God." And he emphasizes this point: "Allah was a demon spirit." Parsley does not differentiate between violent Islamic extremists and other followers of the religion:

There are some, of course, who will say that the violence I cite is the exception and not the rule. I beg to differ. I will counter, respectfully, that what some call "extremists" are instead mainstream believers who are drawing from the well at the very heart of Islam.

The spirit of Islam, he maintains, is one of hostility. He asserts that the religion "inspired" the 9/11 attacks. He bemoans the fact that in the years after 9/11, 34,000 Americans "have become Muslim" and that there are "some 1,209 mosques" in America. Islam, he declares, is a "faith that fully intends to conquer the world" through violence. The United States, he insists, "has historically understood herself as a bastion against Islam," but "history is crashing in upon us."

At the end of his chapter on Islam, Parsley asks, "Are we a Christian nation? I say yes." Without specifying what actions should be taken to eradicate the religion, he essentially calls for a new crusade.

Parsley, who refers to himself as a "Christocrat," is no stranger to controversy. In 2007, the grassroots organization he founded, the Center for Moral Clarity, called for prosecuting people who commit adultery. In January, he compared Planned Parenthood to Nazis. In the past Parsley's church has been accused of engaging in pro-Republican partisan activities in violation of its tax-exempt status.

Why would McCain court Parsley? He has long had trouble figuring out how to deal with Christian fundamentalists, an important bloc for the Republican Party. During his 2000 presidential bid, he referred to Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell as "agents of intolerance." But six years later, as he readied himself for another White House run, McCain repudiated that remark. More recently, his campaign hit a rough patch when he accepted the endorsement of the Reverend John Hagee, a Texas televangelist who has called the Catholic Church "the great whore" and a "false cult system." After the Catholic League protested and called on McCain to renounce Hagee's support, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee praised Hagee's spiritual leadership and support of Israel and said that "when [Hagee] endorses me, it does not mean that I embrace everything that he stands for or believes in." After being further criticized for his Hagee connection, McCain backed off slightly, saying, "I repudiate any comments that are made, including Pastor Hagee's, if they are anti-Catholic or offensive to Catholics." But McCain did not renounce Hagee's endorsement.

McCain's relationship with Parsley is politically significant. In 2004, Parsley's church was credited with driving Christian fundamentalist voters to the polls for George W. Bush. With Ohio expected to again be a decisive state in the presidential contest, Parsley's World Harvest Church and an affiliated entity called Reformation Ohio, which registers voters, could be important players within this battleground state. Considering that the Ohio Republican Party has been decimated by various political scandals and that a popular Democrat, Ted Strickland, is now the state's governor, McCain and the Republicans will need all the help they can get in the Buckeye State this fall. It's a real question: Can McCain win the presidency without Parsley?

The McCain campaign did not respond to a request for comment regarding Parsley and his anti-Islam writings. Parsley did not return a call seeking comment.

"The last thing I want to be is another screaming voice moving people to extremes and provoking them to folly in the name of patriotism," Parsley writes in Silent No More. Provoking people to holy war is another matter. About that, McCain so far is silent.

David Corn is Mother Jones' Washington, D.C. bureau chief.

http://www.motherjones.com/washingto...ual-guide.html

I'm not christian you useless retard, not that I ever expect you to say anything resembling the truth. this does bring up a very interesting political scenario tho, so many ppl on the left take so much glee in attacking religion. so whats the plan?

attack hagee and attempt to make an equivalence with wright? I'm not sure that'd work as mccain doesn't attend hagee's church much less have attended it for 2 decades, been his father figure, his uncle, married him and baptized his children, inspired his book and possibly his entire presidential campaign. though you all are probably going to try.

which leads to #2, lets say you take down the evil hagee, I gotta imagine in most ppl's minds that'd firebombing wright too. there is going to be some pretzel twisting going on thats for sure.

[shakenbake]

You should make a thread about it Riggs. I know my reading isn't at your superior level but I am pretty sure this thread was about Obama's church.

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

No it's not.

It only seems that way to you since you're probably unfamiliar with the historical role of the church in the black community. Blacks were excluded from white congregations so they formed their own. The social gospel and "liberation theology" espoused by ministers like Jeremiah Wright are at the opposite end of the theological spectrum from the so called religious right...a coalition of conservative Catholics, white fundamentalists bent on political power and some white evangelicals. The RR has focused on advancing it's agenda nationally through political pressure and registering its voters, while the black church has focused on political participation but also on direct social involvement, which is something the religious right has not done. The black church has been the epicenter and staging platform for every civil rights movement since Lincoln freed the slaaves, and there is nothing wrong with black people utilizing the resources of their churches to work for making beneficial changes in their communities.

It's part of the unfortunate legacy of the Christian church in America that we remain overwhelmingly segregated on Sundays, and part of the reason for that is the failure of white evangelicals to grasp the fact that issues of racial inequities in this country are in fact...MORAL in nature...and thus deserving the same attention as other issues of morality that impact society.

I agree with footsteps bronco jamus. you are the racist. that some of our presidential candidates happen to attend churches that demand political allegiance based on the color of one's skin is irrelevant. you are the racist. internalize it. you are the racist.

you are the racist.

[Rigs11]

Originally Posted by shakenbake

You should make a thread about it Riggs. I know my reading isn't at your superior level but I am pretty sure this thread was about Obama's church.

We already have a thread on it, here let me use my superior skills and point you to it since you're kinda slow. http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=67204

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Educating these right-wing mouth breathers is a full-time job, eh?

We've had a few interesting discussions on this topic as well. I think the focus on religion right now is an attempt to distract from the two issues this election should be decided on, the war and the economy. Both should favor the DEMS so it's obvious that focusing on this Wright issue serves two purposes, distraction and division, the latter designed to sew seeds of racial conflict and disturb white voters who might otherwise vote for Obama.

[Rigs11]

Originally Posted by yavoon

I'm not christian you useless retard, not that I ever expect you to say anything resembling the truth. this does bring up a very interesting political scenario tho, so many ppl on the left take so much glee in attacking religion. so whats the plan?

attack hagee and attempt to make an equivalence with wright? I'm not sure that'd work as mccain doesn't attend hagee's church much less have attended it for 2 decades, been his father figure, his uncle, married him and baptized his children, inspired his book and possibly his entire presidential campaign. though you all are probably going to try.

which leads to #2, lets say you take down the evil hagee, I gotta imagine in most ppl's minds that'd firebombing wright too. there is going to be some pretzel twisting going on thats for sure.

Oh that's rich. You're the biggest poster of anti islam bs around here. At least man up and admit it.Mccain said that he was his spiritual adviser, what more do you want?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3548250.ece

[shakenbake]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

We already have a thread on it, here let me use my superior skills and point you to it since you're kinda slow. http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=67204

I think the topic is a little different. But hey I am slow so what do I know

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

Oh that's rich. You're the biggest poster of anti islam bs around here. At least man up and admit it.Mccain said that he was his spiritual adviser, what more do you want?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3548250.ece

I am anti-islam, anti-sharia, anti-koran, I believe in women's rights, I believe in gay marriage and I believe in liberty. I believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion both of which are fundamentally opposed by the ideology of islam. it doesn't mean I wish ill on muslims.

but can you try to sidetrack this less? are you such a useless arguer and bigot that you can't hold a conversation on topic?

I see this is going to be a thread of wild counter attacks and squirming.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by yavoon

I agree with footsteps bronco jamus. you are the racist. that some of our presidential candidates happen to attend churches that demand political allegiance based on the color of one's skin is irrelevant. you are the racist. internalize it. you are the racist.

you are the racist.

I never said he was a racist. But going with this theme...the church is supposed to be a force for positive change in the community among other things. Exactly what do you see wrong with black churches trying to help the black community? Keep in mind that improving inner city conditions with the church as the agent of change saves you tax money.

[shakenbake]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

Oh that's rich. You're the biggest poster of anti islam bs around here. At least man up and admit it.Mccain said that he was his spiritual adviser, what more do you want?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3548250.ece

there you go when you can't rebut, deflect!

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

I never said he was a racist. But going with this theme...the church is supposed to be a force for positive change in the community among other things. Exactly what do you see wrong with black churches trying to help the black community? Keep in mind that improving inner city conditions with the church as the agent of change saves you tax money.

nothing, I imagine lots of nationalist/racist/religionist organizations in their own way do good for their own self-segregated communities. I wouldn't support them to have political power over me though, unless of course I happened to be in their own self-defined group, which I'm not.

and again, some presidential candidates happen to belong to churches that demand political allegiance based on skin color.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

I think the focus on religion right now is an attempt to distract from the two issues this election should be decided on, the war and the economy. Both should favor the DEMS so it's obvious that focusing on this Wright issue serves two purposes, distraction and division, the latter designed to sew seeds of racial conflict and disturb white voters who might otherwise vote for Obama.

That much I can agree on.

[Rigs11]

Originally Posted by yavoon

I am anti-islam, anti-sharia, anti-koran, I believe in women's rights, I believe in gay marriage and I believe in liberty. I believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion both of which are fundamentally opposed by the ideology of islam. it doesn't mean I wish ill on muslims.

but can you try to sidetrack this less? are you such a useless arguer and bigot that you can't hold a conversation on topic?

I see this is going to be a thread of wild counter attacks and squirming.

Ahh you grew some balls.Congratulations Yavoon!You are just adding fuel to the fire. Let it go. There are extremists in all religions, the reason that you don't see christians with bombs strapped to their backs is because they do their killing the "civilized' way.In the name of democracy!with million dollar missiles and jets and tanks.God bless us all...

[Bronco Jamus]

Horse hockey. Change the word from black to white or any race and you also have a racist organization. It's racist in concept and there is no way to dance around it.

Compound that with mister Wright, his church publication, and his endorsement of Farrakhan, and you have the makings of a racist organization. Support that if you must. I won't.

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by Rigs11

Ahh you grew some balls.Congratulations Yavoon!You are just adding fuel to the fire. Let it go. There are extremists in all religions, the reason that you don't see christians with bombs strapped to their backs is because they do their killing the "civilized' way.In the name of democracy!with million dollar missiles and jets and tanks.God bless us all...

all four schools of sharia law, ALL. written down, I do not like. the koran, reading it(have you?) I do not like. and I have never not let it go you moron. your group is just too stupid to have an adult conversation with.

just like the left is going to call americans racist if they in anyway dislike what wright says or what the church believes. you just wait, I can see it now if obama gets the nomination. america is racist, we're all racist, everyone of us and our dislike of obama's church is proof.

[Rigs11]

Originally Posted by shakenbake

there you go when you can't rebut, deflect!

Those are facts boy. Spend a little more time around here and you'll see.Like I stated, all this hoopla about wright but mccains adviser gets a pass?