Philadelphia Flyers (HOME) 08 - 09

[chadta]

i expect us to sell the players you mentioned and still try an pick something up, honestly i dont think smith is really much better then hatcher at this point, kapanen should just be waived nobodys gonna want him, knuble may be usefull to somebody but i dont really expect much for him, that clears alot of cap room to get carter ane umberger signed next year.

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by phillybroncosnut

Chad, did you ever see the Downie/Clarkson fight from about a month ago? Funniest chit I've ever seen. Downie was literally laughing in the dude's face as he was trying to hit Downie. Heres a clip from youtube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e85uC-vXGyo

and another in slowmo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO9Z5...eature=related

I will bet those sledgehammers in the earhole were not all that funny.

[Bronx33]

PHILADELPHIA FLYERS-Claimed F Patrick Thoresen off waivers from Edmonton. Assigned F Claude Giroux to Gatineau of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League.

[chadta]

knew something was gonna happen giroux was an emergency call up and as such could only play 2 games before he had to be sent back.

as i type the panthers just scored with 3.7seconds left to force overtime

[chadta]

well as bad as that choke job was it wasnt even the worst news of the night, mike richards is out for "3 weeks" with a torn hamstring, personally i think hes done for the year too.

this is karma at its finest, pbn we shouldnt have laughed at cindy so much, altho those guys picked it up when guys went down, our guys seem to be rolling over.

[phillybroncosnut]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

I will bet those sledgehammers in the earhole were not all that funny.

yeah, if any of them landed, which they didnt.

[phillybroncosnut]

Originally Posted by chadta

i expect us to sell the players you mentioned and still try an pick something up, honestly i dont think smith is really much better then hatcher at this point, kapanen should just be waived nobodys gonna want him, knuble may be usefull to somebody but i dont really expect much for him, that clears alot of cap room to get carter ane umberger signed next year.

I kinda disagree. Kapanen still has speed and plays with more energy then alot of players in this league. I don't expect to get much at all but I can see how some playoff teams could covet him.
Jason Smith is extremely physical and let's not forget he was a Captain in Edmonton as well as with the Flyers. That leadership and experience is as important come playoff time as someone who put's the puck in the net. I think we could get a 2nd rounder or high prospect for him.
Knuble, like I said before, is useless at even strength. With that said, he is either first or second in the entire NHL in PP goals (16). We all know that special teams make or break teams in the playoffs. I think Knuble could get us more then he should command.

It all depends on how many teams get involved. If only 1 team wants Knuble, it will be hard to extract more then that team is originally offering. If more then 1 team wants any of the above players, we can use them against each other and milk them like a cow.

With the news about Richie, I am on the fence on what direction I want this team to go the rest of the way. If Richie is out 3 weeks, Gagne out for the year, Lupol out at least 2 more weeks, Downie out who knows how long, it might be time to "hope" we finish in the bottom 5 for draft position. Even if we turn it around and sneak into the playoffs, we have little hope with all these injuries.

I heard rumbles at the game last night that the Flyers were going after Hossa, Tangay, and Dan Boyle. I doubt any of those names will be coming to Philly after Richie's injury. Although, if we could get Boyle, I would do it. He is a #1 D-man in this league. Carter and a pick.

Chad, the good news is, giving up the tying goal with 3 seconds left and Richie being out 3 weeks is officially "rock bottom". Can't get any worse from here.

[Bronx33]

Link

If the Flyers players believe that a trade or two will cure all their problems, they're probably misguided.

And that comes from their general manager.

Paul Holmgren doesn't deny he still has his “lines in the water” ahead of Tuesday's NHL trade deadline.

But he's already told the players that it's going to take more than the acquisition of a star player or two to turn things around and presumably get back in the playoff chase.

“We talked about that with the leadership group,” Holmgren said about a meeting he had with the veterans the other day. “The fact of the matter is, we may do nothing. They have to understand that, so stop looking around. Maybe you should look in the mirror.”

Granted, the Flyers are beat up right now, with three key players — Simon Gagne, Joffrey Lupul and Derian Hatcher — sidelined long term.

But if the players still standing think a Mats Sundin, Marian Hossa or Olli Jokinen is going to come here and save the day, they're mistaken.

Holmgren is the first to acknowledge that.

“We need to dig in deeper,” he said. “I'm not sure one player is going to make that big of a difference until the guys here start digging in, if in fact we get that one guy.”

As for the actual possibility of a significant trade, Holmgren continues to emphasize that he's not going to mortgage the team's future. Even if the weekend began with the Flyers mired in a nine-game winless streak.

“The competitive side of all of us (general managers) comes out when we get into a situation like this,” Holmgren said. “The team is struggling and you want to do something to jumpstart it maybe now.

“I think the idea is maybe we have to take a step back and be careful not to jeopardize what we believe to be a pretty good young team.”

Who knows? That just might be a smokescreen. Holmgren might be on the verge of a couple blockbuster deals. But again, he insists on the record he can't let mounting losses or injuries affect his thought process.

“As bad as we all want to win, we don't want to do anything that is going to hurt us next year or the year after that.”

Of course, at every trade deadline, a team's young players become targets. Holmgren said he wouldn't be foreign to dealing a young player ... as long as he gets a young player back.

“I don't know if we would be opposed with young for young,” he said. “Maybe a different position. Let's just say, a guy who's 34 in the last year of his contract, that's something we would probably steer away from.”

Jeff Carter's name has popped up in a number of trade rumors. Holmgren said he's not looking to trade Carter but didn't come out and say what would happen if he got an offer he couldn't refuse.

In other words, untouchable status isn't certain.

“We've had conversations with Jeff, there's no way we're looking to trade him,” Holmgren said. “He's part of our future. His play has been on track for a young guy, I think. And it continues to get better. There are stretches where there can be improvement but there's also stretches where he's taken bigger strides than we would have expected.”

Holmgren sees this two-week nosedive as more of a collective thing, not just a player or two.

“I think our team over the course of the season has relied on playing the game a certain way,” Holmgren said. “In my opinion we don't do enough little things well all the time to win on a more consistent basis. I think that's why we're in this slump. Far too many times we don't put the puck on the net. We don't chip it in deep and chase it. We try to make fancy plays inside the blue line. Sometimes the better play is to just get the puck out and up.

“The teams that are up in the standings do little things really well. We need to start doing that. I told the veteran guys that.”

[phillybroncosnut]

Gotta love Homer! He gets it. he is a Flyer through and through. If I had a direct line to Homer I would tell him.... DON"T BUY. Unless of course he gets young for young (ie Carter for Boyle).
We have to remember, most of the key guys on this team are either in their first year or only have 1 year under their belt (Carter, Richards, Umberger, Coburn, Randy Jones, Downie, Parent, Kuk's, Cote, upshall, Tolpeko, Ruzicka). Let's also not forget, this team has turned over their entire lineup from last season. This entire team, for the most part, is playing together for the first time. Add to that all the injuries the ENTIRE SEASON, and this team has had little to no time to gel. I'm not making excuses, just telling facts. We all know how important it is for each line to gain chemistry. The fact of the matter is, with the injuries, the lines have changed so much since day 1 that they couldn't possible retain any chemistry together.
That said, this has been a disappointing streak. As a season ticket holder, I never once expected us to make a Cup run this season. I was hoping for a playoff birth but after last season and all the change, that was a 50/50 proposition. 10 games ago, I would have called you an idiot if you said we wouldn't make the playoffs. That's where the disappointment lies. However, if you told me we would lose Downie, Gagne, and Lupul for the season, and Braydon Coburn and Hatcher, and Scottie upshall would miss a bulk of games together, I probably wouldn't have called you an idiot for saying we'd miss the playoffs.

Back to the point..... Homer, sell whatever you can. This team is poised for the future. Don't * * * * it up by trying to appease this fanbase by making a foolish deal. No need to push the panic button for 2007 when this team is set up for a 10 year run.

[chadta]

i dont do carter for boyle, hes only signed till the end of the year, sorry not worth it.

[phillybroncosnut]

Originally Posted by chadta

i dont do carter for boyle, hes only signed till the end of the year, sorry not worth it.

So is Carter. Thats the reason Carter has been the subject of trade rumors all year. Going into the season, Richards, Carter and Umberger were all free at the end of the season. They have Richie locked in but there is fear that they can't keep Umberger AND Carter. If you have to choose who to keep, I'd keep Umberger over Carter.

[chadta]

but carter will be cheaper to keep the boyle, hes done nothing to warrant a big deal, tho good d man are harder to find then third line centers, i still dont think i do that deal

[phillybroncosnut]

I;m not so sure TB would do it. Part of the reason they will have trouble keeping Boyle is because they have so much tied up in Vinny, Richards and ST Louis. I think thats 80% of their cap # locked up in 3 guys. I doubt they will take Carter who will be looking to cash in this off season. They look like they will lose Prospal as well. I wish the Flyers kept Vaclav (vinny). I can't remember what we got in return for him. I think it was a deadline deal gone wrong.
If we go after Boyle, I am sure it will be for a Picard, or Parent and a pick or just straight up pick(s).

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by phillybroncosnut

I for one thought Modry looked good. he is was more mobile then Hatcher and can actually move the puck up ice. The Flyers also finally called Stefan Ruzicka up. He looked good in his first game collecting an assist. Giroux looks great.
Richards, briere, Carter and Umberger should be ashamed of themselves. I understand that the massive amounts of injuries have really hurt but all of them HAVE to step it up and not one of them has.
Thank god Vandermeer is gone. I have been pleading for this since his second game back with the Flyers.

We've just picked up an extra $5.2 million of cap money with Gagne being done for the year. with that said, I think the Flyers should be sellers an d not buyers at the deadline. Kapanen, Knuble, and at this point I'd consider trading Jason Smith. I think we are set at D going into next season. Timonen, Coburn, Randy Jones, Parent, Kukkenon, and Andre Picard. We could get a boatload for Jason Smith.

This could go either way. I don't see the Flyers throwing in the towel. The Flyers always have tried to do everything and anything to put a winner on the ice. I would'nt be surprised to see the Flyers go after a Marian Hossa with all that new found cap money, but, I would rather see the Flyers sell though.

I don't know if Hossa is a good long-term fit for what your team is trying to build though. He can help, but does he fit with the identity you guys are trying to build?

[chadta]

Originally Posted by claviculasolomonis

I don't know if Hossa is a good long-term fit for what your team is trying to build though. He can help, but does he fit with the identity you guys are trying to build?

i agree, BUT neither is briere, and we can all see how thats turning out, i would take hossa only if briere was going the other way, otherwise we will be in a bad position, see tampa bay, with half the cap tied up in 3 players.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by chadta

i agree, BUT neither is briere, and we can all see how thats turning out, i would take hossa only if briere was going the other way, otherwise we will be in a bad position, see tampa bay, with half the cap tied up in 3 players.

Well, they did win a cup though... So i guess you have to value for what it's worth.

[chadta]

Originally Posted by claviculasolomonis

Well, they did win a cup though... So i guess you have to value for what it's worth.

the cup win was the cause of the big contracts that are now criplling the team, richards signed his in 06, st louis signed his after the cup win in 05, not the result of the big contracts.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by chadta

the cup win was the cause of the big contracts that are now criplling the team, richards signed his in 06, st louis signed his after the cup win in 05, not the result of the big contracts.

Still though, i don't think your team has an real identity yet. I think a few people need to leave IMO. Philly always has a strong and deep team, but each year there is always "something" missing. One year(more than not ), it might be goaltending (seriously, how does Philly "break" so many goalies?), or maybe the D isn't just up to snuff, etc. I think if you move briere for hossa, one good thing would be, you could dump the contract that way. Hossa has 1yr left (this year) - so you could look at it as a sort of buy out. That would be a positive.

As good as Hossa is, i would not want the Pens to go for him. With contract renewals for Staal & Malkin, and who knows what's going to happen with Fluery (i'm assuming a renewal as well), the pens are going to go in the direction of having a solid core, and adding role players.

The Flyers have some really good core talent. I think Hossa just isn't what identity your team wants to go in. Granted you have briere, but that's the types of things I mean when i opened with the "identity" of your team.

It's why i'm excited about things with the Pens. I mean crosby is what, 20yrs old. He's only going to mature. That's why i don't care about the "whiner" label. I figure right now he's pissy, but hell i was a prick when i was 20... so how can i fault that, ya know.

I like richards on your team - and i think Umberger is a good player too.

I also think the front office moves for your team were way over due. As a pens fan, i wished bobby clarke would GM forever (ala carl peterson). But really, to win a cup you need clarke totally out of your team's affairs. That's an outsider telling you this, not out of anything other than i think he ****s it up.

I think gagne should be kicked to the curb too. I think he's over the hill. I also wished Primeau would have played for another team, i could have liked him then.

[chadta]

they have an identity, the team from the city with the curse of the ben franklin statue.

[phillybroncosnut]

Whew! I love you Danny!!!! Suck it Buffalo fans.

[phillybroncosnut]

Welcome back Vinny Prospal. Giving up Picard is not that big a price at all. Good deal Homer.

[chadta]

Originally Posted by phillybroncosnut

Whew! I love you Danny!!!! Suck it Buffalo fans.

i still hate him, and i still hate the shoot out, and while i think th eprospal deal was a good one, its not the one we needed.

[phillybroncosnut]

Originally Posted by chadta

i still hate him, and i still hate the shoot out, and while i think th eprospal deal was a good one, its not the one we needed.

I gotta admit, I have a soft spot for Danny after Saturday. I waited after the game with my so for autographs. Danny was the last one out and my son and I were the only one's left waiting. Danny took the time to joke around with my son. He also had a 5 minute conversation with me. I told him to keep his chin up and don't let the boo's get to him. he said something that shocked me. He said he doesn't blame the fans for booing. Danny said he needed to do alot more to help the team win. He also said that if he was a normal working guy who had to shell out $200 a game, he would boo to.
Danny was a humble, down to earth guy. Soft spoken, yet determined to get the job done. From here on out, he is now one of my favorite players. The whole story sounds corney, I know, but it is what it is.

I'm interested in finding out what you think is the deal we "need" to make
Is it a specific player or position? I like the Prospal deal. He should be immediately plugged in on the Briere line. Vinny has incredible vision and should be able to feed Danny. We will see how quickly the can gel. I think we need Defense but, defense is more of a system then a player. You can't just add the top defenseman in the league and all of a sudden become a defensive force. If the Flyers are seriously trying to win this year, adding one guy to the blue line won't make or break em.
I was kind of all around that deal huh? I was talking about Prospal and then said the Flyers would give up Picard and a pick for Boyle. I was So close.

[phillybroncosnut]

I also don't believe Homer is done. I have a weird feeling that something big will happen. I think one of the young guns is going away. I just have that strange hunch. I could be completely wrong though.

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by phillybroncosnut

Welcome back Vinny Prospal. Giving up Picard is not that big a price at all. Good deal Homer.

a 2009 conditional pick was also in the deal.