Tiny terrier saved kids from pit bulls

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by fontaine

I'm not big into these types of dogs but can anyone tell me why you would want to continiously breed certain types of dogs to produce Tosa Inus, Presa Canarios?

I think its pretty disgusting how certain breeds have come about specifically because of dog fighting.

http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm

Here's a site with some good historical info on the pitt bull terrier. I have to warn people though this site contains graphic images of the effects of dog fighting. It's not pretty and is very disturbing to me at least.

[vancejohnson82]

The anti-pit crap is so ridiculous...almost every dog in the pound, or in most homes has some kind of pit/mastiff/jaw-line looks aggressive...but everytime something happens they make it out to be a full-blown, bred pit...more than likely these were mutts, and good half been half Labradors, or Boxers or even (gasp) Scottshire terriers...

[Steve Sewell]

Originally Posted by orange 4 life

i hate to be mean, but you sound flat out idiotic making that statement.
ive got two of 'em pal, and im guessing you dont.

www.dogbreedinfo.com
theyre rated in the top category with reliability w/ children and strangers, and every other neutral source of information says the same thing.
sounds like ALOT of really insane people huh?
or maybe youre just uneducated on the subject. thats okay, but you might wanna get some info besides an occasional sensationalized news story before calling people insane.

our dogs smile when we walk through the door. they like to spoon. they get their feelings hurt when disciplined (they remember long after. really cute). they start shaking when they hear people yelling. theyve never even SNAPPED at a person let alone bit someone. theyre afraid of my sisters cat and the older one ran to me whimpering when my dads spaniel went after him.
they like to go for rides in the car, and will lay their heads in our laps while we're driving. they pose for pictures, they eat almost daintily (also very cute. unlike a typical dog that swallows food whole), and the younger one consistently accompanies my wife to her hair salon where the kids from the neighboring karate studio cant wait to come play with him and/or take him for a walk after their workout.

get a clue before insulting people.

I have two kids...of course I don't have a pitbull. Why would I ever expose my children to the most dangerous dog breed in the US? Are Beerslug's statistics, which display the large margin lead for pitbulls over rot's in terms of dog attacks, maimings, and killings somehow inaccurate?

I'm sure there are some pitbulls out there that are perfectly docile. Am I idiotic enough to try my luck with my two precious children because I'm an ass and disregard the statistics for the sake of owning a certain breed? Absolutely not.

[Steve Sewell]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Sorry but the tone of my post was nothing like you describe. Also your comparisons are far fetched and juvenile. I suggest you read my posts again and see if you get the point this time.

Sure it was...you used the "This is America" excuse. You know, the one used for everything from "I should be able to carry an AK anywhere I want" to "I want to own the most dangerous dog breed in America because I CAN". Nothing juvenile about my comparisons. These are all significant risks to public safety. The Libertarian crowd can't have their cake and eat it too, which is why they don't win many elections other than local ones.

[Steve Sewell]

Originally Posted by RkyMtnThunder

Thats pretty interesting. If I am reading that list right - Pitt Bulls have better temperment than Beagles

"Hey honey, we should get a dog for the kids, don't you think?"

"Sounds like a swell idea, let's get something that's going to be safe with the kids...how bout a Pit Bull?"

Pure stupidity:

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

The number of fatalities.

In the US from 1979 to 1996, 304 people in the US died from dog attacks, including 30 in California. The average number of deaths per year was 17.

Most of the deceased were children. ("Dog-Bite-Related Fatalities -- United States, 1995-1996," MMWR 46(21):463-467, 1997.) The chances that the victim of a fatal dog attack will be a burglar are one in 177; the odds that it will be a child are 7 out of 10.

However, fatalities are highly unusual. For every fatal dog bite in the United States, there are 230,000 bites that are not treated by a physician.
The dogs that are most responsible

Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.

According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question.
Clifton states:

If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.

Clifton's opinions are as interesting as his statistics. For example, he says, "Pit bulls and Rottweilers are accordingly dogs who not only must be handled with special precautions, but also must be regulated with special requirements appropriate to the risk they may pose to the public and other animals, if they are to be kept at all."

orange4life...I think I'll take the EXPERT's opinion on this one.

[bendog]

I'd agree with that Steve. Breeds shouldn't be banned, but owners of the more "aggressive" breeds should have to get special licenses that are given out by a relatively few professional trainers. I too know a Pit who has been through K-9 training, and the dog poses no risk to anyone, unless the person is doing something the Pit has been trained to not allow. But, it's not that the dog has been trained so much as the owner - the K-9 trainer - is trained on how to approach the dog. If you or I approach the dog, the dog will essentially ignore us. The dog is focused on doing what the trainer wants.

And the same trainer worked with Henry for a weekend when I borded him. No negative reinforcement is used. Not that it worked. The only way I can get the dog to come back once he's loose in the front yard is to either let him run for 10 minutes after which he comes back and lies down panting, or nail him with a tree limb and yell "sit down Goddammit, or I'll beat the crap outta yah!" Either one works like a charm. Obviously I'm not a candidate for a Pit.

[Steve Sewell]

Originally Posted by bendog

I'd agree with that Steve. Breeds shouldn't be banned, but owners of the more "aggressive" breeds should have to get special licenses that are given out by a relatively few professional trainers. I too know a Pit who has been through K-9 training, and the dog poses no risk to anyone, unless the person is doing something the Pit has been trained to not allow. But, it's not that the dog has been trained so much as the owner - the K-9 trainer - is trained on how to approach the dog. If you or I approach the dog, the dog will essentially ignore us. The dog is focused on doing what the trainer wants.

And the same trainer worked with Henry for a weekend when I borded him. No negative reinforcement is used. Not that it worked. The only way I can get the dog to come back once he's loose in the front yard is to either let him run for 10 minutes after which he comes back and lies down panting, or nail him with a tree limb and yell "sit down Goddammit, or I'll beat the crap outta yah!" Either one works like a charm. Obviously I'm not a candidate for a Pit.

Hopefully if they ever crack down and actually regulate this activity, it won't be as much of a complete joke as our gun regulations.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by chadta

for you pit bull lovers, would you leave your 2 or 3 little kids with the dog unsupervised ?

if so how bad would you feel if something happened to them ?

if not then why the hell would you let the dogs loose with my kids ?

well my Dad had a half Shar pei half pit , and the former owner of this dog , trained it to be mean , and Boomer was a bastard before my Dad rescued him ..... about 3 months after my Dad got him me , the wife , and kids were over visting , I looked over and my 12 year old who was 5 at the time , Had boomer by the tounge , dragging him around the house , I yelled , grabbed cody , and ole boomer didnt attack me , but he let me know he didnt like me grabbing my son , after that , I would leave any kid alone with Boomer ......Boomer has done passed on , but he was a good dog in a bad situation , then placed in a good home ...... My point is , there are good dogs , and bad dogs , but you have to get to know the dog , 2 quick test ........
1. Let the dog go 2 days with out eating , put food down in front of him , then take the food ,see the dogs reaction ......
2. grab the dogs paw , pinch inbetween his toes ,if he does nothing , keep the dog ............

[Spider]

I have a half Chow Half Collie right now he is a great dog , when my trips nurse comes to the house for therapy , he doesnt get aggressive with the nurse , but he watches her every move , makes her nervous , so I lock him up .........
But he is a great watch dog , for the family while i am out on the road .......

[kamakazi_kal]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Did you lose your place? You said they don't make good guard dogs. I'm pointing out that they aren't quite as bad as you try and make them out to be.

.......its early........i better go get coffee........sorry.

[clarkster]

essentially it comes down to who leads the pack. if the dog does, he can get mean in a hurry.
my dog, rescued from the dog fighting capital of the country during the most horrorific conditions (NOLA, Katrina. a balcony) was likely either going to be a fighter or bait dog.(we dont know what he is, lab, hound, pit,boxer,rhodesian,who knows)
he used to be rough with the kid when playing, until he realized everytime the kid said "OW lou!" it resulted in hurt. now we cant even play rough with him, he runs away and finds his ball and brings it back. and hes quite possibly the worst guard dog ever. but he looks the part.
i love my Lou, but i dont humanize him. thats actually whats worst for a dog is the wife and kids humanizing him. hes still a dog and gets treated like a dog daily. my wife calls me a jerk, but he listens to his humans and knows to listen to me, lest he want to enter Sucksville.

[TheDave]

Originally Posted by RkyMtnThunder

Thats pretty interesting. If I am reading that list right - Pitt Bulls have better temperment than Beagles

Damn those Savage Beagles...

[bendog]

If Henry missed a meal he'd be heartbroken that no one loved him anymore.

[bendog]

Be glad you're not a rabbit.

[Steve Sewell]

Originally Posted by TheDave

Damn those Savage Beagles...

My family just got a beagle/jack russell mix and she has the exact same coloring as that beagle (and beagle ears to boot), just a more narrow snout and slighter frame.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Steve Sewell

Sure it was...you used the "This is America" excuse. You know, the one used for everything from "I should be able to carry an AK anywhere I want" to "I want to own the most dangerous dog breed in America because I CAN". Nothing juvenile about my comparisons. These are all significant risks to public safety. The Libertarian crowd can't have their cake and eat it too, which is why they don't win many elections other than local ones.

You just don't get it. I have no problem with laws to protect public safety. I question whether a ban on Pit Bulls would significantly make anyone safer. Just to be on the record I fully support local govt right to regulate dogs if the people who vote for them in that locality support it. I am however against a federal law banning any breed of dog. I also don't think dog attacks will stop if you ban Pit Bulls. There are several more powerful breeds that could take their place.

By the way you're ak-47 analogy is pretty stupid.

[Steve Sewell]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

By the way you're ak-47 analogy is pretty stupid.

Go to any of the gun threads in the politics forum, you'll see what I mean.

[Spider]

The lead story reminds me of this .........
2 kids were almost mauled in city park by a pit Bull one kid picks up a stick and stops the pit ........
reporter shows up , meets the kid , and starts to write , young Bronco fan saves playmate from vicious dog attack .......
Kid say I dont like the Broncos ........ reporter asked who is your favorite team then ? Kid replied Raiders ........
the reporter then writes , Raider thug beats beloved family pet ...........

[cutthemdown]

Ok here is what I think is a better analogy.

Having aggressive dogs can be a danger to others.
Having swimming pools is even more dangerous to children check out these stats.
http://www.poolalarms.com/pool_drowning_statistics.htm

Six people drown in U.S. pools every day. Many of these pools are public facilities staffed with certified professional lifeguards. Centers for Disease Control Drowning is the 4th leading cause of accidental death in the United States, claiming 4,000 lives annually. Approximately one-third are children under the age of 14. American Institute for Preventive Medicine Drowning is the second-leading cause of unintentional, injury-related death among children under the age of 15. National Center for Health Statistics A child can drown in the time it takes to answer a phone. U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission 19% of drowning deaths involving children occur in public pools with certified lifeguards present. Drowning Prevention Foundation A swimming pool is 14 times more likely than a motor vehicle to be involved in the death of a child age 4 and under. Orange County California Fire Authority Children under five and adolescents between the ages of 15-24 have the highest drowning rates. American Academy of Pediatrics For every child who drowns, four are hospitalized for near drowning. American Academy of Pediatrics An estimated 5,000 children ages 14 and under are hospitalized due to near-drownings each year; 15 percent die in the hospital and as many as 20 percent suffer severe, permanent neurological disability. Foundation for Aquatic Injury Prevention Of all preschoolers who drown, 70 percent are in the care of one or both parents at the time of the drowning and 75 percent are missing from sight for five minutes or less. Orange County, CA, Fire Authority In 10 states - Alaska, Arizona, California, Florida, Hawaii, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, Utah and Washington - drowning surpasses all other causes of death to children age 14 and under. Orange County, CA, Fire Authority

Now seeing how dangerous pools can be, should we make them illegal? It would obviously be safer to not have them. Even if you don't let kids swim in your pool it's still there when your not, a kid can hop fence and drown while you're not there. As you can see they even die at alarming rates in public pools staffed by lifegaurds. Once you start regulating things it never ends. Life is has some danger to it and no matter what you do you can't legislate danger out of life.

so about 400 fatal dog attacks a year, and over 4000 drownings, hmmm pretty lopsided.

[penguintheory]

God this thread is so stupid. Pit bull owners sticking up for their dogs' breed, and non-dog owners trying to make a case that canines are vicious.

"Agree to disagree"

[Spider]

Just like a guy walks up to a man that has a German Shepard next ot him ......
Guy #1 : Does your dog bite ?
Guy#2 no my dog doesnt bite ........
Guy #1 goes to pet the dog , dog bites him ....he said I thought you said your dog doesnt bite .....
Guy #2 this isnt my dog .........it is my wifes dog

[Bladerunner]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Ok here is what I think is a better analogy.

Having aggressive dogs can be a danger to others.
Having swimming pools is even more dangerous to children check out these stats.
http://www.poolalarms.com/pool_drowning_statistics.htm


Now seeing how dangerous pools can be, should we make them illegal? It would obviously be safer to not have them. Even if you don't let kids swim in your pool it's still there when your not, a kid can hop fence and drown while you're not there. As you can see they even die at alarming rates in public pools staffed by lifegaurds. Once you start regulating things it never ends. Life is has some danger to it and no matter what you do you can't legislate danger out of life.

so about 400 fatal dog attacks a year, and over 4000 drownings, hmmm pretty lopsided.

well...if the evidence came out that a particular brand of swimming pool was significantly more dangerous than other brands, and that they were responsible for a grossly disproportionate percentage of drowning deaths, I woud expect and support goverment intervention to get the dangerous pools out of the yard...

Now your analogy is valid.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by penguintheory

God this thread is so stupid. Pit bull owners sticking up for their dogs' breed, and non-dog owners trying to make a case that canines are vicious.

"Agree to disagree"

Who made you boss?

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Bladerunner

well...if the evidence came out that a particular brand of swimming pool was significantly more dangerous than other brands, and that they were responsible for a grossly disproportionate percentage of drowning deaths, I woud expect and support goverment intervention to get the dangerous pools out of the yard...

Now your analogy is valid.

The evidence is that pools by there nature are very dangerous. They claim lives every year no matter what you do to try and make them safe. I have given you stats to back up how dangerous pools really are. Under your thinking they should be banned. You just don't want to admit your argument just got smoked. Either that or you support the death of 4000 people every year.

[watermock]

What a classic example of deflection.