Will the Broncos have the worst defense in the West or is Crazyhorse baiting again? - The Orange Mane

crazyhorse · 04-26-2007, 09:42 AM

I say yes.

The Broncos not only have done little to improve the defense over last season, which was on the decline. They have lost the best piece of thier front seven.

The addition of Dre Bly may be an upgrade over Williams (thats debatable). But the further deterioration of the front 7 will give him little opportunity to make a difference, as the run defense will surely not be as good.

What's your opinion?

Drek · 04-26-2007, 09:47 AM

No.

The best defensive back crew in the NFL.

The second best divisional LB crew behind SD, and thats without Al Wilson.

And a new coaching staff that has a history of getting good production out of scrubs at the DL.

We'll out perform the chefs handily, and I think the fade will take a step back as we take a step forward.

Wilson hasn't been a anchoring MLB for several years now. He's been good but he hasn't been making big plays. Getting DJ on the field more is going to help our nickel formation, we just need a run stopping MLB to pick up Wilson's slack in the base 4-3. A healthy Ed Hartwell would do that, drafting David Harris would do that.

If we go defense in the draft we'll be even better. Anderson, Branch, or Willis and we're sitting real good on D.

cmhargrove · 04-26-2007, 09:53 AM

It's really hard to say, but being a Bronco fan, I am always optimistic. I think we obviously needed a new scheme because we were getting toooled in the second half of games, and the second half of the season.

I think having Bailey and Bly can't be underestimated. It allows more players to be situated near the line of scrimmage.

I think we will get some D-line help in the draft and that should change things.

Most defenses are 1 or 2 injuries away from being average. If we stay healthy, we could actually outperform the 2006 defense if we stay healthy longer into the season.

I would trade a little defense for a top 5 offense this year. Maybe we give up some yards, then let our corners keep them out of the endzone.

Finally, what defensive talent has Denver really lost in the offseason that would lead you to believe a real dropoff (besides MLB)? Darrent was a tragic loss, but Bly is at least as good. We had a patchwork D-line last year and were "record setting" to begin the year. MOst of those guys are still here. We should address LB and D-line in the draft which should help. I see no real dropoff.

crazyhorse · 04-26-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drek

No.

The best defensive back crew in the NFL.

The second best divisional LB crew behind SD, and thats without Al Wilson.

And a new coaching staff that has a history of getting good production out of scrubs at the DL.

We'll out perform the chefs handily, and I think the fade will take a step back as we take a step forward.

Wilson hasn't been a anchoring MLB for several years now. He's been good but he hasn't been making big plays. Getting DJ on the field more is going to help our nickel formation, we just need a run stopping MLB to pick up Wilson's slack in the base 4-3. A healthy Ed Hartwell would do that, drafting David Harris would do that.

If we go defense in the draft we'll be even better. Anderson, Branch, or Willis and we're sitting real good on D.

Many here considered the Broncos to have the best DB crew last year. That didn't help.

You had the second best LB corps last year. That didn't help.

A revamped coaching staff in thier 1st season. That doesn't help.

I doubt you outperform the defense of the Chiefs. But thats speculation on my part.

If you draft defense, you may improve. But on the D line you have had little success drafting.

400HZ · 04-26-2007, 09:56 AM

Depends on the draft.

crazyhorse · 04-26-2007, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400HZ

Depends on the draft.

I agree.

The only thing that will keep them off the bottom is the draft.

Jason in LA · 04-26-2007, 10:02 AM

This guy must have forgot that the Chiefs play in the AFC West.

As for D-Will and Bly, nobody really wants to say, but Bly is a big upgrade over D-Will. D-Will struggled a lot last year, to the point that some people wanted him benched. He had a lot of potential, but who knows what would have happened with him. Bly is very good. There is no question about that.

go_broncos · 04-26-2007, 10:03 AM

It depends on the draft..

If we keep on Drafting WR,CB's ,RB's and TE..then YES..we have the worst defense in the west..

If it happens like this for 2 more years..i would rate Shanny with Matt Millen(in relation to Draft)

fontaine · 04-26-2007, 10:04 AM

The Chargers have the best D especially after they locked up Shaun Phillips who's only going to get better.

After that it's a toss up between the raiders/chefs/broncos.

It really depends on how drastically Bates changes things. We have enough DEs to have an average front and a healthy Warren will help. It's more of the same really along the front four with rotational players doing the grunt work.

I'm more concerned about our aging safeties. We definitely need to upgrade Ferguson.

That and DT are the biggest needs in my opinion. I don't want another repeat of last year where we were forced to slot in Ekuban at DT because the front four really wore down last year because we were so light with Ekuban/Dumervil/Lang.

Bronco_Beerslug · 04-26-2007, 10:04 AM

Why do people keep feeding these trolls?

crazyhorse · 04-26-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Why do people keep feeding these trolls?

Oh look, another cry baby.

This is a legit topic about football where no flaming is involved intil you posted. Are you the troll?

Perhaps you shouldn't have clicked on the topic.

55CrushEm · 04-26-2007, 10:09 AM

No....the Chiefs will.

Billy Clyde Puckett · 04-26-2007, 10:10 AM

I've got to get another cup of coffee. I don't understand the Starbucks thing. Good old Folgers for me.

broncswin · 04-26-2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason in LA

This guy must have forgot that the Chiefs play in the AFC West.

As for D-Will and Bly, nobody really wants to say, but Bly is a big upgrade over D-Will. D-Will struggled a lot last year, to the point that some people wanted him benched. He had a lot of potential, but who knows what would have happened with him. Bly is very good. There is no question about that.

I agree. I loved d-will, but at times he looked really bad (colts), Bly is a difference maker on D. hopefully opposing qb's have the same outlook on the Broncos D as you do crazy. I don't really understand where crazy is coming from when he says a new defensive coaching staff can't have an immediate impact. There is no dman way we don't get to the qb more with Bates and co. But, you will just have to see it for yourself.

broncswin · 04-26-2007, 10:13 AM

Field position will also help our D out in a big way. No more of this starting from the 40, with special teams improvement come defensive improvement!!

Drek · 04-26-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorse

Many here considered the Broncos to have the best DB crew last year. That didn't help.

We were the best in the AFC West last year, now we have the best crew in the NFL.

Quote:

A revamped coaching staff in thier 1st season. That doesn't help.

Bates has a history of stepping up front lines in his first season. Did it very well in Green Bay two years ago for example.

Quote:

I doubt you outperform the defense of the Chiefs. But thats speculation on my part.

If you draft defense, you may improve. But on the D line you have had little success drafting.

We were 3rd best yardage per game team, 2nd best points against team, and tied for the first most turnovers per game team. Since then we've added a CB who's pro-bowled three times in the last four years and lost a LB who was becoming a liability to our nickel formation.

Talent on the field alone we're at least comparable to what we were last year, and thats before the draft. If Bates can get the DL playing like he has everywhere else he's been and/or if we draft DL help early, we'll be poised to position ourselves as one of the best defenses in the NFL, regardless of where we stand in the division.

Hercules Rockefeller · 04-26-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorse

Oh look, another cry baby.

Funny coming from a guy who went and started a thread at CP to whine about being banned for a week here. But that'd probably put you in the "whiny p***Y" category rather than the "cry baby" one.

eddie mac · 04-26-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorse

I say yes.

The Broncos not only have done little to improve the defense over last season, which was on the decline. They have lost the best piece of thier front seven.

The addition of Dre Bly may be an upgrade over Williams (thats debatable). But the further deterioration of the front 7 will give him little opportunity to make a difference, as the run defense will surely not be as good.

What's your opinion?

It depends which conditioned defense shows up next year. The one who dominated the scoreboard in the 1st half of the season with Brandon/Ferguson or the one who collapsed at the end of the season without both those players.

broncswin · 04-26-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go_broncos

It depends on the draft..

If we keep on Drafting WR,CB's ,RB's and TE..then YES..we have the worst defense in the west..

If it happens like this for 2 more years..i would rate Shanny with Matt Millen(in relation to Draft)

So you've been pretty happy with our draft line the last 5 years?

cmhargrove · 04-26-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorse

Many here considered the Broncos to have the best DB crew last year. That didn't help.

You had the second best LB corps last year. That didn't help.

A revamped coaching staff in thier 1st season. That doesn't help.

I doubt you outperform the defense of the Chiefs. But thats speculation on my part.

If you draft defense, you may improve. But on the D line you have had little success drafting.

If you are sticking with the facts, our defense was "setting records" in the first half of the season, then collapsed. So, our defense wasn't the only liability last year. The defense actually held every team in check for the first half of games and our offense couldn't capitalize. If we had put up big numbers in the first quarter (like the past decade), I think we would have still won the AFC West, and beat several teams like the Colts, Seahawks, and 49rs.
Bates has shown that he gets results in the first year. You may argue, but those are the facts from two other teams he has coached.
The Chiefs defense might be in the same position as the Broncos last year. If the offense has a harder time putting up points this year, the defense might slow down in the second half of the season and fold (kind of like they did against the Colts).
I understand your speculation, but what if the Chiefs lose Allen for a few games under suspension? What if they are on the field too long with all the changes on the offense?

Denver D will be better than expected, partially because the offense should carry their weight this year and not over-burden the D.

broncosteven · 04-26-2007, 10:25 AM

I think the D will be serviceable & Shanny will plan on out scoring his opposition with the O.

cmhargrove · 04-26-2007, 10:26 AM

Maybe we should start a post on the Chiefs offense.

I think they will still be better than the Raiders this year, but the Chiefs could potentially experience a real dropoff. That has been their saving grace for the last decade. I don't think they will really trade LJ, but if they did, that would be tragic.

And, the real question is about who you think will win more games. I think the Chargers and Broncos fight out the top spot, while the Chiefs finish about 2 games better than the Raiders.

Broncos and Chargers (10-13 wins each)
Chiefs (8-8)
Raiders (6-10)

plummershelper · 04-26-2007, 10:29 AM

Some of the best defensive players we will have this year will be our offense. If Henry, Cutler, Marshall, Walker, Graham, and Scheffler can keep the chains moving and points on the board it doesn't matter as much how good our defense is. The reason that same dline wore down was because they had to be on the field all the time. The reason the linebackers wore down was because of the lineman being gassed. It's all a trickle down from the offense. Like someone said, we were recordbreaking on D early in the year. If they can get more of a breather from this O, they could do very well again. That said, this D isn't nearly as good as it can be. Right now we'd be low in the division, but wait till the draft and see if this offense can gel. Then you can cry yourself to sleep by your stupid engine block and wipe your tears away with your mullet.

Rohirrim · 04-26-2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Guy

I've got to get another cup of coffee. I don't understand the Starbucks thing. Good old Folgers for me.

Try one of those mochas. They're awesome. If they weren't so full of fat I'd have one everyday. You know what's another place I like? Jamba juice. Damn! I could get addicted to that ****.

Bronco_Beerslug · 04-26-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller

Funny coming from a guy who went and started a thread at CP to whine about being banned for a week here. But that'd probably put you in the "whiny p***Y" category rather than the "cry baby" one.

His trolling isn't even remotely interesting but he knows some people will take the bait anyway.

04-26-2007, 09:42 AM	#1
crazyhorse All Motor!! You can only hope to contain me Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,338	Will the Broncos have the worst defense in the West or is Crazyhorse baiting again? I say yes. The Broncos not only have done little to improve the defense over last season, which was on the decline. They have lost the best piece of thier front seven. The addition of Dre Bly may be an upgrade over Williams (thats debatable). But the further deterioration of the front 7 will give him little opportunity to make a difference, as the run defense will surely not be as good. What's your opinion?

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04-26-2007, 09:47 AM	#2
Drek Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 12,317	No. The best defensive back crew in the NFL. The second best divisional LB crew behind SD, and thats without Al Wilson. And a new coaching staff that has a history of getting good production out of scrubs at the DL. We'll out perform the chefs handily, and I think the fade will take a step back as we take a step forward. Wilson hasn't been a anchoring MLB for several years now. He's been good but he hasn't been making big plays. Getting DJ on the field more is going to help our nickel formation, we just need a run stopping MLB to pick up Wilson's slack in the base 4-3. A healthy Ed Hartwell would do that, drafting David Harris would do that. If we go defense in the draft we'll be even better. Anderson, Branch, or Willis and we're sitting real good on D.

04-26-2007, 09:53 AM	#3
cmhargrove Is this thing on??? Travis Henry's love child... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 6,409 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Hillis	It's really hard to say, but being a Bronco fan, I am always optimistic. I think we obviously needed a new scheme because we were getting toooled in the second half of games, and the second half of the season. I think having Bailey and Bly can't be underestimated. It allows more players to be situated near the line of scrimmage. I think we will get some D-line help in the draft and that should change things. Most defenses are 1 or 2 injuries away from being average. If we stay healthy, we could actually outperform the 2006 defense if we stay healthy longer into the season. I would trade a little defense for a top 5 offense this year. Maybe we give up some yards, then let our corners keep them out of the endzone. Finally, what defensive talent has Denver really lost in the offseason that would lead you to believe a real dropoff (besides MLB)? Darrent was a tragic loss, but Bly is at least as good. We had a patchwork D-line last year and were "record setting" to begin the year. MOst of those guys are still here. We should address LB and D-line in the draft which should help. I see no real dropoff.

04-26-2007, 09:56 AM	#5
400HZ Ring of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,345 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ed Hochuli	Depends on the draft.

04-26-2007, 10:02 AM	#7
Jason in LA Gimmie that rep fool! Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: LA Posts: 12,253	This guy must have forgot that the Chiefs play in the AFC West. As for D-Will and Bly, nobody really wants to say, but Bly is a big upgrade over D-Will. D-Will struggled a lot last year, to the point that some people wanted him benched. He had a lot of potential, but who knows what would have happened with him. Bly is very good. There is no question about that.

04-26-2007, 10:03 AM	#8
go_broncos Ring of Famer **** you Bill Vinovich Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 5,219 Adopt-a-Bronco: Rod Smith	It depends on the draft.. If we keep on Drafting WR,CB's ,RB's and TE..then YES..we have the worst defense in the west.. If it happens like this for 2 more years..i would rate Shanny with Matt Millen(in relation to Draft)

04-26-2007, 10:04 AM	#9
fontaine Ring of Famer Go John Manning! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,428	The Chargers have the best D especially after they locked up Shaun Phillips who's only going to get better. After that it's a toss up between the raiders/chefs/broncos. It really depends on how drastically Bates changes things. We have enough DEs to have an average front and a healthy Warren will help. It's more of the same really along the front four with rotational players doing the grunt work. I'm more concerned about our aging safeties. We definitely need to upgrade Ferguson. That and DT are the biggest needs in my opinion. I don't want another repeat of last year where we were forced to slot in Ekuban at DT because the front four really wore down last year because we were so light with Ekuban/Dumervil/Lang.

04-26-2007, 10:04 AM	#10
Bronco_Beerslug Angling in the Deep Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas Riviera, Southern Mountains Posts: 24,281	Why do people keep feeding these trolls?

04-26-2007, 10:09 AM	#12
55CrushEm Dynamic Duo Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: North of Boston, MA Posts: 5,592 Adopt-a-Bronco: Quanterus Smith	No....the Chiefs will.

04-26-2007, 10:10 AM	#13
Billy Clyde Puckett Billy=Semi Tough Big Guy Looking down on KC, SD and Oakland Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: between 5,000 and 10,000 feet elevation Posts: 12,665 Adopt-a-Bronco: John Elway	I've got to get another cup of coffee. I don't understand the Starbucks thing. Good old Folgers for me.

04-26-2007, 10:13 AM	#15
broncswin God I love those Broncos Bring back the hardware Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Broncos Fantasy Land Posts: 2,017 Adopt-a-Bronco: three amigos	Field position will also help our D out in a big way. No more of this starting from the 40, with special teams improvement come defensive improvement!!

04-26-2007, 10:25 AM	#21
broncosteven The Kranz Dictum MWA: Flight Director Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tranquility Base Posts: 29,036 Adopt-a-Bronco: MONEYBALL #38	I think the D will be serviceable & Shanny will plan on out scoring his opposition with the O.

04-26-2007, 10:26 AM	#22
cmhargrove Is this thing on??? Travis Henry's love child... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 6,409 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Hillis	Maybe we should start a post on the Chiefs offense. I think they will still be better than the Raiders this year, but the Chiefs could potentially experience a real dropoff. That has been their saving grace for the last decade. I don't think they will really trade LJ, but if they did, that would be tragic. And, the real question is about who you think will win more games. I think the Chargers and Broncos fight out the top spot, while the Chiefs finish about 2 games better than the Raiders. Broncos and Chargers (10-13 wins each) Chiefs (8-8) Raiders (6-10)

04-26-2007, 10:29 AM	#23
plummershelper Light Rail Rumor Monger I heard on the light rail ... Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Burger Heaven, next to my meteorite Posts: 791	Some of the best defensive players we will have this year will be our offense. If Henry, Cutler, Marshall, Walker, Graham, and Scheffler can keep the chains moving and points on the board it doesn't matter as much how good our defense is. The reason that same dline wore down was because they had to be on the field all the time. The reason the linebackers wore down was because of the lineman being gassed. It's all a trickle down from the offense. Like someone said, we were recordbreaking on D early in the year. If they can get more of a breather from this O, they could do very well again. That said, this D isn't nearly as good as it can be. Right now we'd be low in the division, but wait till the draft and see if this offense can gel. Then you can cry yourself to sleep by your stupid engine block and wipe your tears away with your mullet.