If Cincy wins, are the Broncos in? - The Orange Mane

Jason in LA · 12-31-2006, 12:20 PM

This tie breaker thing is becoming very confusing, so I decided to throw another wrench in the thing.

I'm looking at the standings, and it appears that if Cincy wins, the Broncos are in, even with a loss.

If there are a bunch of teams at 9-7 it has been said that the Chiefs hold the advantage over the Broncos because of the division record. Which I don't think makes much sense. A division record to settle a conference playoff spot doesn't make sense, but that's how it is. So the logic is that if the Broncos fall to 9-7, and the Cheifs win, the Chiefs get the first spot over the Broncos. And if Cincy wins, they would get that spot over the Chiefs, meaning that the Chiefs would get the second spot over the Broncos, leaving the Broncos out.

But the way I see it, head-to-head is the first tie breaker. So if all of these teams are lumped together, the Chiefs are knocked out because they lost to Cincy, and that would give the Broncos the playoff spot because they would have the best conference record out of the remaining team.

I don't know, maybe I'm right here, or maybe there is something that I'm missing.

Ah, just go out and beat the damn Niners.

LordHelmchen · 12-31-2006, 12:32 PM

http://www.superbowl.com/playoffs/features/seeding/afc

nope, if the Broncos lose and the Chiefs win, the Broncos are out .. no matter what

ludo21 · 12-31-2006, 12:34 PM

yea, its retarded, thats why i love controlling our own destiny.

Jason in LA · 12-31-2006, 12:38 PM

So what's the explaination for that? If head-to-head is the first tie breaker, wouldn't the Chiefs be out because they lost to Cincy?

ludo21 · 12-31-2006, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason in LA

So what's the explaination for that? If head-to-head is the first tie breaker, wouldn't the Chiefs be out because they lost to Cincy?

they are trying to get the chiefs in caz hunt died

400HZ · 12-31-2006, 12:43 PM

You obviously can't go by head to head matchups if it's a 3+ way tie.

BMF Bronco · 12-31-2006, 12:47 PM

**** it all, just beat the 9ers!

Broncojef · 12-31-2006, 12:52 PM

If we can't beat the 9ers at home we have no business being in the play-offs

Jason in LA · 12-31-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400HZ

You obviously can't go by head to head matchups if it's a 3+ way tie.

Then why can they go by a divisional records when there are teams from different divisions?

The way it's been explained, they look at the top possible playoff spot, then eliminate teams based on the tie breakers. The Chiefs eliminate the Broncos because of a better division record. When they get one team, they start the process over for the next playoff spot (that's if both playoff spots are up for grabs).

The way I see it, head-to-head is the first tie breaker. So in the group of teams, Cincy eliminates KC for the top playoff spot because of the head-to-head match up. Out of the remaining teams the Broncos would be the leader because they have the best conference record and would not have lost to any of the other teams.

BMF Bronco · 12-31-2006, 12:57 PM

precisely!

Jason in LA · 12-31-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400HZ

You obviously can't go by head to head matchups if it's a 3+ way tie.

If two teams have played each other, the winner eliminates the other team. Then out of the remaining two teams they start the tie breaker process over again.

That's the way I understand it.

watermock · 12-31-2006, 01:05 PM

They will have alot of this cleared up by kickoff.

MrPeepers · 12-31-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broncojef

If we can't beat the 9ers at home we have no business being in the play-offs

true, and the chiefs have never had business in the playoffs.

GonzoLays · 12-31-2006, 01:10 PM

This is the way it should work for tiebreakers:

First tiebreaker: Head to head match up
Second tiebreaker: Conference record
Third Tiebreaker: Division record (regardless if they are in the same division or not)
Fourth Tiebreaker: Total points scored-Total points given up

Makes sense to me and seems a lot less confusing then the system they currently have.

Man-Goblin · 12-31-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoLays

This is the way it should work for tiebreakers:

First tiebreaker: Head to head match up
Second tiebreaker: Conference record
Third Tiebreaker: Division record (regardless if they are in the same division or not)
Fourth Tiebreaker: Total points scored-Total points given up

Makes sense to me and seems a lot less confusing then the system they currently have.

Edit, nevermind! just saw the sig bet thread.

Bronx33 · 12-31-2006, 01:18 PM

Denver clinches a playoff berth with:

1) DEN win or tie, OR
2) KC loss or tie

Kansas City clinches a playoff berth with:

1) KC win + CIN loss or tie + DEN loss + TEN loss or tie

Dagmar · 12-31-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broncojef

If we can't beat the 9ers at home we have no business being in the play-offs

BINGO!

Jason in LA · 12-31-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broncojef

If we can't beat the 9ers at home we have no business being in the play-offs

Even though that is true, it's besides the point. I like to have the knowledge of how certain things work. That's why I posed the question. Chances are all this won't matter because the Broncos are more than likely going to win today. But I still want to know how this whole thing works.

Cito Pelon · 12-31-2006, 01:51 PM

http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakers

NFL Tiebreaking Procedures
(March 20, 2002) -- With the NFL realigning into eight four-team divisions to accommodate the arrival of the Houston Texans, the league adopted new tiebreaking rules.

Common opponents will now be the third tiebreaker within a division after head-to-head games and division record because each of the four teams will have 14 common games in the 16-game schedule. The owners also moved the strength-of-victory tiebreaker ahead of the strength-of-schedule tiebreaker.

The six postseason participants from each conference will now be seeded as follows:
1. The division champion with the best record.
2. The division champion with the second-best record.
3. The division champion with the third-best record.
4. The division champion with the fourth-best record.
5. The Wild Card club with the best record.
6. The Wild Card club with the second-best record.

The following procedures will be used to break standings ties for postseason playoffs and to determine regular-season schedules.
NOTE: Tie games count as one-half win and one-half loss for both clubs.

TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION
If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.

Two Clubs
1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in common games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.

Three or More Clubs
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated during any step, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of the two-club format).
1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in common games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.

TO BREAK A TIE FOR THE WILD-CARD TEAM
If it is necessary to break ties to determine the two Wild-Card clubs from each conference, the following steps will be taken.
1. If the tied clubs are from the same division, apply division tie breaker.
2. If the tied clubs are from different divisions, apply the following steps.

Two Clubs
1. Head-to-head, if applicable.
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
4. Strength of victory.
5. Strength of schedule.
6. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
7. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best net points in conference games.
9. Best net points in all games.
10. Best net touchdowns in all games.
11. Coin toss.

Three or More Clubs
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)
1. Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.
2. Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in conference games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.
12. Coin toss

When the first Wild-Card team has been identified, the procedure is repeated to name the second Wild-Card, i.e., eliminate all but the highest-ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. In situations where three or more teams from the same division are involved in the procedure, the original seeding of the teams remains the same for subsequent applications of the tie breaker if the top-ranked team in that division qualifies for a Wild-Card berth.

OTHER TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURES
1. Only one club advances to the playoffs in any tie-breaking step. Remaining tied clubs revert to the first step of the applicable division or Wild-Card tie breakers. As an example, if two clubs remain tied in any tie-breaker step after all other clubs have been eliminated, the procedure reverts to step one of the two-club format to determine the winner. When one club wins the tie breaker, all other clubs revert to step 1 of the applicable two-club or three-club format.
2. In comparing division and conference records or records against common opponents among tied teams, the best won-lost-tied percentage is the deciding factor since teams may have played an unequal number of games.
3. To determine home-field priority among division titlists, apply Wild-Card tie breakers.
4. To determine home-field priority for Wild-Card qualifiers, apply division tie breakers (if teams are from the same division) or Wild-Card tie breakers (if teams are from different ivisions).

TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURE FOR SELECTION MEETING
If two or more clubs are tied in the selection order, the strength-of-schedule tie breaker is applied, subject to the following exceptions for playoff clubs:

1. The Super Bowl winner is last and the Super Bowl loser next-to-last.
2. Any non-Super Bowl playoff club involved in a tie shall be assigned priority within its segment below that of non-playoff clubs and in the order that the playoff clubs exited from the playoffs. Thus, within a tied segment a playoff club that loses in the Wild-Card game will have priority over a playoff club that loses in the Divisional playoff game, which in turn will have priority over a club that loses in the Conference Championship game. If two tied clubs exited the playoffs in the same round, the tie is broken by strength of schedule.

If any ties cannot be broken by strength of schedule, the divisional or conference tie breakers, whichever are applicable, are applied. Any ties that still exist are broken by a coin flip.

Have fun.

Cito Pelon · 12-31-2006, 01:54 PM

Because KC has beaten the Broncs by more points head to head, KC is in with identical records. Cincy needs both the Broncs and KC to lose, I guess. Hell, I don't know. I'll just wait it out.

houghtam · 12-31-2006, 01:58 PM

If KC wins and Denver loses, we're eliminated because KC has 4 division wins to our 3. Then it's KC vs. the rest of the 9-7 field, and KC loses out. In that scenario, the most likely teams in the playoffs are the Jets and Cincinnati.

Jason in LA · 12-31-2006, 01:59 PM

Well that clears it all up, even though I don't agree with all of the steps.

azbroncfan · 12-31-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400HZ

You obviously can't go by head to head matchups if it's a 3+ way tie.

The first tiebreaker is between divisional regardless if it is 1 team or 32. Bottomline and I don't know why so hard to understand, Denver CANNOT I mean CANNOT tie KC and make the playoffs. In a 3,4 or 5 way scenerio, KC eliminates Denver and KC's poor AFC record eliminates them.

Jason in LA · 12-31-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azbroncfan

Bottomline and I don't know why so hard to understand, Denver CANNOT I mean CANNOT tie KC and make the playoffs. In a 3,4 or 5 way scenerio, KC eliminates Denver and KC's poor AFC record eliminates them.

It's just figuring out all the steps that makes it that way.

smalltowngrll · 12-31-2006, 03:08 PM

Ok...so, the way it looks right now...

Cincy loss, KC win, NY win...

Denver still HAS to win to get in, right?

Either way, I want a win! I just want to know if we have it clinched prior to game time or not.

12-31-2006, 12:20 PM	#1
Jason in LA Gimmie that rep fool! Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: LA Posts: 12,252	If Cincy wins, are the Broncos in? This tie breaker thing is becoming very confusing, so I decided to throw another wrench in the thing. I'm looking at the standings, and it appears that if Cincy wins, the Broncos are in, even with a loss. If there are a bunch of teams at 9-7 it has been said that the Chiefs hold the advantage over the Broncos because of the division record. Which I don't think makes much sense. A division record to settle a conference playoff spot doesn't make sense, but that's how it is. So the logic is that if the Broncos fall to 9-7, and the Cheifs win, the Chiefs get the first spot over the Broncos. And if Cincy wins, they would get that spot over the Chiefs, meaning that the Chiefs would get the second spot over the Broncos, leaving the Broncos out. But the way I see it, head-to-head is the first tie breaker. So if all of these teams are lumped together, the Chiefs are knocked out because they lost to Cincy, and that would give the Broncos the playoff spot because they would have the best conference record out of the remaining team. I don't know, maybe I'm right here, or maybe there is something that I'm missing. Ah, just go out and beat the damn Niners.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

12-31-2006, 12:32 PM	#2
LordHelmchen Single-Malt Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Stuttgart Posts: 1,064	http://www.superbowl.com/playoffs/features/seeding/afc nope, if the Broncos lose and the Chiefs win, the Broncos are out .. no matter what

12-31-2006, 12:34 PM	#3
ludo21 RIP Darrent Williams Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 17,898 Adopt-a-Bronco: Paul Ernster	yea, its retarded, thats why i love controlling our own destiny.

12-31-2006, 12:38 PM	#4
Jason in LA Gimmie that rep fool! Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: LA Posts: 12,252	So what's the explaination for that? If head-to-head is the first tie breaker, wouldn't the Chiefs be out because they lost to Cincy?

12-31-2006, 12:43 PM	#6
400HZ Ring of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,342 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ed Hochuli	You obviously can't go by head to head matchups if it's a 3+ way tie.

12-31-2006, 12:47 PM	#7
BMF Bronco Offseason sucks... Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bozeman, MT Posts: 11,724 Adopt-a-Bronco: ME	**** it all, just beat the 9ers!

12-31-2006, 12:52 PM	#8
Broncojef Ring of Famer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Great White North Posts: 3,019	If we can't beat the 9ers at home we have no business being in the play-offs

12-31-2006, 12:57 PM	#10
BMF Bronco Offseason sucks... Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bozeman, MT Posts: 11,724 Adopt-a-Bronco: ME	precisely!

12-31-2006, 01:05 PM	#12
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	They will have alot of this cleared up by kickoff.

12-31-2006, 01:10 PM	#14
GonzoLays Five Tool Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,650 Adopt-a-Bronco: #3 DJ	This is the way it should work for tiebreakers: First tiebreaker: Head to head match up Second tiebreaker: Conference record Third Tiebreaker: Division record (regardless if they are in the same division or not) Fourth Tiebreaker: Total points scored-Total points given up Makes sense to me and seems a lot less confusing then the system they currently have.

12-31-2006, 01:18 PM	#16
Bronx33 lets go partner Rumpson Rocks Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Lakewood,Colo Posts: 41,221 Adopt-a-Bronco: Woodyard	Denver clinches a playoff berth with: 1) DEN win or tie, OR 2) KC loss or tie Kansas City clinches a playoff berth with: 1) KC win + CIN loss or tie + DEN loss + TEN loss or tie

12-31-2006, 01:51 PM	#19
Cito Pelon Attack at all times . . . Happy dog at the Divide Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: AFC West Championshipville Posts: 15,192 Adopt-a-Bronco: Elvis	http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakers NFL Tiebreaking Procedures (March 20, 2002) -- With the NFL realigning into eight four-team divisions to accommodate the arrival of the Houston Texans, the league adopted new tiebreaking rules. Common opponents will now be the third tiebreaker within a division after head-to-head games and division record because each of the four teams will have 14 common games in the 16-game schedule. The owners also moved the strength-of-victory tiebreaker ahead of the strength-of-schedule tiebreaker. The six postseason participants from each conference will now be seeded as follows: 1. The division champion with the best record. 2. The division champion with the second-best record. 3. The division champion with the third-best record. 4. The division champion with the fourth-best record. 5. The Wild Card club with the best record. 6. The Wild Card club with the second-best record. The following procedures will be used to break standings ties for postseason playoffs and to determine regular-season schedules. NOTE: Tie games count as one-half win and one-half loss for both clubs. TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined. Two Clubs 1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs). 2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division. 3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games. 4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference. 5. Strength of victory. 6. Strength of schedule. 7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed. 8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed. 9. Best net points in common games. 10. Best net points in all games. 11. Best net touchdowns in all games. Three or More Clubs (Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated during any step, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of the two-club format). 1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs). 2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division. 3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games. 4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference. 5. Strength of victory. 6. Strength of schedule. 7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed. 8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed. 9. Best net points in common games. 10. Best net points in all games. 11. Best net touchdowns in all games. TO BREAK A TIE FOR THE WILD-CARD TEAM If it is necessary to break ties to determine the two Wild-Card clubs from each conference, the following steps will be taken. 1. If the tied clubs are from the same division, apply division tie breaker. 2. If the tied clubs are from different divisions, apply the following steps. Two Clubs 1. Head-to-head, if applicable. 2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference. 3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four. 4. Strength of victory. 5. Strength of schedule. 6. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed. 7. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed. 8. Best net points in conference games. 9. Best net points in all games. 10. Best net touchdowns in all games. 11. Coin toss. Three or More Clubs (Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.) 1. Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants. 2. Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.) 3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference. 4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four. 5. Strength of victory. 6. Strength of schedule. 7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed. 8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed. 9. Best net points in conference games. 10. Best net points in all games. 11. Best net touchdowns in all games. 12. Coin toss When the first Wild-Card team has been identified, the procedure is repeated to name the second Wild-Card, i.e., eliminate all but the highest-ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. In situations where three or more teams from the same division are involved in the procedure, the original seeding of the teams remains the same for subsequent applications of the tie breaker if the top-ranked team in that division qualifies for a Wild-Card berth. OTHER TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURES 1. Only one club advances to the playoffs in any tie-breaking step. Remaining tied clubs revert to the first step of the applicable division or Wild-Card tie breakers. As an example, if two clubs remain tied in any tie-breaker step after all other clubs have been eliminated, the procedure reverts to step one of the two-club format to determine the winner. When one club wins the tie breaker, all other clubs revert to step 1 of the applicable two-club or three-club format. 2. In comparing division and conference records or records against common opponents among tied teams, the best won-lost-tied percentage is the deciding factor since teams may have played an unequal number of games. 3. To determine home-field priority among division titlists, apply Wild-Card tie breakers. 4. To determine home-field priority for Wild-Card qualifiers, apply division tie breakers (if teams are from the same division) or Wild-Card tie breakers (if teams are from different ivisions). TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURE FOR SELECTION MEETING If two or more clubs are tied in the selection order, the strength-of-schedule tie breaker is applied, subject to the following exceptions for playoff clubs: 1. The Super Bowl winner is last and the Super Bowl loser next-to-last. 2. Any non-Super Bowl playoff club involved in a tie shall be assigned priority within its segment below that of non-playoff clubs and in the order that the playoff clubs exited from the playoffs. Thus, within a tied segment a playoff club that loses in the Wild-Card game will have priority over a playoff club that loses in the Divisional playoff game, which in turn will have priority over a club that loses in the Conference Championship game. If two tied clubs exited the playoffs in the same round, the tie is broken by strength of schedule. If any ties cannot be broken by strength of schedule, the divisional or conference tie breakers, whichever are applicable, are applied. Any ties that still exist are broken by a coin flip. Have fun.

12-31-2006, 01:54 PM	#20
Cito Pelon Attack at all times . . . Happy dog at the Divide Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: AFC West Championshipville Posts: 15,192 Adopt-a-Bronco: Elvis	Because KC has beaten the Broncs by more points head to head, KC is in with identical records. Cincy needs both the Broncs and KC to lose, I guess. Hell, I don't know. I'll just wait it out.

12-31-2006, 01:58 PM	#21
houghtam WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION MethWolfeAlliance Member #11001001 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Lansing, MI Posts: 5,010 Adopt-a-Bronco: Demon Eagles	If KC wins and Denver loses, we're eliminated because KC has 4 division wins to our 3. Then it's KC vs. the rest of the 9-7 field, and KC loses out. In that scenario, the most likely teams in the playoffs are the Jets and Cincinnati.

12-31-2006, 01:59 PM	#22
Jason in LA Gimmie that rep fool! Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: LA Posts: 12,252	Well that clears it all up, even though I don't agree with all of the steps.

12-31-2006, 03:08 PM	#25
smalltowngrll Orange Blue Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bend, OR Posts: 8,038 Adopt-a-Bronco: dortoh	Ok...so, the way it looks right now... Cincy loss, KC win, NY win... Denver still HAS to win to get in, right? Either way, I want a win! I just want to know if we have it clinched prior to game time or not.