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Old 12-19-2006, 01:51 PM   #51
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Just to look on the bright side:

Maybe the suspension will drop the team into the lottery, and we end up with Greg Oden!
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Old 12-19-2006, 10:06 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
Your hockey comparison is terrible and you sound like someone who knows very little about the sport besides the fighting aspect. Basketball wouldn't be considered a league full of thugs (and I'm not saying it is) if guys squared off on a regular basis and it was an accepted part of the game, i.e. no suspensions when there is a fight. That's where your hockey comparison is so weak. It's a part of the game. Guys aren't automatically suspended just because they dropped their gloves like they are in basketball. That has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with what is an accepted part of each sport.
I played hockey 3 years thanks anyways.

My point...that Rhymes actually makes far better...

Is why the hand wringing over a couple knuckleheads that happen to play basketball??

Fine hockey is some altar of the gods...whatever.

Baseball has just as involved "melee's" as anything we've seen in the NBA but you don't have media or talking heads, or message board posts proclaiming the Cubs or Yanks or whoever as a bunch of thugs for it. I don't see any Chicago Thuggs posts.

But whatever. I clearly hit a nerve about hockey. I apologize I guess. I still think the microscope on the "thuggishness" of the NBA is racially fueled.
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Old 12-19-2006, 11:48 PM   #53
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If you think you hit a nerve, keep telling yourself that. Since you've played hockey, I now think even less of your argument since it is so shallow with regards to hockey. It makes you look like you're just throwing any comparison out there, no matter how tenuous the similarities are, in order to make your argument look strong through the number of examples you've used. Hockey doesn't deserve to be in the discussion when there isn't an automatic suspension for dropping gloves. Once Melo took a swing, there was an automatic suspension. See the difference? That's why no one bats an eye after a hockey fight. Race doesn't have anything to do with that.

Woody Paige agrees with your premise that race is the reason some view the NBA is thuggish.
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:56 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post
Baseball has just as involved "melee's" as anything we've seen in the NBA but you don't have media or talking heads, or message board posts proclaiming the Cubs or Yanks or whoever as a bunch of thugs for it. I don't see any Chicago Thuggs posts.
How about Michael Barrett decking AJ Pierzynski?



Now that was a sucker punch that ignited a bench clearing incident, yet no one is calling Barrett a disgrace or talking about what he did giving his sport a black eye. So why exactly is that? Baseball supposedly is against fighting, so it can't be written off as part of the culture as it is in hockey.

Is it because Michael Barrett is white and doesn't have corn rows and tattoos? It certainly makes you wonder.

Oh yeah, Barrett got 10 games for that punch as opposed to Carmelo's 15.
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:36 PM   #55
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How about Michael Barrett decking AJ Pierzynski?



Now that was a sucker punch that ignited a bench clearing incident, yet no one is calling Barrett a disgrace or talking about what he did giving his sport a black eye. So why exactly is that? Baseball supposedly is against fighting, so it can't be written off as part of the culture as it is in hockey.

Is it because Michael Barrett is white and doesn't have corn rows and tattoos? It certainly makes you wonder.

Oh yeah, Barrett got 10 games for that punch as opposed to Carmelo's 15.

Uh...that's my point.

From the tone of your post you seem to be disagreeing with me, but that pic and the supplemental info on his suspensions directly supports my contention that somehow baseball gets a free pass (no "Thuggs", no "what kind of role model are these punks?" type inquires), but god forbid an NBA player does the same.

Are you agreeing with me then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
If you think you hit a nerve, keep telling yourself that. Since you've played hockey, I now think even less of your argument since it is so shallow with regards to hockey. It makes you look like you're just throwing any comparison out there, no matter how tenuous the similarities are, in order to make your argument look strong through the number of examples you've used. Hockey doesn't deserve to be in the discussion when there isn't an automatic suspension for dropping gloves. Once Melo took a swing, there was an automatic suspension. See the difference? That's why no one bats an eye after a hockey fight. Race doesn't have anything to do with that.

Woody Paige agrees with your premise that race is the reason some view the NBA is thuggish.
Then where is the outcry about the above pic? Why aren't there posts decrying the thuggishness of baseball and how they aren't role models and all that?
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:39 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post
Uh...that's my point.

From the tone of your post you seem to be disagreeing with me, but that pic and the supplemental info on his suspensions directly supports my contention that somehow baseball gets a free pass (no "Thuggs", no "what kind of role model are these punks?" type inquires), but god forbid an NBA player does the same.

Are you agreeing with me then?
Yes, I was agreeing with you on the point about baseball players getting a free pass when incidents like this happen while basketball players get cast as thugs.

My post was just citing a specific instance.
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:49 PM   #57
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After my alma mater got into the brawl with Florida International I realized much of the criticism is racially motivated. ESPN spent an entire week trying to destroy the University of Miami. Woody Paige called for the program to shut down. I don't recall him saying that the Nuggets or Knicks should do the same.

Stuff like Thug U or the Denver Thuggets is what gets me. I never heard anyone call the Cubs the Chicago Thugs after what Michael Barrett or Kyle Farnsworth have done in the last few years.

As others have said, one on one fights are part of hockey. When people like Todd Bertuzzi in 2004 go way over the line it makes big news, but they're never called the names that the black athletes in football and basketball are.
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Old 12-20-2006, 05:54 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
If you think you hit a nerve, keep telling yourself that. Since you've played hockey, I now think even less of your argument since it is so shallow with regards to hockey. It makes you look like you're just throwing any comparison out there, no matter how tenuous the similarities are, in order to make your argument look strong through the number of examples you've used. Hockey doesn't deserve to be in the discussion when there isn't an automatic suspension for dropping gloves. Once Melo took a swing, there was an automatic suspension. See the difference? That's why no one bats an eye after a hockey fight. Race doesn't have anything to do with that.

Woody Paige agrees with your premise that race is the reason some view the NBA is thuggish.
Good grief, guy, rubiyat conceded the hockey comparison ten posts ago. Let it go. You are arguing with yourself here.
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Old 12-20-2006, 06:14 PM   #59
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Do we really need to get into all of this?

I think we ALL KNOW why the NBA is viewed differently, than say, baseball.

It is really not that difficult. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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Old 12-20-2006, 06:21 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
Race doesn't have anything to do with that.
I don't want this to get personal or anything, as I enjoy your posts Herc... But IMO it's pretty naive to think race has nothing to do with how the NBA is viewed, how something like this is covered, etc.
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Old 12-20-2006, 07:03 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Breck Bronc View Post
After my alma mater got into the brawl with Florida International I realized much of the criticism is racially motivated. ESPN spent an entire week trying to destroy the University of Miami. Woody Paige called for the program to shut down. I don't recall him saying that the Nuggets or Knicks should do the same.

Stuff like Thug U or the Denver Thuggets is what gets me. I never heard anyone call the Cubs the Chicago Thugs after what Michael Barrett or Kyle Farnsworth have done in the last few years.

As others have said, one on one fights are part of hockey. When people like Todd Bertuzzi in 2004 go way over the line it makes big news, but they're never called the names that the black athletes in football and basketball are.
Miami's brawl was awful, and what took the cake was the idiot move by that player who used ghetto brutality while on camera. This riot behavior is imitative of gang behavior. The association is an obvious one, and because it's a common sense association doesnt mean that there isnt any truth in it, because there is.

We all know the type. I played football with them. Our Bertuzzi was a crazy white guy that snapped, would lose all sense of awareness, and would scare onlookers because he did not feel remorse for extremely violent actions, such as stomping on a guy's face repeatedly while he was unconscious. Our Carmelo Anthony was a local gang member that was good at sports (when he played them), who would hang out with drug dealers and gangsters, and would get in fights often for various reasons.

These guys fit stereotypes that we build through personal experience. A stereotype like that is the way that you react with the world around you. One race of people is not composed entirely of people that fit these stereotypes. All white people arent serial killers or white trash and all black people arent gangsters, but some are, and those extremes are what we talk about because they evoke emotional reactions. When some half-minded goober like Bertuzzi or those Miami football players display the type of behavior that reinforces the stereotype, it's their own fault.
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Old 12-20-2006, 07:15 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breck Bronco
After my alma mater got into the brawl with Florida International I realized much of the criticism is racially motivated. ESPN spent an entire week trying to destroy the University of Miami. Woody Paige called for the program to shut down. I don't recall him saying that the Nuggets or Knicks should do the same.

Stuff like Thug U or the Denver Thuggets is what gets me. I never heard anyone call the Cubs the Chicago Thugs after what Michael Barrett or Kyle Farnsworth have done in the last few years.

As others have said, one on one fights are part of hockey. When people like Todd Bertuzzi in 2004 go way over the line it makes big news, but they're never called the names that the black athletes in football and basketball are.
Welcome to the real world, Brec Bronco.
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Old 12-20-2006, 11:02 PM   #63
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I don't want this to get personal or anything, as I enjoy your posts Herc... But IMO it's pretty naive to think race has nothing to do with how the NBA is viewed, how something like this is covered, etc.
What you quoted had nothing to do with how the NBA is perceived. Whether Melo is black, white, or any color of the rainbow, once he took a swing there was an automatic suspension coming.
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Old 12-20-2006, 11:06 PM   #64
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Then where is the outcry about the above pic? Why aren't there posts decrying the thuggishness of baseball and how they aren't role models and all that?
I could care less how baseball is perceived since it bores the hell out of me
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Old 12-21-2006, 12:07 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
What you quoted had nothing to do with how the NBA is perceived. Whether Melo is black, white, or any color of the rainbow, once he took a swing there was an automatic suspension coming.
We may be talking about two different things. I was talking about how the world percieves the NBA. I'm not upset by the suspension at all. Melo did the crime and he deserves it.

I guess my point is, the NBA is viewed as a collection of thugs, and IMO race has plenty to do with that.

Just look at this response to the AI thread:

Quote:
What sport is this in reference to? Oh. That's right. Gangstaball.
I removed the name because I didn't want it to seem like I was calling him out or bashing him without a chance to defend himself.

Why is it that NBA players are viewed as thugs, or why is it that when the NYC fight broke out, people just said "Well, that's thugs doing what they do."

It's just interesting to me that when guys in other sports do stuff like this, or get caught with guns, or whatever, it's not perceived as the whole league is that way.
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Old 12-21-2006, 01:26 AM   #66
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I'm not a basketball fan anymore. Used to be a long time ago, I just lost interest in it though.

I just wanted to chime in and say that I think the suspension is a bit on the unfair side. Seems too harsh when compared with other suspensions I looked up.

I agree he deserved the suspension, just not quite that many games. That Isiah is one big ol POS too. How they say they have no proof of his warning or that he did anything to merit suspension is beyond me. I'm not the most sage of lipreaders, but crap even I got that. I think the kids down at the Braille school might have even picked up on it.

Oh and just for the record:
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Fine hockey is some altar of the gods...whatever.
That's all you had to say.
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Old 12-21-2006, 01:56 AM   #67
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I'm not a basketball fan anymore. Used to be a long time ago, I just lost interest in it though.
I'm glad you said this, Mt. It always interests me to see what people say about basketball. If it's just not your thing, that's cool. For me personally, hockey isn't my thing, and I'm a very very very casual baseball fan at best. When people say they just don't like basketball, that's cool. I've heard people say they just don't like the NBA game, but love college. That's also cool.

What is really curious to me though, is that I've also heard people say that they used to like it before it became a league "full of rappers" or "full of thugs." That always gets my attention, because it makes me wonder why every black person with a few tattoos or God forbid cornrows is instantly a rapper, troublemaker, or gang member.

It just interests me to observe people's observations, whether they be conscious or subconscious.
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Old 12-21-2006, 02:01 AM   #68
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My lack of interest had nothing to do with thugs or whatnot. I don't have any problem with all the tats and stuff either. That kind of stuff really doesn't bother me too much. It was Jordan. I watched him from the second year of his pro career and when he called it quits, I was crushed. I watched until after his 'comeback' with the Wiz and that was it.

I guess that was kind of bandwaggonish of me, but I never had the love for the game like I do for football or hockey. So when my favorite up and left, I couldn't pick up someone else and put him in his place.

If I was a b-ball fan though, I'd be a Nuggs fan.
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Old 12-21-2006, 02:09 AM   #69
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I can imagine you're not the only one who feels like that. A lot of people were drawn to Jordan and lost interest when he retired. He was something amazing. I wonder what happens to the PGA once Tiger leaves the PGA tour? Because it seems to me that Tiger is having the same effect as Jordan did on the NBA.
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Old 12-21-2006, 02:13 AM   #70
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Yeah, I'd definitely agree with you there. How people can watch golf is beyond me, but to each his own.
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Old 12-21-2006, 03:32 PM   #71
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Just saw on the ticker on ESPN that Carmelo will not appeal his suspension, while JR Smith will appeal his.
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