Matsuzaka's coming, let the bidding begin - Page 2 - The Orange Mane

WABronco · 11-14-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApaOps5

Been a die-hard Red Sox fan since I was 6 years old. So here is my reason why they did that.

The only reason I think Boston bid for this guy was to snake him from the Yankees. He was coveted by the Yanks b/c they have abysmal pitching. So if the Sox can't negotiate a contract he stays in Japan. No matter what Boston keeps him out of NY. I think they treated this as their version of Johnny "Turncoat" Damon.

That's right, but it's not like they don't need him. Their rotation is in shambles right now, and they could use a solid no. 2/3 to slot behind Schilling.

theAPAOps5 · 11-14-2006, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WABronco

That's right, but it's not like they don't need him. Their rotation is in shambles right now, and they could use a solid no. 2/3 to slot behind Schilling.

Oh I totally agree. They need a solid 2/3 pitcher in the rotation. But the Biggest problem is keeping Tek healthy. When he went down our season was done. He is one of the greatest pitch selection catchers of his era, he worked so closely with pitching that he got the rotation going even when they were struggling. He is amazing!

Hercules Rockefeller · 11-14-2006, 10:04 PM

There's 2 reasons why they did this:
On-field: obvious
Off-field: You sign the guy, one of the most popular players in Japan is now on your team. Japan is a relatively untapped market for MLB, anyone believe any of these bidders didn't estimate how much more money they'll have coming back from Japan than before?

Pendejo · 11-14-2006, 10:21 PM

Saw this video on yahoo. Didn't see it posted. Apparently it's a video of Matsuzaka's "gyro" pitch.

http://www.rotoauthority.com/files/gyroballvideo.mpeg

Jens1893 · 11-15-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

That's just insane.

Why is that insane? Don´t you think it´s fair that, unlike hockey, a team that wants a player has to properly compensate the other team for allowing the player to get out of his contract? It´s a common thing here.

Smiling Assassin27 · 11-15-2006, 04:40 PM

Congrats on the next Hideki Irabu...

-Slap- · 11-15-2006, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApaOps5

Been a die-hard Red Sox fan since I was 6 years old. So here is my reason why they did that.

The only reason I think Boston bid for this guy was to snake him from the Yankees. He was coveted by the Yanks b/c they have abysmal pitching. So if the Sox can't negotiate a contract he stays in Japan. No matter what Boston keeps him out of NY. I think they treated this as their version of Johnny "Turncoat" Damon.

Many believe Boston placed a high bid to keep him out of New York, but they have no intention of actually signing him. There are provisions in place to ensure a "good faith effort" to sign him.

This has the potential to get very nasty.

Clockwork Orange · 11-15-2006, 10:44 PM

The Yankees will simply respond by throwing megabucks at Zito or Schmidt.

Clockwork Orange · 11-15-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens1893

Why is that insane? Don´t you think it´s fair that, unlike hockey, a team that wants a player has to properly compensate the other team for allowing the player to get out of his contract? It´s a common thing here.

Yes, I think that's insane. $51 million just for the right to negotiate with a player is ridiculous.

This wasn't about fair compensation, this was the Red Sox overcompensating because of their never ending case of penis envy when it comes to the Yankees.

Drek · 11-19-2006, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Slap-

Many believe Boston placed a high bid to keep him out of New York, but they have no intention of actually signing him. There are provisions in place to ensure a "good faith effort" to sign him.

This has the potential to get very nasty.

I doubt it, they have all the negotiating leverage and priced a 26 year old ace potential starter this summer by giving Beckett a 3 year, $30M deal. If they offer anything near that you can't make an argument for it not being a good faith bid as Beckett is the same age as Matsuzaka, was controlled for the same number of years as Matsuzaka has remaining commitment to Seibu, and has a World Series MVP to show for his early career.

I don't find it that hard to understand why they bid so high really. The Yankees claim to make $5M a year in Japan annually since signing Matsui, and thats not counting any profits YES makes over there. Boras claims his Japanese sources cite the Yankees true profits to be in the area of $21M annually. I'm sure Boras is largely blowing smoke, but if you consider a middle ground there the Sox could recoup their bid pretty easily.

The big questions for Matsuzaka's negotiations is the length and his FA status post-contract. By MLB rules new Japanese players are considered rookies their first year and must acquire standard MLB service time for free agency. Hideki Matsui was a free agent and so got the Yankees to stipulate in the contract that they would decline arbitration, but Ichiro has been with the Mariners for pretty low money largely as a result of not having service time waived in his deal.

Boras is asking for the moon if he wants both a large payday and arbitration waived, I don't see any way he gets both.

OrangeShadow · 11-19-2006, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

The Yankees will simply respond by throwing megabucks at Zito or Schmidt.

I didnt want zito anyway. a lefthanded flyball pitcher in fenway? no thanks

-Slap- · 11-19-2006, 07:04 PM

If Zito is going to leave Oakland, he would do well to relocate into the National League.

elsid13 · 11-22-2006, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeShadow

I didnt want zito anyway. a lefthanded flyball pitcher in fenway? no thanks

Not a problem if the pitcher works the ball away for hitters and let the ball go to right center and mid right field, there is lots of space out there. I remember Bruce Hurst being pretty effective that way. But of course that depend on who the heck the right fielder is. I expect that we miss Nixon more then Theo believes we will.

OrangeShadow · 11-28-2006, 02:02 PM

i dont know about nixon,i know he could play those angles better than a lot of players but he just doesnt stay healthy anymore and his power numbers were way down.
The move the sox should of made is signed gonzo but no,they have to pursue julio lugo

sox did make an offer to matsuzaka somewhere in the 3 years at 8 or 9 a year with mutial 1 or 2 year options at the end

-Slap- · 11-29-2006, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeShadow

sox did make an offer to matsuzaka somewhere in the 3 years at 8 or 9 a year with mutial 1 or 2 year options at the end

Boras' reaction:

OrangeShadow · 11-29-2006, 09:16 AM

well thats to bad,scott really doesnt have a lot of leverage here. Its not a good idea to take him back for another year in japan and he cant play teams off other teams so hes kind of limited

-Slap- · 11-29-2006, 10:26 AM

He's got all the leverage in the world.

The Red Sox only did this to take this kid off the market and away from the Yankees, hence the lowball offer. The Red Sox obviously didn't realize how slowly 30 days can pass. Its only day 13 and the media and sports radio in Boston are already starting to hammer them.

OrangeShadow · 11-29-2006, 10:33 AM

gammons said from the get go(and i agreed) it would go down tot he 29th day on the 23rd hour.

-Slap- · 11-29-2006, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeShadow

gammons said from the get go(and i agreed) it would go down tot he 29th day on the 23rd hour.

It will go past that because they have no interest in signing him.

All they're accomplishing now is tying up their money.

elsid13 · 11-29-2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Slap-

It will go past that because they have no interest in signing him.

All they're accomplishing now is tying up their money.

Actually I don't think so. Theo and the rest of the front office were attempt to rebuild the starting pitching staff for a while. And is Lester hadn't got cancer maybe this move is made just hack off the Yankees. Right now this is the kind of move that I can see them pulling off, especial after the disaster from last year.

Jens1893 · 12-13-2006, 02:04 PM

Looks like they have an agreement as he´s currently travelling to Boston together with Boras, Epstein and other Boston officials.

24champ · 12-13-2006, 02:38 PM

yeap

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6266048

elsid13 · 12-13-2006, 03:40 PM

Nice potential starting rotation. Still need a closer and middle relief. I can not believe they will go with Hanson as the closer right now.

OrangeShadow · 12-13-2006, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Slap-

It will go past that because they have no interest in signing him.

All they're accomplishing now is tying up their money.

howd that prediction work out for ya?

24champ · 12-13-2006, 08:19 PM

Um what is D-mat wearing? His girlfreind lend him a coat?

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11-14-2006, 10:04 PM	#28
Hercules Rockefeller Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 16,005 Adopt-a-Bronco: DJ Williams	There's 2 reasons why they did this: On-field: obvious Off-field: You sign the guy, one of the most popular players in Japan is now on your team. Japan is a relatively untapped market for MLB, anyone believe any of these bidders didn't estimate how much more money they'll have coming back from Japan than before?

11-14-2006, 10:21 PM	#29
Pendejo The off-season. Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,945 Adopt-a-Bronco: "The Greek"	Saw this video on yahoo. Didn't see it posted. Apparently it's a video of Matsuzaka's "gyro" pitch. http://www.rotoauthority.com/files/gyroballvideo.mpeg

11-15-2006, 04:40 PM	#31
Smiling Assassin27 STOP! KIPER TIME! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a van down by the river Posts: 10,955 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	Congrats on the next Hideki Irabu...

11-15-2006, 10:44 PM	#33
Clockwork Orange Persona Non Grata I seen him! Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,438	The Yankees will simply respond by throwing megabucks at Zito or Schmidt.

11-19-2006, 07:04 PM	#37
-Slap- Ring of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 31,895	If Zito is going to leave Oakland, he would do well to relocate into the National League.

11-28-2006, 02:02 PM	#39
OrangeShadow armed and dangerous Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,771	i dont know about nixon,i know he could play those angles better than a lot of players but he just doesnt stay healthy anymore and his power numbers were way down. The move the sox should of made is signed gonzo but no,they have to pursue julio lugo sox did make an offer to matsuzaka somewhere in the 3 years at 8 or 9 a year with mutial 1 or 2 year options at the end

11-29-2006, 09:16 AM	#41
OrangeShadow armed and dangerous Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,771	well thats to bad,scott really doesnt have a lot of leverage here. Its not a good idea to take him back for another year in japan and he cant play teams off other teams so hes kind of limited

11-29-2006, 10:26 AM	#42
-Slap- Ring of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 31,895	He's got all the leverage in the world. The Red Sox only did this to take this kid off the market and away from the Yankees, hence the lowball offer. The Red Sox obviously didn't realize how slowly 30 days can pass. Its only day 13 and the media and sports radio in Boston are already starting to hammer them.

11-29-2006, 10:33 AM	#43
OrangeShadow armed and dangerous Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,771	gammons said from the get go(and i agreed) it would go down tot he 29th day on the 23rd hour.

12-13-2006, 02:04 PM	#46
Jens1893 Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2001 Location: People´s Republic of Bad Cannstatt Posts: 9,170	Looks like they have an agreement as he´s currently travelling to Boston together with Boras, Epstein and other Boston officials.

12-13-2006, 02:38 PM	#47
24champ Livin' the dream! Methwolfe Alliance Captain Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 18,538 Adopt-a-Bronco: DomCasual	yeap http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6266048

12-13-2006, 03:40 PM	#48
elsid13 Lost In Space Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: DC Posts: 19,079	Nice potential starting rotation. Still need a closer and middle relief. I can not believe they will go with Hanson as the closer right now.

12-13-2006, 08:19 PM	#50
24champ Livin' the dream! Methwolfe Alliance Captain Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 18,538 Adopt-a-Bronco: DomCasual	Um what is D-mat wearing? His girlfreind lend him a coat?