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Old 07-10-2006, 03:28 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by Taco John
Yeah, can you show me a post where you stook up for him in the main forum when someone did that, or are you just bringing it up now? I can't remember the last time I got a complaint that someone attacked Mock. Seems everybody just accepts the fact that Mock made his bed, and now has to lie in it.

I don't care for the personal attacks, but I also don't care for Mock getting drunk and posting stupid stuff in the past creating the headache in the first place. People like Mock make headaches for Admins like me because he's a popular guy with people who either like him or hate him. When it gets out of control, I bring it up with the people who are getting out of hand. But Mock isn't getting attacked because of all of the sweet things he's said to people.

The bottom line is that my style of moderating is to give people enough rope to hang themselves. People will interpret that in different ways, and draw whatever conclusions about the effectiveness of it. I've found it to be particularly successful in my experience.
Your correct TJ Ive never complained to you when Mock is getting attacked just as I dont recall complaining to you ever. Like I said its your baby do what you want. Im sure if I was getting tons of PMs and other nasty grams over a sub-forum that was un-important to me I'd consider yanking it also. Im certainly not saying your wrong I simply think your over reacting.

Either way the season will be here soon and I wont be on the WRP forum much anyway.
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Old 07-10-2006, 06:13 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by amesj523
And what do you do to enable this behaviour?
Hammer, nail, head...as it were.
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Old 07-10-2006, 06:21 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27
I'll repeat what I said earlier a little differently this time. When you come in here, you have to pass a WARNING sign on the front door that ought to clue you in that this place is populated by...shall we say...somewhat less than civil human beings...and that you ought to be aware of the fact that nobody's in here baby sitting.
That's the best idea yet.
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Old 07-10-2006, 06:22 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27
TJ...there are two things that bug me about this; first, I just glanced at the main board a while back and noticed the thread about "sucking off the Cowbooys" is still up there. I don't get it...this is not vulgar? A reference to oral sex is sitting plain as day on the TITLE of a thread on the main site and instead you're focusing just on what goes on in here? What's up with that? I see tons of stuff, including a lot of these avitars of nearly nude porn stars...that are IMO... innappropriate...possible "vulgar", to use your word, especially given their context in plain view for what is supposed to be a sports forum, but yet the politics/religion thread is the one that's out of control? I'm not understanding that and wish you would explain it.

Second, if this board is out of control (I'm not sure it is) it's probably due to the rules YOU INSTITUTED. I keep mentioning this and it keeps getting ignored, but the sign on the front door says WARNING... in capital letters, followed by a statement that the reader should beware because this room is not policed in the same manner as the others. TJ...you're the one (I assume) who made the decision to characterize the board from the start as a place that's not moderated like the other forums, so why are you now trying to figure out why this board has departed from the (supposedly) more stringent standards set on the other forums. If people are in here causing a ruckus, it's because they were given permission for the idea to begin with that this was a place where that was OK. To come back later while the WARNING sign still hangs on the front door and pose the question about why there's vulgarity, etc...in here seems wierd to me. What did you expect when you invited people to enter into a place where it's noted ahead of time that nobody's really paying attention to what goes on in here? That doesn't make any sense.

Finally, maybe I'm one of the people you think are saying "it can't be done"...and therefore don't care...but in reality I like this site and don't want it shut down. I'm not so much opposed to standards, though I think they're probably less neccessary than you suggest...just DOUBLE standards. I'll bet if I search the other threads I'll find dozens...maybe hundreds...of posts where vulgarity and personal attacks are being launched. In fact the first time I posted on the OM it was about Mo Clarett being a punk and you jumped all over me for it with "idiot" and other personal attacks. I turned out to be right...but that's another story. Mainly, I just realized right there that the culture of the board permitted personal attacks. Having said that...I think that in general I've tried to remain above that stuff because I know it's not productive nor does it get your point accross, though there are a couple of instances that come to mind where I know I didn't exactly measure up to that standard either so I'm not saying I'm blameless either. Overall...I don't care for the personal attacks and vulgarity, but I think I care for the subjective censorship standards and vague references to certain problems creating a shut-down situation even less; especially when what is happening is going on everywhere else and when it's specifically been stated this forum is the place for this stuff.

If you wanted this forum to be civil, then the main board should be civil also, and the invitation to enter a freee-for-all hanging on the front door should be taken down. How do you expect me to see this changing, when the rules at the front gate plainly state that it won't?
Sorry TJ but he has a very valid point. An Excellent point to be exact.
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Old 07-10-2006, 06:45 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by amesj523
And what do you do to enable this behaviour?
I dont think I post often enough to enable anything. Nor do I call people names.
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Old 07-10-2006, 06:47 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27
TJ...there are two things that bug me about this; first, I just glanced at the main board a while back and noticed the thread about "sucking off the Cowbooys" is still up there. I don't get it...this is not vulgar? A reference to oral sex is sitting plain as day on the TITLE of a thread on the main site and instead you're focusing just on what goes on in here? What's up with that? I see tons of stuff, including a lot of these avitars of nearly nude porn stars...that are IMO... innappropriate...possible "vulgar", to use your word, especially given their context in plain view for what is supposed to be a sports forum, but yet the politics/religion thread is the one that's out of control? I'm not understanding that and wish you would explain it.

Second, if this board is out of control (I'm not sure it is) it's probably due to the rules YOU INSTITUTED. I keep mentioning this and it keeps getting ignored, but the sign on the front door says WARNING... in capital letters, followed by a statement that the reader should beware because this room is not policed in the same manner as the others. TJ...you're the one (I assume) who made the decision to characterize the board from the start as a place that's not moderated like the other forums, so why are you now trying to figure out why this board has departed from the (supposedly) more stringent standards set on the other forums. If people are in here causing a ruckus, it's because they were given permission for the idea to begin with that this was a place where that was OK. To come back later while the WARNING sign still hangs on the front door and pose the question about why there's vulgarity, etc...in here seems wierd to me. What did you expect when you invited people to enter into a place where it's noted ahead of time that nobody's really paying attention to what goes on in here? That doesn't make any sense.

Finally, maybe I'm one of the people you think are saying "it can't be done"...and therefore don't care...but in reality I like this site and don't want it shut down. I'm not so much opposed to standards, though I think they're probably less neccessary than you suggest...just DOUBLE standards. I'll bet if I search the other threads I'll find dozens...maybe hundreds...of posts where vulgarity and personal attacks are being launched. In fact the first time I posted on the OM it was about Mo Clarett being a punk and you jumped all over me for it with "idiot" and other personal attacks. I turned out to be right...but that's another story. Mainly, I just realized right there that the culture of the board permitted personal attacks. Having said that...I think that in general I've tried to remain above that stuff because I know it's not productive nor does it get your point accross, though there are a couple of instances that come to mind where I know I didn't exactly measure up to that standard either so I'm not saying I'm blameless either. Overall...I don't care for the personal attacks and vulgarity, but I think I care for the subjective censorship standards and vague references to certain problems creating a shut-down situation even less; especially when what is happening is going on everywhere else and when it's specifically been stated this forum is the place for this stuff.

If you wanted this forum to be civil, then the main board should be civil also, and the invitation to enter a freee-for-all hanging on the front door should be taken down. How do you expect me to see this changing, when the rules at the front gate plainly state that it won't?
Further evidence this thread never should have been started. It really didnt make sense from the start. Good points.
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Old 07-10-2006, 08:10 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Taco John

I'm sticking to my guns here. I reject the notion that the members of this forum don't bear some personal responsibility for the tone of this place. If you want this forum to survive, then I suggest you take a little pride in this place, and speak up when someone starts getting vulgar, regardless of politics. If you guys can't find it in you to show that you care on that basic level, then this forum is more of a distraction than it's worth and it's time to cut it from the healthy vine.

You still haven't defined what you mean by "vulgar."

What words or behaviors, specifically, are included in the definition?

Do you mean swearing? (I thought the auto filter took care of that.)

Do you mean pix of scantily-clad women?

The worst thing you can do, IMO, is to prescribe this sort of community/consensus decision making while leaving "vulgar" undefined (insofar as everyone has his or her own conception of what "vulgar" includes.)
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Old 07-10-2006, 08:11 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27
I'll repeat what I said earlier a little differently this time. When you come in here, you have to pass a WARNING sign on the front door that ought to clue you in that this place is populated by...shall we say...somewhat less than civil human beings...and that you ought to be aware of the fact that nobody's in here baby sitting.

Now suppose you stroll down the block one night and happen upon something that looks like this in your neighbors yard:



A smart chap might conclude that if he decides to hop the fence and poke Brutus in the eye with a stick he might get his butt chewed off. So if you decide to go ahead and do so anyway...are you going to ring the door bell and whine to the owner that his big doggie bit a chunk oughta your ***?

I think not.


Post of the year!
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Old 07-10-2006, 08:50 PM   #209
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Not to poopoo Footstep since I like the dude, but IIRC, didnt he get the hook for a month for posting a gay porn picture that had two political figures chopped in there? Cuz I'm just saying
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Old 07-10-2006, 08:53 PM   #210
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Problem is People bite off more then they can chew ......... then when it gets to rough , they run crying ........I dont hold back , you post somthing stupid , I will let you know .......but this Idea of People arguing politics should hold hands and suck up to each other , is a fairy tale ...........
Make your opinion defend it . if you cant oh well............
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Old 07-10-2006, 08:54 PM   #211
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Wow okay first of all I have developed a thick skin since at the club I work b/c the old old bridge ladies complain about everything. I have grown tougher b/c of it. I mean they complain about everything lettuce not being green enough or mustard not yellower enough. Also I notice if you complain every day and nite your complaints don't really amount to much. I say save your complaints until it is really really important and then TJ will listen. Also I tend to help those members that gave me a 100 dollars at Christmas time rather then the free loaders. So sad to say if you want to persaude TJ then donate a million bucks or else. . Seriously I try to live by the 24 hour rule if it still bothers me after 24 hours then I let who ever offended me know else I chalk it up to personal feelings. Also Pm the person and work it amongst ourselves not depend on a third party.
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Old 07-10-2006, 08:58 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbs1177
Wow okay first of all I have developed a thick skin since at the club I work b/c the old old bridge ladies complain about everything. I have grown tougher b/c of it. I mean they complain about everything lettuce not being green enough or mustard not yellower enough. Also I notice if you complain every day and nite your complaints don't really amount to much. I say save your complaints until it is really really important and then TJ will listen. Also I tend to help those members that gave me a 100 dollars at Christmas time rather then the free loaders. So sad to say if you want to persaude TJ then donate a million bucks or else. . Seriously I try to live by the 24 hour rule if it still bothers me after 24 hours then I let who ever offended me know else I chalk it up to personal feelings. Also Pm the person and work it amongst ourselves not depend on a third party.
What alot of people cant do is leave what goes on in the WRP , and go up top and talk ball ......... Even if Errand was up talking ball , I could talkl with him without getting into an argument ....... Down here not a chance in hell of that happening .....
you just have to put the fighting down here behind you when you go to the main forum .......
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:20 PM   #213
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People...

Quit b****ing about it. It's not going to do any good but piss of TJ more. It's obvious something happened or has been happening that pissed him off. He's made it clear he won't install new moderators for a full time basis and will rely on the forum to moderate itself. So the next time you see somebody being an a-hole, report their ass, and encourage others to ignore them and let the mods punish them. That simple. If it doesn't get them banned or punished on the main forum, then it won't here either. Act civil and all will be well...savy?

Adios.
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:26 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Rascal
It's obvious something happened or has been happening that pissed him off.
It puts us all at a disadvantage from the outset if we don't even know what it was that rubbed him the wrong way.

How are we supposed to avoid doing whatever it is if we don't even know what it is?
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:33 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pezman
Not to poopoo Footstep since I like the dude, but IIRC, didnt he get the hook for a month for posting a gay porn picture that had two political figures chopped in there? Cuz I'm just saying
Affirmed...though I argued (in vain) at the time that the pic in question was more cartoon than reality, but the point's certainly well taken...and further evidence that a certain sense of confusion and ambiguity exists, since I'm sure you'd agree that I'd not have done so had I been clear on the idea I was crossing a line that would get me banned.

Perhaps the hundreds of nearly nude porn stars, graphic references to oral sex, and liberal use of various "vulgar" words ranging from the "F" to the "P"...had me a bit dissoriented and uncertain about what was and was not deemed acceptable.

Hence, we return to LABF's request for more specific clarity, and I'm only to happy to serve as exhibit A on why such is needed.

Last edited by footstepsfrom#27; 07-10-2006 at 09:37 PM..
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:37 PM   #216
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It puts us all at a disadvantage from the outset if we don't even know what it was that rubbed him the wrong way.

How are we supposed to avoid doing whatever it is if we don't even know what it is?
No offense but it's pretty obvious what he is talking about. This entire thread is an example of what he is talking about IMO (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=43714).
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:39 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27
Affirmed...though I argued (in vain) at the time that the pic in question was more cartoon than reality, but the point's certainly well taken...and further evidence that a certain sense of confusion and ambiguity exists, since I'm sure you'd agree that I'd not have done so had I been clear on the idea I was crossing a line that would get me banned.

Perhaps the hundreds of nearly nude porn stars, graphic references to oral sex, and liberal use of various "vulgar" words ranging from the "F" to the "P"...had me a bit dissoriented and uncertain about what was and was not deemed acceptable.

Hence, we return to LABF's request for more specific clarity, and I'm only to happy to serve as exhibit A on why such is needed.
Turning off avatar's, sigs, and pictures is a good idea. IMO TJ needs to crack the whip on that but it's his call.
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:45 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Rascal
No offense but it's pretty obvious what he is talking about. This entire thread is an example of what he is talking about IMO (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=43714).
No, it isn't "obvious" insofar as everyone has his or her own idea of what is "offensive," "vulgar," etc.

It's a mistake to assume that everyone shares the same idea or understanding about such things.

Hence the need for specific guidelines.
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:48 PM   #219
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Well look at that thread...it's safe to say what happened there is just exactly what he is talking about.

I don't think TJ wants to have it written down in stone so that he can provide some leniancy to the mods and what not. You start down that path and soon you end up with that dolphins forum.
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:49 PM   #220
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No offense but it's pretty obvious what he is talking about. This entire thread is an example of what he is talking about IMO (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=43714).
Looking at the thread you linked here, I find some of the comments very distasteful (see comments about Cindy Sheehan) but I tolerated them in the interest of being consistent re: free speech. As disagreeable as I found these comments, I didn't run crying to Big Brother over them.
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:51 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal
No offense but it's pretty obvious what he is talking about. This entire thread is an example of what he is talking about IMO (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=43714).
I just finished the whole thread...and...that's it? I'm not seeing "vulgarity" there anywhere. Rudness? Sure. Caustic sarcasm? Absolutely.

So what?

Craig Ferguson is on right now...(dude is funny)...and he's saying stuff far more offensive. This thread is actually pretty tame. I don't think this is what TJ's talking about. Then again...I can't be sure.

That's the problem.
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:52 PM   #222
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We haven't felt this passoniate about something since mininium wage thread. I look at it as basically we are all grown up and can vote and drink. We all have had bad days and drunken state of minds. Shot have the time I can't believe some one hasn't called me a freaking idiot on some of the post I wrote while nursing a drink. I really truly don't want TJ to feel burden by running this forum board. If it gets to that point it isn't fun for him any more and becomes a chore. And then who knows he could shut the entire board down b/c it became too much to handle and compliants came every day and it felt like crap to go here any more. Okay that is my work. Let the arrows fly b/c they are coming. Only try not to take one fatally. Anyhow rambling aside. None should burden TJ with hurt feelings or other such riff raff stuff.
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:54 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN
Looking at the thread you linked here, I find some of the comments very distasteful (see comments about Cindy Sheehan) but I tolerated them in the interest of being consistent re: free speech. As disagreeable as I found these comments, I didn't run crying to Big Brother over them.
I don't think TJ cares about making insulting or crude comments to people outside the forum, but when the comments are made to posters it crosses the line.
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Old 07-10-2006, 10:04 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Rascal
People...

Quit b****ing about it. It's not going to do any good but piss of TJ more. It's obvious something happened or has been happening that pissed him off. He's made it clear he won't install new moderators for a full time basis and will rely on the forum to moderate itself. So the next time you see somebody being an a-hole, report their ass, and encourage others to ignore them and let the mods punish them. That simple. If it doesn't get them banned or punished on the main forum, then it won't here either. Act civil and all will be well...savy?

Adios.

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Old 07-10-2006, 10:05 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Rascal
I don't think TJ cares about making insulting or crude comments to people outside the forum, but when the comments are made to posters it crosses the line.
It seems to me that what you're speaking of dominates the entire board, and it's been that way since I've been in here. I see entire threads of nothing but unprovoked attacks on Bob, for example. Where was the outcry before now? Personally I don't think people on this board really care about personal attacks. I think most are used to them. There's something more than that in this, but we aren't being told what it is for some reason.
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