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Old 07-10-2006, 01:02 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan11
Bunk indeed.

I thought this Board was trying to be much more than just an online community, as the tailgates attest to. The Boards' rules are pretty clear to me.....to suggest that certain forums or individuals should be above them subverts them and renders them meaningless as a whole. It reduces the Mane to being just another board for internet tough guys....a total cliche.

Whatever....I'm beyond the "internet badass" thing..in fact, I find it to be rather childish, but I also understand that it's some people's form of "release"..so there you go. If the forum goes anarchist and the rules are selective, then fine by me......I'll roll with whatever happens but taking forum rules seriously? That will be a stretch and a half if this goes down like it apparently is.

I'm actually more appalled by people who live and breath the world according to others hogan. So those people who post here, who don't really formulate their own thoughts, and are unwilling to let the rigidness of their confined space become relaxed to see that it's all comprimise.

I understand that true enlightened anarchy will not happen as the status quo is presented in here in it's grandiose imagery.
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Old 07-10-2006, 01:10 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amesj523
I'm actually more appalled by people who live and breath the world according to others hogan. So those people who post here, who don't really formulate their own thoughts, and are unwilling to let the rigidness of their confined space become relaxed to see that it's all comprimise.

I understand that true enlightened anarchy will not happen as the status quo is presented in here in it's grandiose imagery.
When it comes to personal attacks.....rigidness of the forum rules shouldn't even be an issue.
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Old 07-10-2006, 01:16 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBuff
Slug seems a bit right-leaning, but I heartily second all three!

PLEASE don't shut it down, TJ ... I've learned a lot in here. (Albeit, mostly I've learned how to distinguish between BS and fact ... )
What are yu smoking?
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Old 07-10-2006, 01:22 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amesj523
TJ,

Beyond those of us who are 'stepping up'. (which IMO you are right and as noted has been stated by some of us - the overall point on those at fault, etc)

But if i may ask, since most of us are adults:


May i ask who is complaining (not nec. user names, but are they from 'both sides' - "all sides", etc?)? What are the nature complaints? Those people that are complaining, do they do behaviour that enables a retaliation that then offends them?


I'm more of a cultural psycologist - and i'm trying to get people to understand that the old saying 'for every action there is an equal reaction' applies to EVERYTHING -

Amesj believes in the laws of equivalent exchange.

I'm not going to single out people one way or the other.

But to comment on your question, the complaints that I get, almost always the root of the issue is with unecessary vulgarity. For the most part, people that complain about the vulgarity don't participate in it. (Though I have gotten a complaints before from a vulgar poster about their religion being attacked... Go figure.)

If you go to a park with your family and someone is being beligerent, vulgar, and generally disruptive, people step up to that person and let them know that their behaviour is out of line. Usually that works, but sometimes things escalate and it's necessary to call the cops. But if the people don't take measures against the beligerents, eventually the park turns into a haven for the beligerent.

The bottom line is, I believe that this community has the potential to function without the need for moderators, but instead by internal social interactions. Respect being one of the primary social factors.

Last edited by Taco John; 07-10-2006 at 01:26 PM..
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Old 07-10-2006, 01:22 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan11
When it comes to personal attacks.....rigidness of the forum rules shouldn't even be an issue.

Hogan i agree.

I know i get leway for my comments on certain things (i try to attack something 'more' than person though).

Just as i know certain posters of this board, i am not so civil with. Mostly due to my loss of paitience with their inability to really discuss, instead of peacocking around.
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Old 07-10-2006, 01:27 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
I'm not going to single out people one way or the other.

But to comment on your question, the complaints that I get, almost always the root of the issue is with unecessary vulgarity.

If you go to a park with your family and someone is being beligerent, vulgar, and generally disruptive, people step up to that person and let them know that their behaviour is out of line. Usually that works, but sometimes things escalate and it's necessary to call the cops. But if the people don't take measures against the beligerents, eventually the park turns into a haven for the beligerent.

The bottom line is, I believe that this community has the potential to function without the need for moderators, but instead by internal social interactions. Respect being one of the primary social factors.
TJ,

Note i wasn't asking for people's names. I just want to know if those that complain about vulgarity, are the ones that enable such?

I for one, know i can be very vulgar and probably have had complaints issued to you about my..... poetic use of words to attack various institutions/groups/etc.

I try to keep away from individuals, but again - equivalent exchange.

Just as those christians that may see that i don't really attack their religion any more so than they push on mine. Not to mention - i believe i've stood up for the 'right to believe in anything' - just as long as individuals mind the fact that my intellectual headspace is mine. No matter the reality they live in, i do not share the same.

But this goes for any and all - What you BELIEVE isn't real to someone else. I know it's so hard to understand. Don't PUSH, if you don't want to be PUSHED.

Last edited by alkemical; 07-10-2006 at 01:31 PM..
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Old 07-10-2006, 01:39 PM   #182
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This is starting to remind me of a time in grade school when they made us all sit in the gym and listen to some lady explain how to use the I statement. Maybe we could all just start using the "I" statement. That way nobody gets their feelings hurt. Heres how it works for those that dont know. Ill use LABF as an example.

"Look LABF I like your avatar but I dont care for it when you tell me I lick Bush's balls"

Now lets all hug and have some milk and cookies

Last edited by Hotrod; 07-10-2006 at 01:42 PM..
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Old 07-10-2006, 01:59 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by DBruleU
Yeah, but that effort will last all of 2 days, and then it's back to the same old WRP forum it always has been.

I guess it's up to each person. It might be like knowingly lying only to say you are forgiven the moment it's done, eh?

I know it's a dig - but i'm making an example here.

IMO this is a case of VOIDING responsibility to do the 'right' thing.
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:08 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crushaholic
There's a problem with this theory. Here, we aren't really solving any problems. We just hash and rehash the same arguments until someone does something that's the equivalent of crying "uncle".
Actually, I'm not so sure it's true that we don't solve any problems. I think it's true that people won't generally let it be known that they've reconsidered their position in the light of what an opponent is sayng, because ego tends to get in the way, but I've had a few people PM me and respond to things in a way I don't think they would on the public board. We don't always know what somebody's really thinking.
Quote:
Why does it have to be this way? Why can't people have a debate without resorting to namecalling just because they can hide behind a computer?
I can't really tell you "why" it's this way...nor am I suggesting it wouldn't be nice if people were more civil, but this is just the way it's always been. Can it change? Possibly...anything is possible. But are you expecting it to?

Last edited by footstepsfrom#27; 07-10-2006 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:09 PM   #185
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Wow! I was only gone since Thursday. What did you all do to piss off TJ like that? I do not feel that we should get rid of this forum, as it is useless for me to post on the main board most of the time when there are people like Mediator, Khan, Atlas, Meck, TJ, ... all the way to Bob (testing to see if you pay attention to the main board), who have great takes. I will chime in from time to time when I do not think I am being repetitive.

I do enjoy discussing different ideas with others on this board, whether or not we come down on the same side of the fence. I try never to be vulgar or obscene in any conversation I have. Slug and I had a real disagreement just last week and even though he still follows his misguided ways ( ), neither of us had to resort to anything more than trying to get our point across in a civil manner.
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:11 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
Look. I'm not going to burden anyone else with the job of being a mod here. That's not a desireable option at all. And Beerslug, calling me a hypocrite for doing my part and leading by example is amusing, but hardly valid.
Like I said before, you must have confused me with someone else.
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:15 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug
Like I said before, you must have confused me with someone else.


I did. My bad. It was BroncoBuff. *slap fore head*
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:23 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27
I can't really tell you "why" it's this way...nor am I suggesting it wouldn't be nice if people were more civil, but this is just the way it's always been. Can it change? Possibly...anything is possible. But are you expecting it to?



I am. I believe there is always positive change, if i didn't - i'd shoot myself in the head tomorrow - and that's not a joke.
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:27 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27
I can't really tell you "why" it's this way...nor am I suggesting it wouldn't be nice if people were more civil, but this is just the way it's always been. Can it change? Possibly...anything is possible. But are you expecting it to?
We can always strive towards that goal. Saying that it's the "way it's always been" is the equivalent of giving up on people being civil, IMO...
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:28 PM   #190
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So are we'll holding hands and singing Sweet Chariot yet?

People get over it. It very easy, stand up and treat folks on this section on the mane, like you want to be treated. Remember that rule they taught you in Kindergarten, it still applies. And I know that there enough good people on the board that we all understand that and can act that way.

Plus easy up on TJ, man got enough on his mind without people whining (first born). Heck he get enough of that from Popps on football, he doesnt need the rest of us on to pile on.
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:31 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Crushaholic
We can always strive towards that goal. Saying that it's the "way it's always been" is the equivalent of giving up on people being civil, IMO...

Exactamundo!
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:46 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by amesj523
Exactamundo!
screw you buddy!!!
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Old 07-10-2006, 02:49 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
The people saying "it can't be done," to me, are the people who dont care one way or another if this forum is around or not.

The people saying, "it starts with me," are the people I'm looking for here to step up. Nice to see some of them piping into the discussion. Those are the only people who will save this forum. Otherwise, it's not worth the headache. I'm not here to babysit, and I'm not going to appoint a babysitter in this forum and make them responsible for this mess.
TJ...there are two things that bug me about this; first, I just glanced at the main board a while back and noticed the thread about "sucking off the Cowbooys" is still up there. I don't get it...this is not vulgar? A reference to oral sex is sitting plain as day on the TITLE of a thread on the main site and instead you're focusing just on what goes on in here? What's up with that? I see tons of stuff, including a lot of these avitars of nearly nude porn stars...that are IMO... innappropriate...possible "vulgar", to use your word, especially given their context in plain view for what is supposed to be a sports forum, but yet the politics/religion thread is the one that's out of control? I'm not understanding that and wish you would explain it.

Second, if this board is out of control (I'm not sure it is) it's probably due to the rules YOU INSTITUTED. I keep mentioning this and it keeps getting ignored, but the sign on the front door says WARNING... in capital letters, followed by a statement that the reader should beware because this room is not policed in the same manner as the others. TJ...you're the one (I assume) who made the decision to characterize the board from the start as a place that's not moderated like the other forums, so why are you now trying to figure out why this board has departed from the (supposedly) more stringent standards set on the other forums. If people are in here causing a ruckus, it's because they were given permission for the idea to begin with that this was a place where that was OK. To come back later while the WARNING sign still hangs on the front door and pose the question about why there's vulgarity, etc...in here seems wierd to me. What did you expect when you invited people to enter into a place where it's noted ahead of time that nobody's really paying attention to what goes on in here? That doesn't make any sense.

Finally, maybe I'm one of the people you think are saying "it can't be done"...and therefore don't care...but in reality I like this site and don't want it shut down. I'm not so much opposed to standards, though I think they're probably less neccessary than you suggest...just DOUBLE standards. I'll bet if I search the other threads I'll find dozens...maybe hundreds...of posts where vulgarity and personal attacks are being launched. In fact the first time I posted on the OM it was about Mo Clarett being a punk and you jumped all over me for it with "idiot" and other personal attacks. I turned out to be right...but that's another story. Mainly, I just realized right there that the culture of the board permitted personal attacks. Having said that...I think that in general I've tried to remain above that stuff because I know it's not productive nor does it get your point accross, though there are a couple of instances that come to mind where I know I didn't exactly measure up to that standard either so I'm not saying I'm blameless either. Overall...I don't care for the personal attacks and vulgarity, but I think I care for the subjective censorship standards and vague references to certain problems creating a shut-down situation even less; especially when what is happening is going on everywhere else and when it's specifically been stated this forum is the place for this stuff.

If you wanted this forum to be civil, then the main board should be civil also, and the invitation to enter a freee-for-all hanging on the front door should be taken down. How do you expect me to see this changing, when the rules at the front gate plainly state that it won't?
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:05 PM   #194
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Very well put footsteps.

Im not going to defend Mock but talk about someone who gets pot shots taken at him at every turn. I lurk and post on every area of the mane and would say the main forum has some of the most hateful nasty posts on the whole site.
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:14 PM   #195
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Yup. It's posts like that which make me wonder why I bother with this subforum in the first place.

Ask everybody here, and everybody's got the answer. And every answer is different. I knew the minute that I brought it up, the fingers were going to start flying, and that I would get a fair share of them pointed at me.

I'm sticking to my guns here. I reject the notion that the members of this forum don't bear some personal responsibility for the tone of this place. If you want this forum to survive, then I suggest you take a little pride in this place, and speak up when someone starts getting vulgar, regardless of politics. If you guys can't find it in you to show that you care on that basic level, then this forum is more of a distraction than it's worth and it's time to cut it from the healthy vine.

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Old 07-10-2006, 03:17 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Mile High Shack
screw you buddy!!!

lol MHS -

I'm sure the dung ball i have to push in the next life is probably pretty big...
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:19 PM   #197
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So your just going to flat out reject footsteps points that there is atleast as much of the same thing on the main board

Im not trying to piss you off TJ but I disagree that this forum is much if any worse then some of the stuff that happens top side.

Its your board do what you wish but Im sticking to my guns that its not nearly as bad in the WRP forum as your making it out to be.

Im starting to think one or two people got their feelings hurt in an exchange and have been bugging Taco so much hes done with it. Is that close TJ
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:21 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Taco John
Yup. It's posts like that which make me wonder why I bother with this subforum in the first place.

Ask everybody here, and everybody's got the answer. And every answer is different. I knew the minute that I brought it up, the fingers were going to start flying, and that I would get a fair share of them pointed at me.

I'm sticking to my guns here. I reject the notion that the members of this forum don't bear some personal responsibility for the tone of this place. If you want this forum to survive, then I suggest you take a little pride in this place, and speak up when someone starts getting vulgar, regardless of politics. If you guys can't find it in you to show that you care on that basic level, then this forum is more of a distraction than it's worth and it's time to cut it from the healthy vine.


TJ,

I'm not saying you are wrong or right. But there are double standards that go on with this place, and i have benifitted from them (i'm sure).

the tenative points of vulgarity do exist on the WHOLE board.

I don't have the answers for everyone, only myself.

But i'm not blaming you for anything - but if you want a heavy handed approach make sure it isn't JUST on this part of your BBS.

~amesj
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:22 PM   #199
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Oh -

For those of you that get upset and ticked off.

Why not voice them? WHY don't you call people out? Are you afraid to speak out on your own?

If it's something really bad, PM me - i won't be able to 'punish' anyone - but i'd be willing to mediate. I am a gemani.
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Old 07-10-2006, 03:24 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotrod
Very well put footsteps.

Im not going to defend Mock but talk about someone who gets pot shots taken at him at every turn. I lurk and post on every area of the mane and would say the main forum has some of the most hateful nasty posts on the whole site.


Yeah, can you show me a post where you stook up for him in the main forum when someone did that, or are you just bringing it up now? I can't remember the last time I got a complaint that someone attacked Mock. Seems everybody just accepts the fact that Mock made his bed, and now has to lie in it.

I don't care for the personal attacks, but I also don't care for Mock getting drunk and posting stupid stuff in the past creating the headache in the first place. People like Mock make headaches for Admins like me because he's a popular guy with people who either like him or hate him. When it gets out of control, I bring it up with the people who are getting out of hand. But Mock isn't getting attacked because of all of the sweet things he's said to people.

The bottom line is that my style of moderating is to give people enough rope to hang themselves. People will interpret that in different ways, and draw whatever conclusions about the effectiveness of it. I've found it to be particularly successful in my experience.
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