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Old 05-30-2009, 12:11 PM   #1
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Crazy. 1st degree murder, anonymous bail. Kid was 16.
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:18 PM   #2
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Good for him. If more people did this there would be less crime IMO. I don't know anyone willing to rob a store if they know the guy behind the counter will shoot back.
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:23 PM   #3
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Good for him. If more people did this there would be less crime IMO. I don't know anyone willing to rob a store if they know the guy behind the counter will shoot back.
I don't know. The kid was unconscious on his back before being shot 5 more times. I think things would be different if he wasn't a minor. I bet the pharmacist is gonna get some time.
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:25 PM   #4
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I don't know. The kid was unconscious on his back before being shot 5 more times. I think things would be different if he wasn't a minor. I bet the pharmacist is gonna get some time.
I've seen quite a few 16 yr olds who look older than 18. It's not like he looked at the kids ID before pumping 5 more rounds into him.
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:28 PM   #5
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I've seen quite a few 16 yr olds who look older than 18. It's not like he looked at the kids ID before pumping 5 more rounds into him.
I'm just saying on technicality. The courts frown upon murdering 16 year olds, regardless of the situation. I'm not saying it's the clerks fault the kid was 16.
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:56 PM   #6
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I've seen quite a few 16 yr olds who look older than 18. It's not like he looked at the kids ID before pumping 5 more rounds into him.
I can attest to the truth of this... one of my 16-year-old twins is routinely presumed to be 19-20 because he's 6'2".
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:33 PM   #7
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I've seen quite a few 16 yr olds who look older than 18. It's not like he looked at the kids ID before pumping 5 more rounds into him.
it isnt the fact on his age on how he looked but the fact he was 16 as the story after the facts. Guy had every right to arm and protect himself but once the kid was down and doesnt show that he is trying to get up, 5 more shots to finish him off is going to get him some time. Personally, he helped all of us out from possibly being ambushed by this thug in a future date but he went overboard. The 1st degree murder charges are a stretch for the prosecution and he might walk just based on those charges. If they file manslaughter or lesser degree of murder, the guy would get convicted and spend a few years in prison. I hope he walks based on the attorney generals obvious try at scoring points with what he thinks is a simpathetic public. I think he will have a tough time prosecuting him with a jury of peers.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:45 PM   #8
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I think he will have a tough time prosecuting him with a jury of peers.
I wouldn't convict him
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Old 05-30-2009, 10:55 PM   #9
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I don't know. The kid was unconscious on his back before being shot 5 more times. I think things would be different if he wasn't a minor. I bet the pharmacist is gonna get some time.
I'm confused. If a cop had done this people excuse them because imagine the fear they felt and they are let off. Yet the pharmacist should have been examining the law at the time?
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Old 05-30-2009, 11:02 PM   #10
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I'm confused. If a cop had done this people excuse them because imagine the fear they felt and they are let off. Yet the pharmacist should have been examining the law at the time?
It's because the dude went got another gun, came back, and shot the guy execution style, point blank into the chest.

Hard to argue you were in fear. Better argument IMO is to try and say the robber was already dead from shot to head.

Otherwise that dude should have erased the film, lost the film, something.
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Old 05-31-2009, 06:32 AM   #11
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It's because the dude went got another gun, came back, and shot the guy execution style, point blank into the chest.

Hard to argue you were in fear. Better argument IMO is to try and say the robber was already dead from shot to head.

Otherwise that dude should have erased the film, lost the film, something.
4 cops fire 41 shots into an unarmed guy and they were in fear?

So if the medical examiner says the kids was still technically alive doesn't that play into "his life may have still been in danger"? All I'm saying is what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:34 AM   #12
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It's because the dude went got another gun, came back, and shot the guy execution style, point blank into the chest.

Hard to argue you were in fear. Better argument IMO is to try and say the robber was already dead from shot to head.

Otherwise that dude should have erased the film, lost the film, something.
4 cops fire 41 shots into an unarmed guy and they were in fear?

So if the medical examiner says the kids was still technically alive doesn't that play into "his life may have still been in danger"? All I'm saying is what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.
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Old 05-30-2009, 11:42 PM   #13
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I'm confused. If a cop had done this people excuse them because imagine the fear they felt and they are let off. Yet the pharmacist should have been examining the law at the time?
The sad thing is, a copy probably would get off. You don't need to "examine the law" to know what constitutes murder when a guy is lying motionless on the floor with a bullet in his head.

Suppose he'd waited 5 minutes...would that be murder? Or would he still be fearing for his life? What if he went to the ER and wasted him?

Common sense takes a vaction in here so frequently.
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:35 PM   #14
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I'm confused. If a cop had done this people excuse them because imagine the fear they felt and they are let off. Yet the pharmacist should have been examining the law at the time?
No, I'm saying it may be tried differently, and the community is going to have a much bigger reaction.

This should be murder according to OK state leg. I agree.
There was no presence of danger when the boy was shot the final 5 times.
I see why a lot of people think this clerk should get off, but whether or not you agree with what the man did, the law see this in black and white.
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:18 PM   #15
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No, I'm saying it may be tried differently, and the community is going to have a much bigger reaction.

This should be murder according to OK state leg. I agree.
There was no presence of danger when the boy was shot the final 5 times.
I see why a lot of people think this clerk should get off, but whether or not you agree with what the man did, the law see this in black and white.
I was saying earlier a good lawyer will convince prosecution he can make at least one person on the jury believe the kid was dead already. Then prosecution will look at likely jury pool and get the feeling some of these people will pull a jury nullification of the law and acquit.

In the end you would expect to see some sort of plea, with limited jail time. Just my opinion.
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:38 PM   #16
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Good for him. If more people did this there would be less crime IMO. I don't know anyone willing to rob a store if they know the guy behind the counter will shoot back.
If more people do what he did more shop attendants will get shot.
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:39 PM   #17
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If more people do what he did more shop attendants will get shot.
Ahh yes the "let the criminals go unchecked" arguement. Brilliant.
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Old 05-30-2009, 01:09 PM   #18
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Ahh yes the "let the criminals go unchecked" arguement. Brilliant.
Not an argument, a fact.
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Old 05-30-2009, 02:02 PM   #19
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Not an argument, a fact.
Only in your own fantasy land.
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Old 05-30-2009, 10:01 PM   #20
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If more people do what he did more shop attendants will get shot.
I dont think so. Convenience store workers and other folks at jeopardy in these types of crimes are injured or shot anyway.

This is a very unfortunate circumstance, but our pity for the loss of this young fool should not overshadow the situation that he put himself and the pharmacist in. The criminal created the situation, and the pharmacist's life was put in danger.

If you deny a person like this pharmacist the right to defend themself, you are essentially removing his right to protect himself from death as well as protect his family and his property.

The pharmacist went back to ensure that the criminal couldnt hurt him, and in his heightened state he may have gone overboard. But lets not miss the forest for the trees. This is not capital murder...it may be something else, but murder is not the right interpretation.
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Old 05-30-2009, 11:27 PM   #21
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If you deny a person like this pharmacist the right to defend themself, you are essentially removing his right to protect himself from death as well as protect his family and his property.

The pharmacist went back to ensure that the criminal couldnt hurt him, and in his heightened state he may have gone overboard. But lets not miss the forest for the trees. This is not capital murder...it may be something else, but murder is not the right interpretation.
Utter BS. I can't believe you'd even bring this in here.

First of all, nobody is "denying the right to defend himself". The OK law is clearly written that the use of deadly force is permissable when the individual's life is in jeaopardy and he's not being charged for shooting the kid the first time. What jeopardy did this 16 year old kid lying unconscious on the floor with a bullet in his head possibly present this man? Absolutely none. Second, he did not "go back to ensure he couldn't hurt him" as you suggest. In fact he calmly walked right past the kid, turned his back to him, took the time to find a 2nd gun, then stood over him while he lay motionless on the floor and fired 5 bullets into his stomach and chest. At what point during this process do you think this guy was fearing for his life? Was it when he looked down on the floor and saw him lying unconscious? Maybe it was when he calmly turned his back? Perhaps when he got to the 4th bullet and saw the bloody mess on the floor?

"May have gone overboard"...no, it isn't that he "may" have gone overboard. Under Oklahoma law he commited a murder. The DA is filing charges on him not because he "may have gone overboard". He killed a kid lying on the floor with a bullet in his head. What he should have done, is call 911 and tell them to come save this kid's life. Instead he willfully chose to pump 5 bullets into him. He deserves exactly what's coming to him, and yes...it's capital murder. If you watch this tape, it's obvious this was a deliberate act. He had more than enough time to think clearly about what was going on.

Unbelievable.
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Old 05-30-2009, 11:32 PM   #22
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Utter BS. I can't believe you'd even bring this in here.

First of all, nobody is "denying the right to defend himself". The OK law is clearly written that the use of deadly force is permissable when the individual's life is in jeaopardy and he's not being charged for shooting the kid the first time. What jeopardy did this 16 year old kid lying unconscious on the floor with a bullet in his head possibly present this man? Absolutely none. Second, he did not "go back to ensure he couldn't hurt him" as you suggest. In fact he calmly walked right past the kid, turned his back to him, took the time to find a 2nd gun, then stood over him while he lay motionless on the floor and fired 5 bullets into his stomach and chest. At what point during this process do you think this guy was fearing for his life? Was it when he looked down on the floor and saw him lying unconscious? Maybe it was when he calmly turned his back? Perhaps when he got to the 4th bullet and saw the bloody mess on the floor?

"May have gone overboard"...no, it isn't that he "may" have gone overboard. Under Oklahoma law he commited a murder. The DA is filing charges on him not because he "may have gone overboard". He killed a kid lying on the floor with a bullet in his head. What he should have done, is call 911 and tell them to come save this kid's life. Instead he willfully chose to pump 5 bullets into him. He deserves exactly what's coming to him, and yes...it's capital murder. If you watch this tape, it's obvious this was a deliberate act. He had more than enough time to think clearly about what was going on.

Unbelievable.
you make a strong case , but i think the Pharmacist history and standing in the community comes into play , Man3 with a felony on his record .........
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:21 PM   #23
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This doesnt have anything to do with that story , but it is vigilante related ....
I had a registered Sex Offender use my address as his place of residence , I didnt know anything about it ,until some guys came up in my drive way and started a bunch of **** , Needless to say they was easily scared off , Cops showed up , I told them what happened , one of Casper finest looked at me and said well how do you expect people to treat Child Molesters , I went after him , other cops restrained me , thats how I found out about the address on the net thing ......I got 6 kids and a wife and I am gone alot , I was scared for their safety , I went down to the police station and raised hell until my address was removed ........ So that is why Vigilante justice scares the piss out of me
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:24 PM   #24
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31003987/
Crazy. 1st degree murder, anonymous bail. Kid was 16.
Excessive use of force , I have been arrested for this when a guy tried to steal my Car when I lived in Ft.Collins , Once i stop the theft , my right to use force stopped also .........This is nothing new
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:26 PM   #25
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Excessive use of force , I have been arrested for this when a guy tried to steal my Car when I lived in Ft.Collins , Once i stop the theft , my right to use force stopped also .........This is nothing new
Why is it whenever someone posts a story about an assault Spider comes in with his own personal stories? Just saying....
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