1,900 Dead – And The Truth We Dare Not Speak

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

With the death of a soldier from the 56th Brigade Combat Team near Al Asad, Iraq on September 17, we have hit yet another cruel milestone in the Iraq war.

We now have 1,900 brave, military men and women dead. Fathers, mothers, husbands, wives, sons, daughters and friends who will never again breathe in their homeland or realize their dreams because of the hidden agendas, ideological policies and confirmed lies of the Bush administration.

As a Veteran, I understand the mindset of someone serving our country. Orders are to be followed without question, because failure to do so means a system of dependability, built on mutual trust and assurance, can no longer be guaranteed. In a time of war – and certainly in active combat – you need to know that your buddy has your back and that personal misgivings over the required action will not result in their hesitation and your death.

But the presumption underlying all of that has been the integrity, honesty and purity of purpose of the Executive and Legislative branches of our government – in other words, we trust that they know what's best and are doing what is required to keep us safe.

It is that assumption that brings bumper-sticker phrases to life and applies them to the very-real sacrifice of those we have lost in the Iraq war. It has become almost rote for us to say that the men and women we have lost died “fighting for our freedom” or to “keep us free.”

The truth we dare not speak is that those assertions are a lie.

They are a national balm, used to salve the ugly truth behind the deaths of these brave people who, in the ultimate act of good faith, lost their lives believing in rules that no longer seem to apply. They are empty phrases used by those wishing they were true or by political charlatans, hoping to mask one simple truth: That our countrymen who have perished in Iraq died for absolutely nothing.

I hate saying that. When you've worn the uniform, as I have, there's a bond that's never lost with those who have served in the past and those who are in the line of fire every day in Iraq. I want desperately for their sacrifice to be as worthwhile in reality as it is in their honorable and courageous intent. But it's simply not true.

The bipartisan 9/11 Commission and the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee all formally came to the same fundamental conclusions on the subject. They determined that Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on September 11, that they had no weapons of mass destruction and that Saddam Hussein had no links to Osama bin Laden or Al Qaeda. The official findings of our own government make it clear that we invaded another country for no reason.

I get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach every day when I hear the names of yet more Americans killed for nothing. They are dying in a country that did not attack us and that the indisputable proof now shows posed no threat whatsoever to the United States.

In one of the sickest bits of misrepresentation, George W. Bush and his crew walk around crowing about how we have brought democracy to Iraq, while the reality is that we are presiding over that country becoming a fully Islamic Republic, that will bring its citizens nothing resembling the democracy we say we have achieved.

So even the Bush administration's revisionist claims to have righteousness on our side in Iraq because we are delivering democracy to an oppressed people, turns out to also be false – which makes our human losses attributed to that end a waste as well.

At least the families of those killed in Afghanistan can take some solace in their loved ones having died going after the people who actually attacked our country four years ago. This is the one tiny bit of comfort that the families of our war dead have sometimes been able to feel – that their horrible loss was for a greater good, that moves our country forward and enables our way of life.

It is the ultimate cruelty that the families of those who have died in Iraq are cheated of even that.

While it may be a truth we hate to speak, it's the truth just the same.

http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/2005/0...not-speak.html

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

U.S. worries about the toll Iraq is taking, poll finds

NEW YORK Two and a half years into the war in Iraq, Americans are worried about the toll it is taking on the United States, both in the mounting casualties and the drain of resources needed at home. And although they anticipate a long, protracted American involvement, they say Iraq will never become a stable democracy, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News Poll.

The poll also suggested that there was widespread reluctance to make sacrifices to continue to pay for the mission in Iraq.

Ninety percent of those surveyed, including a majority of Republicans, disapprove of Washington cutting spending on domestic programs to pay for the war, almost 80 percent would not be willing to pay more in taxes and 55 percent disapprove of eliminating recent tax cuts to raise revenue.

And Americans say they are feeling the impact of the war on their communities, a sentiment that is more pronounced among blacks than whites.

A majority of all respondents said that the war in Iraq was having an impact on their communities - 27 percent eliminating recent tax cuts to raise revenue.

Full story:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/16/news/poll.php

[W*GS]

My question for you, LABF:

Do you want the US to fail in Iraq just to make you feel more righteous in your strident and endless condemnations of Bush?

[MistrSynistr]

Originally Posted by W*GS

My question for you, LABF:

Do you want the US to fail in Iraq just to make you feel more righteous in your strident and endless condemnations of Bush?

I've long given up trying to piece together how W*GS is a self-proclaimed atheist yet backs constantly a faith-based initiative propaganda machine like Bushco. To this day it still boggles my mind.

What I also fail to understand is when LABF comes in here and presents pretty damned head on factual information supporting what a sociopathic, indifferent, plotting, scheming crook Bush is, W*GS never comes up with a reason to defend the topic, but just smear post to make LABF look bad because some of his posts are highly condescending...which I shall admit. It's also hard to understand when the plate full of sh*t is being waved right under your nose, you never look around and finally admit "Holy sh*t, this plate smells like...looks like...well, sh*t!" It's just another excuse...after excuse...after excuse........but no information supporting it.

Excuses my friend, are like a-holes. We all got 'em, just some are more fulla sh*t than others.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by W*GS

My question for you, LABF:

Do you want the US to fail in Iraq just to make you feel more righteous in your strident and endless condemnations of Bush?

IMHO, the U.S. will fail in Iraq regardless of anyone's opinions on this board, or in Washington. The war was built on lies, proceeded on lies and continues to live on lies to this day. It's clever to blame the opposition for the multitude of failures of this incompetent president, but I assure you, history will sort out the true culprit. And it won't be those who already see the writing on the wall and are willing to speak it.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

IMHO, the U.S. will fail in Iraq regardless of anyone's opinions on this board, or in Washington. The war was built on lies, proceeded on lies and continues to live on lies to this day. It's clever to blame the opposition for the multitude of failures of this incompetent president, but I assure you, history will sort out the true culprit. And it won't be those who already see the writing on the wall and are willing to speak it.

When the O'W*GS factor continually spins facts presented re: Bush's illegal war (and the American public's view of that war) as "strident condemnation," etc., all he does is establish his place among the Kool-Aid drinking fringe minority who constitute Bush's hardcore base.

Rather than hold those who planned the war and those who sent our troops into harm's way accountable for these senseless, unnecessary deaths in Iraq, W*GS' twisted logic somehow compels him to blame those critics who urged BushCo not to invade Iraq in the first place. W*GS' thinking is truly warped.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

W*GS to the court-appointed pinhead's rescue - right on schedule.

[errand]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

W*GS to the court-appointed pinhead's rescue - right on schedule.

Ok, we get it, he's a shill for Bush...now answer his question.

If you truly can, that is................

[bendog]

What hurt, and bothers me, personally is that while driving on the interstate with my kid we pass a convoy of NG gas trucks heading back north to whatever state they came from. My kid says "one good thing about the hurricane is that it taught me these soldier guys do something other than fight all the time." She's only 10, and I've no doubt her perspective will broaden, but it made me sad to think that she and most of her friends have concluded that the military is at best useless to her and something bad inflicted upon others. We've come full circle back to 1976. Ronald Reagan should be turning in his grave. I left her statement alone, because she doesn't have the experience levels of the cold war or any other threat to national security aside from 9-11.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by bendog

What hurt, and bothers me, personally is that while driving on the interstate with my kid we pass a convoy of NG gas trucks heading back north to whatever state they came from. My kid says "one good thing about the hurricane is that it taught me these soldier guys do something other than fight all the time." She's only 10, and I've no doubt her perspective will broaden, but it made me sad to think that she and most of her friends have concluded that the military is at best useless to her and something bad inflicted upon others. We've come full circle back to 1976. Ronald Reagan should be turning in his grave. I left her statement alone, because she doesn't have the experience levels of the cold war or any other threat to national security aside from 9-11.

Sorry to hear that Ben...
It's unfortunate that the national media has been so irresponsible with this whole thing. They have no care about the impact that their irresponsible editorials will have on the future generations of citizens.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by angryllama

It's unfortunate that the national media has been so irresponsible with this whole thing. They have no care about the impact that their irresponsible editorials will have on the future generations of citizens.

It would be more accurate to say that future generations will be adversely impacted (in both human and economic terms) by the national media's willingness to play the role of uncritical cheerleader and to serve as the propaganda ministry for Bush's illegal war in Iraq.

[Rigs11]

Originally Posted by angryllama

Sorry to hear that Ben...
It's unfortunate that the national media has been so irresponsible with this whole thing. They have no care about the impact that their irresponsible editorials will have on the future generations of citizens.

The media is irresponisble? How about the administration?They're the ones that put those troops there. They are the ones who need to be held accountable for the impact on the future generations of citizens.

[bendog]

Originally Posted by angryllama

Sorry to hear that Ben...
It's unfortunate that the national media has been so irresponsible with this whole thing. They have no care about the impact that their irresponsible editorials will have on the future generations of citizens.

I disagree. bushii has tarnished the military. The media was irresponsible for not reporting that saddam had NO womd before the invasion, or that blix had 300 inspectors who had found NOTHING, and the dems in the senate were total pussies for not saying , 'hey wait a minute.' We've ****ed over the reserve and NG guys. We've killind COUNTLESS, LITERALLY, civilians KNOWINGLY TARGETING TARGETS WE KNEW WOULD CAUSE CIVILIAN DEATHS over **** like using radar guided artillary versus some a-hole with a mortor on a camal.

It was, and is, about nation building and it's going to ****. Pat Roberts was over there last week telling Negroponte the gop senate was pulling the plug next year.

It'll be decades before the military can regain it's former professionalism, and countless kids, like my own, hold it both in destain and will never consider it as a career path. I don't blame them one bit.

[epicSocialism4tw]

What a dramatic title to this thread.

The phrase "we dare not speak" is so dramatic that it makes me laugh!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by angryllama

What a dramatic title to this thread.

The phrase "we dare not speak" is so dramatic that it makes me laugh!

"The wise are mourning, fools are laughing"

- Joni Mitchell, "The Tea Leaf Prophecy"

[gunns]

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by gunns

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

"Fascism should more properly be called ‘corporatism,' since it is the marriage of government and corporate power."

- Benito Mussolini, describing the form of government currently championed in America by W*GS and the Bush lemmings

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

"Fascism should more properly be called ‘corporatism,' since it is the marriage of government and corporate power."

- Benito Mussolini, describing the form of government currently championed in America by W*GS and the Bush lemmings

Wrong. If you could get past soundbites like the above, you would see that this "quote" came from the "Encyclopedia Italiana", edited by Giovanni Gentile, who was one of the primary philosophical advocates of fascism. Some background on Gentile:

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/enc...ni_gentile.htm

which explains in reasonable detail that the attempt to tar me with the "fascist" brush by LABF is completely and wholly wrong. I'm a libertarian - the exact opposite of fascism.

But LABF has never let the facts get in the way of his attempts to smear and slur people. Indeed, if one subtracts out the posts in which LABF does nothing but personal attacks, there'd be precious little LABF left here on the OM.

[errand]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

"Fascism should more properly be called ‘corporatism,' since it is the marriage of government and corporate power."

- Benito Mussolini, describing the form of government currently championed in America by W*GS and the Bush lemmings

...again, another Facist quoted. I bet you clowns have these quotes laminated huh?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by errand

...again, another Facist(sic) quoted. I bet you clowns have these quotes laminated huh?

Um, let's go slow for Cletus:

The kind of government you support = the kind of government Mussolini describes.

That makes you the fascist.

[errand]

Originally Posted by gunns

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

I'm amazed at how those that refer to Bush as Hitler and our troops as Nazis can quote the words of Nazi thugs and murderers so accurately.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by errand

I'm amazed at how those that refer to Bush as Hitler and our troops as Nazis can quote the words of Nazi thugs and murderers so accurately.

Still amazed by the awesome power of the Internet and Google, are you?

BTW, are you ever going to man up and provide some quotes to back your claim that someone called the troops "Nazi thugs and murderers?"

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's sick of waiting for you to put up or shut up.

You make Rush Limbaugh sound like Alan Alda.

[errand]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Still amazed by the awesome power of the Internet and Google, are you?

BTW, are you ever going to man up and provide some quotes to back your claim that someone called the troops "Nazi thugs and murderers?"

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's sick of waiting for you to put up or shut up.

You make Rush Limbaugh sound like Alan Alda.

Senator Dick Turban referred to our troops running Getmo as Nazis and murderous thugs like Pol Pot....you didn't denounce him, in fact you expelled alot of effort in defending him ....that would tell any sane person that you agree withn Senator Turban's assessment.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by errand

Senator Dick Turban referred to our troops running Getmo as Nazis and murderous thugs like Pol Pot....you didn't denounce him, in fact you expelled alot of effort in defending him ....that would tell any sane person that you agree withn Senator Turban's assessment.

He rightfully and correctly pointed out the similarities where they existed.

He didn't call "the troops" "Nazi thugs and murderers" as you claim.

Prove that he did.

Originally Posted by errand

Actually I know why some Americans always expect failure...because they're liberals...and that's the way of life for them. They expect failure because they themselves are nothing but failures. They moan and groan about life giving them lemons and never think to make lemonade out of it.

Always getting it bass-ackwards, aren't you?

Bush and the neocons - not liberals - are responsible for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Bush and the neocons - not liberals - are responsible for the subsequent handling of Iraq.

Therefore, the failure is on them - not the liberals.

What is it about right-wingers and their pathological inability to take responsibility for their own actions?

[W*GS]

I've noticed that you didn't answer the question, LABF - just off on a lot of irrelevant tangents and personal attacks.

But what else is new? Even the simplest direction question is evaded, the person asking it is attacked, the wee minions rise to LABF's defense...

Yadda, yadda, yadda. Same song, verse number oh, about 10,000.

I was just checking to see if your having me on iggy (allegedly) tempered you in any way. To no surprise, it didn't.