Shanny discusses the LBs, the base 4-3, possibility Pryce may stay - The Orange Mane

SoCalBronco · 03-23-2005, 12:08 AM

Middle men take charge of defense

By Bill Williamson
Denver Post Staff Writer

Kapalua, Hawaii - While coach Mike Shanahan and his staff continue to rebuild the Broncos' defensive front, one fact about his new-look defense is clear.

Its power base will be at linebacker. With a reconstruction project afoot up front, the centerpiece of Denver's defense will be the men in the middle.

"We should be good there," Shanahan said Tuesday at the NFL owners meetings in Maui. "There won't be many (linebacking units) that are faster."

Denver, which lost three starters off last season's fourth- ranked defense, made its major defensive splash by bringing back Ian Gold. The linebacker signed a five-year contract with an $8.5 million signing bonus, returning to the Broncos after spending one year with Tampa Bay.

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Gold will replace Donnie Spragan, who signed with Miami. Gold joins middle linebacker Al Wilson, one of the top players at his position, and fellow outside linebacker D.J. Williams, who finished third in the NFL defensive rookie of the year voting last year, to form one of the most athletic linebacking units in the league.

Gold will play the "reduction" linebacker role, which Derrick Brooks handled with Tampa Bay. He'll essentially play on the weak side but will flip flop to the strong side at times. Williams will switch to the strong side, but will play some on the weak side, Shana- han said. Because of their speed and athleticism, both could play in the secondary in some nickel-defense packages.

Shanahan said the team will use the 3-4 defensive front in nickel packages, which it has done sporadically through his 10-year tenure with the Broncos. Shanahan said the 3-4 will be employed more with rush ends Anton Palepoi and Patrick Chukwurah moving outside with the Broncos' strong complement of linebackers.

"We like what we've got there," Shanahan said of his linebackers, "but you have to be good everywhere."

With the stout linebacking group and the secondary set, work still remains along the defensive line.

Denver is concentrating on free agent Courtney Brown, who likely would step in and start at defensive end. Brown finished a visit to Seattle on Tuesday and is likely to choose between the Broncos, Redskins, Jaguars and Seahawks. The former No. 1 overall draft pick missed the final 14 games of last season with a left foot injury.

"There's a lot of competition for him," Washington coach Joe Gibbs said Tuesday of Brown. "We're not confident we're going to get him, but we want him."

Denver completed a visit with Baltimore defensive end Marques Douglas on Tuesday and is talking with Atlanta defensive tackle Ed Jasper.

The Broncos are retooling the line after the free-agent loss of end Reggie Hayward to Jacksonville and the likely departure of Trevor Pryce, whom the team is trying to trade or could release to free salary cap room. Shana- han was reluctant to talk about Pryce but said it is possible the former Pro Bowl player could return, a scenario that likely would include restructuring Pryce's contract.

Shanahan said Denver's defense will not lose much in transition. He said the loss of starting safety Kenoy Kennedy in free agency hurts, but he is confident Nick Ferguson can step in and fill the role.

"Things change," Shanahan said. "You have to make the moves that make sense for the whole defense."

In Denver, that starts with a new, stronger linebacking group.

SoCalBronco · 03-23-2005, 12:11 AM

i guess its good that D.J. and Gold will be flipping spots at times, so at least D.J. will get to play some weakside, still not happy at the setup though. I think if we can get Brown, Douglas and maybe resign Ellis Johnson we would be in solid shape going into the draft, however the situation at guard is still troubling even with Cooper back.

SoCalBronco · 03-23-2005, 12:18 AM

Regarding Free Agency Shanny also says we will get some players, he also addresses a whole bunch of issues in this RMN article. Good to see Brown's offer is tied to playing time.

Broncos not done shopping for talent
Shanhan: It's early in process; club will not retain CB Herndon

By Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News
March 23, 2005

KAPALUA, Hawaii - Calling the team's free-agent shopping unfinished business, Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said Tuesday he likes what the team has done to the roster and noted there is a long way to go before the work is done.
"It's too early to tell, it's very early in the free agency stage," Shanahan said at the league meetings. "We don't have our team together yet. We have a plan for it . . . but it's only been a couple weeks of free agency. We've got time to find the guys we think can help us."

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To that end, Shanahan said the team will not match the offer sheet the Seattle Seahawks made to cornerback Kelly Herndon and he continues to hope the team can sign defensive end Courtney Brown.

Herndon signed a five- year, $15 million offer sheet last week from Seattle that includes a $3.6 million signing bonus. Because Herndon is a restricted free agent, the Broncos have until Thursday to match the offer, but Shanahan said the decision already has been made.

Asked if the team would match, Shanahan said: "No. That's a scenario where you love the guy because he competed for you and stepped in and played well when Lenny (Walls) went down. He's a good football player.

"You always want a guy with that type of background because he's played and he's been successful. But that's a little bit more than we would pay."

Herndon started every game last season after Walls injured a right ankle in training camp and later was put on injured reserve because of a right shoulder injury. The Broncos will receive no compensation for Herndon because he entered the league as an undrafted free agent.

Shanahan said Walls will enter training camp as the starter at cornerback alongside Champ Bailey. He added Jeremy LeSueur - he missed the 2004 season after being placed on injured reserve in training camp because of a sports hernia - Jeff Shoate and safety Nick Ferguson can play in the nickel as the fifth defensive back in passing situations.

Ferguson, Shanahan said, also will enter camp as the starter at strong safety in place of Kenoy Kennedy, who recently signed with the Detroit Lions.

Shanahan covered a wide array of topics, including:

• The Broncos continue to pursue Brown, a Cleveland Browns free agent. Brown visited the Jacksonville Jaguars on Monday and the Seahawks on Tuesday. The Broncos, Washington Redskins and Browns have offers on the table for Brown.

The Broncos' offer is tied heavily to playing time because Brown, the first pick in the 2000 draft, has missed 33 games the past four years because of injuries.

Brown, who missed 14 games last season after tearing a ligament in his left foot, failed his physical at Cleveland before his release and has told teams he will not be ready to run until at least May.

"He's a great player. His problem is, he's had some freak injuries that have sidelined him where he hasn't played a lot," Shanahan said. "But when he has played, he's been productive, it's very obvious. You don't have to be a genius: When he's healthy and he plays, he plays at a very high level.

"When he has been healthy, he's a freak. One of the reasons he's the first pick of the draft. . . . It doesn't matter where he goes, he's stepping in and playing. The question is, can he stay healthy? And I think that's where he is; he wants to step up, too. Here's the guy who was the first pick of the draft, he wants to get to another level too. He's tired of being hurt."

• Denver has yet to draw the kind of interest it wants to trade defensive end Trevor Pryce. The Broncos are seeking at least a first-round pick for Pryce, who played in only two games in 2004 because of surgery to repair a herniated disc in his back.

Though Pryce said earlier this off-season he could not see returning to the Broncos after they cleared him to seek a trade, Shanahan said he could see a scenario in which Pryce returns.

"Oh, sure," he said. "Would it bug me or anything like that? Heck, no. He's a good player. So sure, there's a scenario."

• Shanahan believes former Browns defensive tackle Gerard Warren, labeled an underachiever in his time at Cleveland, was well worth the fourth-round pick the Broncos sent to the Browns in exchange.

Warren was the third pick in the 2001 draft and will play for his former position coach at Cleveland, Andre Patterson, whom Denver hired last month.

"(Warren) has got a lot of athletic ability and the guy who coached him really thinks he's got a lot of upside," Shanahan said. "We thought he was worth a chance. Once you've got a coach who feels good about somebody who has a lot of athletic ability, you don't mind taking a chance.

"A big part of him coming in would be the off-season program, getting himself in great shape, giving himself a chance to be successful."

• Running back Reuben Droughns, who led the team in rushing last season with 1,240 yards and also has been cleared to seek a trade, will have to fight for playing time whether he is in camp at fullback or running back.

"It all depends on who wins out at what positions," Shanahan said. "If he played the fullback position, he's going to have to beat out Kyle Johnson and Cecil Sapp and Brandon Miree. (Johnson and Sapp) played quite well last year. . . . They both probably played a little bit better at the fullback position (than Droughns) just because they're a little bit more physical.

"Reuben gives a little different dimension as a receiver; he can obviously run the ball. He does a great job of catching the ball. Everybody's got strengths and weaknesses. As we go into the season, we're just going to try to find the top five, top six guys. Who's going to win out? I don't know, but you always want that depth because . . . as you saw (last season) you can lose them in a hurry."

Shanahan said Quentin Griffin, who is recovering from surgery to repair the anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee, has started to run during rehabilitation but is not making cuts.

• The Broncos will travel to Houston for two days of practice with the Texans during training camp leading to the teams' preseason game the weekend of Aug. 11-15. The Texans expect the game to be played Saturday, Aug. 13, but the NFL will make the final decision.

SoCalBronco · 03-23-2005, 12:19 AM

Interesting to see that in that RMN piece with Shanny, following up on yesterday's DPO quote of Sundquist, we are now rapidly shifting to "keep Trevor" mode.

Atlas · 03-23-2005, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

Interesting to see that in that RMN piece with Shanny, following up on yesterday's DPO quote of Sundquist, we are now rapidly shifting to "keep Trevor" mode.

He said he could see him coming back. I believe this is good. Don't cut Pryce. If he can't be traded then suit him up. I posted the RMN article as a new thread. OOPS

SoCalBronco · 03-23-2005, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlas

He wasn't is a rapid shifting keep Pryce mode. He said he could see him coming back. I believe this is good. Don't cut Pryce. If he can't be traded then suit him up. I posted the RMN article as a new thread. OOPS

Your right Atlas his language isnt strongly in that direction but i think in contrast to the totally absolute language they were using earlier there is a significant shift there. It was like totally no way he is coming back and then yesterday Sundquist said he thinks Pryce will be gone but "isnt 100 percent sure" and today Shanny's comments are arguably even more towards the avenue of Pryce staying. So there is a shift going on it seems. I wouldnt mind keeping him.

Ray Finkle · 03-23-2005, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

Interesting to see that in that RMN piece with Shanny, following up on yesterday's DPO quote of Sundquist, we are now rapidly shifting to "keep Trevor" mode.

I think it's just a trade tactic....make other teams think you will not release him so that have to trade to get him...

DBroncos4life · 03-23-2005, 05:24 AM

The only way I want to keep Pryce is if we toss him down to DT again. **** making his career longer. Move him back to where he was great at for us not just good.

Swedish Extrovert · 03-23-2005, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

Interesting to see that in that RMN piece with Shanny, following up on yesterday's DPO quote of Sundquist, we are now rapidly shifting to "keep Trevor" mode.

Im all for keeping Trever, but we must renegotiate his contract. I dont see us keeping an injured defensive end for $9mill

Atlas · 03-23-2005, 12:22 AM

Chris Schneider © News/2004

Calling the team's free-agent shopping unfinished business, Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said Tuesday he likes what the team has done to its roster so far and noted there's a long way to go before the work is done.

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Broncos not done shopping for talent
Shanhan: It's early in process; club will not retain CB Herndon

By Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News
March 23, 2005

KAPALUA, Hawaii - Calling the team's free-agent shopping unfinished business, Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said Tuesday he likes what the team has done to the roster and noted there is a long way to go before the work is done.

"It's too early to tell, it's very early in the free agency stage," Shanahan said at the league meetings. "We don't have our team together yet. We have a plan for it . . . but it's only been a couple weeks of free agency. We've got time to find the guys we think can help us."

To that end, Shanahan said the team will not match the offer sheet the Seattle Seahawks made to cornerback Kelly Herndon and he continues to hope the team can sign defensive end Courtney Brown.

Herndon signed a five- year, $15 million offer sheet last week from Seattle that includes a $3.6 million signing bonus. Because Herndon is a restricted free agent, the Broncos have until Thursday to match the offer, but Shanahan said the decision already has been made.

Asked if the team would match, Shanahan said: "No. That's a scenario where you love the guy because he competed for you and stepped in and played well when Lenny (Walls) went down. He's a good football player.

"You always want a guy with that type of background because he's played and he's been successful. But that's a little bit more than we would pay."

Herndon started every game last season after Walls injured a right ankle in training camp and later was put on injured reserve because of a right shoulder injury. The Broncos will receive no compensation for Herndon because he entered the league as an undrafted free agent.

Shanahan said Walls will enter training camp as the starter at cornerback alongside Champ Bailey. He added Jeremy LeSueur - he missed the 2004 season after being placed on injured reserve in training camp because of a sports hernia - Jeff Shoate and safety Nick Ferguson can play in the nickel as the fifth defensive back in passing situations.

Ferguson, Shanahan said, also will enter camp as the starter at strong safety in place of Kenoy Kennedy, who recently signed with the Detroit Lions.

Shanahan covered a wide array of topics, including:

• The Broncos continue to pursue Brown, a Cleveland Browns free agent. Brown visited the Jacksonville Jaguars on Monday and the Seahawks on Tuesday. The Broncos, Washington Redskins and Browns have offers on the table for Brown.

The Broncos' offer is tied heavily to playing time because Brown, the first pick in the 2000 draft, has missed 33 games the past four years because of injuries.

Brown, who missed 14 games last season after tearing a ligament in his left foot, failed his physical at Cleveland before his release and has told teams he will not be ready to run until at least May.

"He's a great player. His problem is, he's had some freak injuries that have sidelined him where he hasn't played a lot," Shanahan said. "But when he has played, he's been productive, it's very obvious. You don't have to be a genius: When he's healthy and he plays, he plays at a very high level.

"When he has been healthy, he's a freak. One of the reasons he's the first pick of the draft. . . . It doesn't matter where he goes, he's stepping in and playing. The question is, can he stay healthy? And I think that's where he is; he wants to step up, too. Here's the guy who was the first pick of the draft, he wants to get to another level too. He's tired of being hurt."

• Denver has yet to draw the kind of interest it wants to trade defensive end Trevor Pryce. The Broncos are seeking at least a first-round pick for Pryce, who played in only two games in 2004 because of surgery to repair a herniated disc in his back.

Though Pryce said earlier this off-season he could not see returning to the Broncos after they cleared him to seek a trade, Shanahan said he could see a scenario in which Pryce returns.

"Oh, sure," he said. "Would it bug me or anything like that? Heck, no. He's a good player. So sure, there's a scenario."

• Shanahan believes former Browns defensive tackle Gerard Warren, labeled an underachiever in his time at Cleveland, was well worth the fourth-round pick the Broncos sent to the Browns in exchange.

Warren was the third pick in the 2001 draft and will play for his former position coach at Cleveland, Andre Patterson, whom Denver hired last month.

"(Warren) has got a lot of athletic ability and the guy who coached him really thinks he's got a lot of upside," Shanahan said. "We thought he was worth a chance. Once you've got a coach who feels good about somebody who has a lot of athletic ability, you don't mind taking a chance.

"A big part of him coming in would be the off-season program, getting himself in great shape, giving himself a chance to be successful."

Cito Pelon · 03-23-2005, 12:28 AM

What's this "strong complement of linebackers . . . fastest linebackers in the League . . ." garbage. Fast, ok, but this is not an exceptional group of LB's. DJ looks like what I would call an exceptional LB, but I already know the rest of them are not exceptionally good. Next year is another chance to shine, and I like Wilson's competitiveness, he's no slouch, but Gold I already know is nothing special at all, and probably never will be. He's good at working Shanny for a nice contract, I'll give him credit for that.

fontaine · 03-23-2005, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cito Pelon

What's this "strong complement of linebackers . . . fastest linebackers in the League . . ." garbage. Fast, ok, but this is not an exceptional group of LB's. DJ looks like what I would call an exceptional LB, but I already know the rest of them are not exceptionally good. Next year is another chance to shine, and I like Wilson's competitiveness, he's no slouch, but Gold I already know is nothing special at all, and probably never will be. He's good at working Shanny for a nice contract, I'll give him credit for that.

I'd love to see what Wilson/DJ etc can do behind a solid DL. You know DL that can't just be blocked out one on one.

eddie mac · 03-23-2005, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontaine

I'd love to see what Wilson/DJ etc can do behind a solid DL. You know DL that can't just be blocked out one on one.

Doubt whether you'll see a line like that in Denver until we're picking in the top 10 2-3 years running.

fontaine · 03-23-2005, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie mac

Doubt whether you'll see a line like that in Denver until we're picking in the top 10 2-3 years running.

We were close. If we had kept either Hayward or Berry then our line could have been:

DE/Pryce/Warren/Hayward(or)Berry.

In that case I would have had no problems trading our 2nd to New Orleans for Darren Howard and he would have been the DE in place of Pryce while we moved Trevor inside.

You can have a dominant DL even if you're picking outside the top 10 as long as you manage the cap right.

Odysseus · 03-23-2005, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cito Pelon

What's this "strong complement of linebackers . . . fastest linebackers in the League . . ." garbage. Fast, ok, but this is not an exceptional group of LB's.

Our guys don't have to be great. All they have to do is execute. The biggest problem on this team, regardless of skill, is that these guys DO NOT execute.

The phrase "make plays" comes to mind. Nobody ever appreciated mediocre guys like "chicken" (Tyrone Braxton) but that ugly little dude was on the bubble every year but he made plays. All they have to do is focus.

Instead of players worrying about making an ESPN highlight focus on doing your job. When was that not enough? They lack a sense of urgency.

This is why I'm pretty sick of Bronco announcements. The more they talk the worst they are going to do. Believe it. They are not able to talk and walk. The only player in Broncos history to do that WELL was Shannon Sharpe and he's retired.

Cito Pelon · 03-23-2005, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quiettiger

Our guys don't have to be great. All they have to do is execute. The biggest problem on this team, regardless of skill, is that these guys DO NOT execute.

The phrase "make plays" comes to mind. Nobody ever appreciated mediocre guys like "chicken" (Tyrone Braxton) but that ugly little dude was on the bubble every year but he made plays. All they have to do is focus.

Instead of players worrying about making an ESPN highlight focus on doing your job. When was that not enough? They lack a sense of urgency.

This is why I'm pretty sick of Bronco announcements. The more they talk the worst they are going to do. Believe it. They are not able to talk and walk. The only player in Broncos history to do that WELL was Shannon Sharpe and he's retired.

I have to agree with that. We'll see if the coaching staff changes will make any difference this year. Somehow or another there has to be more TO's for the Broncs D to be a dominant force.

Mr Chatterboodamn · 03-23-2005, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cito Pelon

What's this "strong complement of linebackers . . . fastest linebackers in the League . . ." garbage. Fast, ok, but this is not an exceptional group of LB's. DJ looks like what I would call an exceptional LB, but I already know the rest of them are not exceptionally good. Next year is another chance to shine, and I like Wilson's competitiveness, he's no slouch, but Gold I already know is nothing special at all, and probably never will be. He's good at working Shanny for a nice contract, I'll give him credit for that.

dude, i think people are getting Q and Ian Gold confused. there are Little Americans and then there is Ian Gold. I bet he would make many of you look like midgets -- 6'0 ripped. Sometimes ideal size is blown way out of proportion, but tackling is basically a martial art and a fundamental aspect of football. Lest most of you forget that Ian Gold was a really good player for us....fast, versatile, tough, covers well, tackled very well for his size, and simply made plays. remember him flying around? remember his heart and hustle? his awareness and agressiveness? In fact, he is the namesake of Broncos LB 52. Luckily for BrncsLB52 we got another good #52 in the draft.
ok, so he dropped some passes and tore his ACL and had an idiot agent trick him out of denver. Mike Shanahan is a much more long term thinker and deeper human being that you realize. He told gold that they would take care of him even after his ACL. his agents talk him out of a reasonable post-injury offer and sign him to a crap deal on a team with a stalwart WLB already. Now we are taking care of him and we got to have tampa pay a lot of money for that post ACL cross-your-fingers year. It's gone. He played well and we can start to uncross our fingers that he will be healthy from here on out.
You guys also underestimate DJ Williams a lot. This switch will be much different than mobley. DJ is and always has been one of the elite athletes in the country. He can line up over tight end just fine. Our defense oft times frees things up and funnels plays to the WLB. Ian Gold is perfectly capable of making those plays and with him speed he can chase down the faster skill players. What we haven't had is a SLB that makes plays or has the athleticism, speed and size to cover, blitz, shed blocks, and make sick tackles. This change isn't analogous to the Mobley switch at all. WLB will get #'s in our offense, but I think Ian will be a nice WLB. Plus, sounds like they will share duties. And don't forget, we now have some meat up front in Warren, pope, davis, maybe brown, maybe tony williams, maybe pryce, maybe fresh meat, old slabs, june 1s etc 2 third rounders.... i just see Ian gold as the kinda blitzer that could change games against teams like indy. Wilson, DJ, and Gold will truly be a great trio i believe that WLB is just a player who has a simple job if the plate is set by the rest of the D. Williams is way better, has always found success, approaches things completely professionally and will succeed again in a primary role shift. If the broncos got a guy like brown and had his contract be incentive based, we could do nice things. lets not forget the good aspects just because of what we thought "the plan would be" perhaps pryce is the only aspect that is not working out. perhaps we anticipated the difficulty of a trade, are confident in his long term health, but put that out there more as an auction with a high reserve. right now, as far as im concerned, his use value is much higher than his exchange. id like to see him on the field next year. if he reverts to old form, we are paying him what we should. Darryl Garderner had a career year after back surgery. Ok, time to end the post when you use IHOP as an example to prove your point.

Tombstone RJ · 03-23-2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Chatterboodamn

dude, i think people are getting Q and Ian Gold confused. there are Little Americans and then there is Ian Gold. I bet he would make many of you look like midgets -- 6'0 ripped. Sometimes ideal size is blown way out of proportion, but tackling is basically a martial art and a fundamental aspect of football. Lest most of you forget that Ian Gold was a really good player for us....fast, versatile, tough, covers well, tackled very well for his size, and simply made plays. remember him flying around? remember his heart and hustle? his awareness and agressiveness? In fact, he is the namesake of Broncos LB 52. Luckily for BrncsLB52 we got another good #52 in the draft.
ok, so he dropped some passes and tore his ACL and had an idiot agent trick him out of denver. Mike Shanahan is a much more long term thinker and deeper human being that you realize. He told gold that they would take care of him even after his ACL. his agents talk him out of a reasonable post-injury offer and sign him to a crap deal on a team with a stalwart WLB already. Now we are taking care of him and we got to have tampa pay a lot of money for that post ACL cross-your-fingers year. It's gone. He played well and we can start to uncross our fingers that he will be healthy from here on out.
You guys also underestimate DJ Williams a lot. This switch will be much different than mobley. DJ is and always has been one of the elite athletes in the country. He can line up over tight end just fine. Our defense oft times frees things up and funnels plays to the WLB. Ian Gold is perfectly capable of making those plays and with him speed he can chase down the faster skill players. What we haven't had is a SLB that makes plays or has the athleticism, speed and size to cover, blitz, shed blocks, and make sick tackles. This change isn't analogous to the Mobley switch at all. WLB will get #'s in our offense, but I think Ian will be a nice WLB. Plus, sounds like they will share duties. And don't forget, we now have some meat up front in Warren, pope, davis, maybe brown, maybe tony williams, maybe pryce, maybe fresh meat, old slabs, june 1s etc 2 third rounders.... i just see Ian gold as the kinda blitzer that could change games against teams like indy. Wilson, DJ, and Gold will truly be a great trio i believe that WLB is just a player who has a simple job if the plate is set by the rest of the D. Williams is way better, has always found success, approaches things completely professionally and will succeed again in a primary role shift. If the broncos got a guy like brown and had his contract be incentive based, we could do nice things. lets not forget the good aspects just because of what we thought "the plan would be" perhaps pryce is the only aspect that is not working out. perhaps we anticipated the difficulty of a trade, are confident in his long term health, but put that out there more as an auction with a high reserve. right now, as far as im concerned, his use value is much higher than his exchange. id like to see him on the field next year. if he reverts to old form, we are paying him what we should. Darryl Garderner had a career year after back surgery. Ok, time to end the post when you use IHOP as an example to prove your point.

Obviously Ian Gold is a great LB, that is why Tampa insisnted on keeping him around...

delany · 03-23-2005, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Obviously Ian Gold is a great LB, that is why Tampa insisnted on keeping him around...

I can think of a ton of 'great' players that weren't kept around.

Cito Pelon · 03-23-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Chatterboodamn

dude, i think people are getting Q and Ian Gold confused. there are Little Americans and then there is Ian Gold. I bet he would make many of you look like midgets -- 6'0 ripped. Sometimes ideal size is blown way out of proportion, but tackling is basically a martial art and a fundamental aspect of football. Lest most of you forget that Ian Gold was a really good player for us....fast, versatile, tough, covers well, tackled very well for his size, and simply made plays. remember him flying around? remember his heart and hustle? his awareness and agressiveness? In fact, he is the namesake of Broncos LB 52. Luckily for BrncsLB52 we got another good #52 in the draft.
ok, so he dropped some passes and tore his ACL and had an idiot agent trick him out of denver. Mike Shanahan is a much more long term thinker and deeper human being that you realize. He told gold that they would take care of him even after his ACL. his agents talk him out of a reasonable post-injury offer and sign him to a crap deal on a team with a stalwart WLB already. Now we are taking care of him and we got to have tampa pay a lot of money for that post ACL cross-your-fingers year. It's gone. He played well and we can start to uncross our fingers that he will be healthy from here on out.
You guys also underestimate DJ Williams a lot. This switch will be much different than mobley. DJ is and always has been one of the elite athletes in the country. He can line up over tight end just fine. Our defense oft times frees things up and funnels plays to the WLB. Ian Gold is perfectly capable of making those plays and with him speed he can chase down the faster skill players. What we haven't had is a SLB that makes plays or has the athleticism, speed and size to cover, blitz, shed blocks, and make sick tackles. This change isn't analogous to the Mobley switch at all. WLB will get #'s in our offense, but I think Ian will be a nice WLB. Plus, sounds like they will share duties. And don't forget, we now have some meat up front in Warren, pope, davis, maybe brown, maybe tony williams, maybe pryce, maybe fresh meat, old slabs, june 1s etc 2 third rounders.... i just see Ian gold as the kinda blitzer that could change games against teams like indy. Wilson, DJ, and Gold will truly be a great trio i believe that WLB is just a player who has a simple job if the plate is set by the rest of the D. Williams is way better, has always found success, approaches things completely professionally and will succeed again in a primary role shift. If the broncos got a guy like brown and had his contract be incentive based, we could do nice things. lets not forget the good aspects just because of what we thought "the plan would be" perhaps pryce is the only aspect that is not working out. perhaps we anticipated the difficulty of a trade, are confident in his long term health, but put that out there more as an auction with a high reserve. right now, as far as im concerned, his use value is much higher than his exchange. id like to see him on the field next year. if he reverts to old form, we are paying him what we should. Darryl Garderner had a career year after back surgery. Ok, time to end the post when you use IHOP as an example to prove your point.

Gold takes bad angles, doesn't shed blockers or take on blockers so another guy can make the play, has bad hands, and is not a solid tackler.

The idea of LB's shifting from one side to another depending on situation won't work. Never has, never will.

C. Brown said himself he's only 80% back from his latest injury. He's not gonna work, he's a waste of money.

SoCalBronco · 03-23-2005, 12:39 AM

I am also encouraged to see Shanny saying the name "Jeremy LeSueur" again. It looked like he was having a good set of minicamps and then the bottom just totally dropped out in training camp forcing us to invent an injury to hide him on the IR because there was no way he was going to make the team. Maybe he started to show some of that pre training camp ability during the end of the season in the scout team practices or something. He was the only one of the first day class last year that didnt contribute. He has to help us out this year.

Odysseus · 03-23-2005, 01:33 AM

D.J. needs to play strongside and weakside:

1/ It forces D.J. to improve and become more of an impact player.
2/ It forces Offensive co-ordinators to account for him on the field.
3/ It allows the Broncos to disguise where the pressure is coming from.
4/ It justifys the Oompa Loompa (Ian Gold) on the field.
5/ Ultimately if D.J. does well he will get the fat payday....somewhere.

They seem to be wanting to clog the interior and get pressure from the outside. I kind of wonder where Pierce is going to fit in all of this. Predator is going to get his.

The optimist would say we will get more pressures. The pessimist wants to know how this is going to do anything to improve turnovers. The realist is willing to wait until some of this cloud of conversation has cleared. Nothing being said really...

I wonder if those kind words to Trevor in the press was an invitation to work things out or a confirmation they've been talking all along. Hmmm.

watermock · 03-23-2005, 01:41 AM

Yeah right. We can all wish.

All this shows is that the options for Pryce are waning down, and Shanahan is doing what he should of done in the first place, restructure Plummer, and deal from a position of strength, or at least a relative one. I'm damn tired of this slotting crap. Next year, we have some money, we should of been resigning a few dudes before this Pryce crap comes to this. To me, it's extremely irritating to have Bowlen call Pryce a FA to the media last week, a month ago, he as going to be a first round trade...blah blah blah...where is any semblance of street cred here?

Maybe we can move from 25 to 18 with the Vikings or deal with Dallas, but hell, we have had such great luck dating back to Butch Johnson to Pittman, why not make yet another one sided deal.

I hope I am not the only one who was astounded with the arrogance of Denver this offseason. Droughns might be shipped for a second? Hell, Alexander, Edge, Henry are all looking for jobs and have franchise numbers. Nary a bit for someone we picked up off the street. I mean get real.

The Pryce fiasco is even more rediculous. Do these people have any clue, ANY CLUE what they asserted just two months ago? At this point, people are hoping to get as much as we did for Deltha, and I will tell you what....at least Deltha was on a rookie contract and young. He doesn't have a 9 million dollar cash cow hanging on his neck like an albatros. Trust me. Pryce wants nothing more than to play this year and milk that 9 million dollar payday. I mean, get real. I'm not sure HE IS SURE he will be the same man. That's why we should ship him to Minnesota, trade spots, and be done with it. They can draft at 7 and 25 and pick up Pryce and Pat Williams and K-Will are inside, guaranteing Pryce will be single teamed at DE. It just makes too much sense. At that point, Minnesota doesn't reach for a DE at 7, they take one of the two WR's or the top back and move Bennett for a bag of pretzles.

It's like they are bluffing while they think the King wears clothes. Yes, the King's garment is very pretty and shining today don't you think?

I expect at least SOME movement tommorow. But the King has no clothes.

Atlas · 03-23-2005, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watermock

Yeah right. We can all wish.

Maybe we can move from 25 to 18 with the Vikings or deal with Dallas, but hell, we have had such great luck dating back to Butch Johnson to Pittman, why not make yet another one sided deal.

.

There was nothing wrong with Butch Johnson. He had a great 1985 year. The next season Denver had the emergence of Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson was a rookie and Denver had the reliable Steve Watson. Johnson himself was fine it's just Denver got so much better at WR in that one year he was there.

Also Pittman was a FA. Denver didn't trade for him. If you want to bring up former Cowboys than Tony Dorsett might be one to bring up. Although I think Denver only ended up giving a 4th rounder for him.

Ballhawk · 03-23-2005, 02:15 AM

Mock, I just do not see any value in shipping Pryce to Minn except to dump his salary and get him out of the AFC...25 to 18 is not going to land you anything better.

I say ship Pryce and Rueben off to Clevland for the #34 pick (Baltimore matched Taylers offer sheet so they are still in the market for a RB).

03-23-2005, 12:08 AM	#1
SoCalBronco Nixonite Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 33,293 Adopt-a-Bronco: D.J. Williams	Shanny discusses the LBs, the base 4-3, possibility Pryce may stay Middle men take charge of defense By Bill Williamson Denver Post Staff Writer Kapalua, Hawaii - While coach Mike Shanahan and his staff continue to rebuild the Broncos' defensive front, one fact about his new-look defense is clear. Its power base will be at linebacker. With a reconstruction project afoot up front, the centerpiece of Denver's defense will be the men in the middle. "We should be good there," Shanahan said Tuesday at the NFL owners meetings in Maui. "There won't be many (linebacking units) that are faster." Denver, which lost three starters off last season's fourth- ranked defense, made its major defensive splash by bringing back Ian Gold. The linebacker signed a five-year contract with an $8.5 million signing bonus, returning to the Broncos after spending one year with Tampa Bay. Advertisement Gold will replace Donnie Spragan, who signed with Miami. Gold joins middle linebacker Al Wilson, one of the top players at his position, and fellow outside linebacker D.J. Williams, who finished third in the NFL defensive rookie of the year voting last year, to form one of the most athletic linebacking units in the league. Gold will play the "reduction" linebacker role, which Derrick Brooks handled with Tampa Bay. He'll essentially play on the weak side but will flip flop to the strong side at times. Williams will switch to the strong side, but will play some on the weak side, Shana- han said. Because of their speed and athleticism, both could play in the secondary in some nickel-defense packages. Shanahan said the team will use the 3-4 defensive front in nickel packages, which it has done sporadically through his 10-year tenure with the Broncos. Shanahan said the 3-4 will be employed more with rush ends Anton Palepoi and Patrick Chukwurah moving outside with the Broncos' strong complement of linebackers. "We like what we've got there," Shanahan said of his linebackers, "but you have to be good everywhere." With the stout linebacking group and the secondary set, work still remains along the defensive line. Denver is concentrating on free agent Courtney Brown, who likely would step in and start at defensive end. Brown finished a visit to Seattle on Tuesday and is likely to choose between the Broncos, Redskins, Jaguars and Seahawks. The former No. 1 overall draft pick missed the final 14 games of last season with a left foot injury. "There's a lot of competition for him," Washington coach Joe Gibbs said Tuesday of Brown. "We're not confident we're going to get him, but we want him." Denver completed a visit with Baltimore defensive end Marques Douglas on Tuesday and is talking with Atlanta defensive tackle Ed Jasper. The Broncos are retooling the line after the free-agent loss of end Reggie Hayward to Jacksonville and the likely departure of Trevor Pryce, whom the team is trying to trade or could release to free salary cap room. Shana- han was reluctant to talk about Pryce but said it is possible the former Pro Bowl player could return, a scenario that likely would include restructuring Pryce's contract. Shanahan said Denver's defense will not lose much in transition. He said the loss of starting safety Kenoy Kennedy in free agency hurts, but he is confident Nick Ferguson can step in and fill the role. "Things change," Shanahan said. "You have to make the moves that make sense for the whole defense." In Denver, that starts with a new, stronger linebacking group. __________________ ITS A PLAYOFF HOCKEY NIGHT IN PITTSBURGH!

03-23-2005, 12:11 AM	#2
SoCalBronco Nixonite Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 33,293 Adopt-a-Bronco: D.J. Williams	i guess its good that D.J. and Gold will be flipping spots at times, so at least D.J. will get to play some weakside, still not happy at the setup though. I think if we can get Brown, Douglas and maybe resign Ellis Johnson we would be in solid shape going into the draft, however the situation at guard is still troubling even with Cooper back. __________________ ITS A PLAYOFF HOCKEY NIGHT IN PITTSBURGH!

03-23-2005, 12:19 AM	#4
SoCalBronco Nixonite Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 33,293 Adopt-a-Bronco: D.J. Williams	Interesting to see that in that RMN piece with Shanny, following up on yesterday's DPO quote of Sundquist, we are now rapidly shifting to "keep Trevor" mode. __________________ ITS A PLAYOFF HOCKEY NIGHT IN PITTSBURGH!

03-23-2005, 12:22 AM	#10
Atlas Draft Defense Early&Often Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18,526	Denver still looking Chris Schneider © News/2004 Calling the team's free-agent shopping unfinished business, Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said Tuesday he likes what the team has done to its roster so far and noted there's a long way to go before the work is done. PRINT THIS STORY \| E-MAIL THIS STORY Broncos not done shopping for talent Shanhan: It's early in process; club will not retain CB Herndon By Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News March 23, 2005 KAPALUA, Hawaii - Calling the team's free-agent shopping unfinished business, Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said Tuesday he likes what the team has done to the roster and noted there is a long way to go before the work is done. "It's too early to tell, it's very early in the free agency stage," Shanahan said at the league meetings. "We don't have our team together yet. We have a plan for it . . . but it's only been a couple weeks of free agency. We've got time to find the guys we think can help us." To that end, Shanahan said the team will not match the offer sheet the Seattle Seahawks made to cornerback Kelly Herndon and he continues to hope the team can sign defensive end Courtney Brown. Herndon signed a five- year, $15 million offer sheet last week from Seattle that includes a $3.6 million signing bonus. Because Herndon is a restricted free agent, the Broncos have until Thursday to match the offer, but Shanahan said the decision already has been made. Asked if the team would match, Shanahan said: "No. That's a scenario where you love the guy because he competed for you and stepped in and played well when Lenny (Walls) went down. He's a good football player. "You always want a guy with that type of background because he's played and he's been successful. But that's a little bit more than we would pay." Herndon started every game last season after Walls injured a right ankle in training camp and later was put on injured reserve because of a right shoulder injury. The Broncos will receive no compensation for Herndon because he entered the league as an undrafted free agent. Shanahan said Walls will enter training camp as the starter at cornerback alongside Champ Bailey. He added Jeremy LeSueur - he missed the 2004 season after being placed on injured reserve in training camp because of a sports hernia - Jeff Shoate and safety Nick Ferguson can play in the nickel as the fifth defensive back in passing situations. Ferguson, Shanahan said, also will enter camp as the starter at strong safety in place of Kenoy Kennedy, who recently signed with the Detroit Lions. Shanahan covered a wide array of topics, including: • The Broncos continue to pursue Brown, a Cleveland Browns free agent. Brown visited the Jacksonville Jaguars on Monday and the Seahawks on Tuesday. The Broncos, Washington Redskins and Browns have offers on the table for Brown. The Broncos' offer is tied heavily to playing time because Brown, the first pick in the 2000 draft, has missed 33 games the past four years because of injuries. Brown, who missed 14 games last season after tearing a ligament in his left foot, failed his physical at Cleveland before his release and has told teams he will not be ready to run until at least May. "He's a great player. His problem is, he's had some freak injuries that have sidelined him where he hasn't played a lot," Shanahan said. "But when he has played, he's been productive, it's very obvious. You don't have to be a genius: When he's healthy and he plays, he plays at a very high level. "When he has been healthy, he's a freak. One of the reasons he's the first pick of the draft. . . . It doesn't matter where he goes, he's stepping in and playing. The question is, can he stay healthy? And I think that's where he is; he wants to step up, too. Here's the guy who was the first pick of the draft, he wants to get to another level too. He's tired of being hurt." • Denver has yet to draw the kind of interest it wants to trade defensive end Trevor Pryce. The Broncos are seeking at least a first-round pick for Pryce, who played in only two games in 2004 because of surgery to repair a herniated disc in his back. Though Pryce said earlier this off-season he could not see returning to the Broncos after they cleared him to seek a trade, Shanahan said he could see a scenario in which Pryce returns. "Oh, sure," he said. "Would it bug me or anything like that? Heck, no. He's a good player. So sure, there's a scenario." • Shanahan believes former Browns defensive tackle Gerard Warren, labeled an underachiever in his time at Cleveland, was well worth the fourth-round pick the Broncos sent to the Browns in exchange. Warren was the third pick in the 2001 draft and will play for his former position coach at Cleveland, Andre Patterson, whom Denver hired last month. "(Warren) has got a lot of athletic ability and the guy who coached him really thinks he's got a lot of upside," Shanahan said. "We thought he was worth a chance. Once you've got a coach who feels good about somebody who has a lot of athletic ability, you don't mind taking a chance. "A big part of him coming in would be the off-season program, getting himself in great shape, giving himself a chance to be successful."

03-23-2005, 12:39 AM	#21
SoCalBronco Nixonite Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 33,293 Adopt-a-Bronco: D.J. Williams	I am also encouraged to see Shanny saying the name "Jeremy LeSueur" again. It looked like he was having a good set of minicamps and then the bottom just totally dropped out in training camp forcing us to invent an injury to hide him on the IR because there was no way he was going to make the team. Maybe he started to show some of that pre training camp ability during the end of the season in the scout team practices or something. He was the only one of the first day class last year that didnt contribute. He has to help us out this year. __________________ ITS A PLAYOFF HOCKEY NIGHT IN PITTSBURGH!

03-23-2005, 12:18 AM	#3
SoCalBronco Nixonite Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 33,293 Adopt-a-Bronco: D.J. Williams	Regarding Free Agency Shanny also says we will get some players, he also addresses a whole bunch of issues in this RMN article. Good to see Brown's offer is tied to playing time. Broncos not done shopping for talent Shanhan: It's early in process; club will not retain CB Herndon By Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News March 23, 2005 KAPALUA, Hawaii - Calling the team's free-agent shopping unfinished business, Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said Tuesday he likes what the team has done to the roster and noted there is a long way to go before the work is done. "It's too early to tell, it's very early in the free agency stage," Shanahan said at the league meetings. "We don't have our team together yet. We have a plan for it . . . but it's only been a couple weeks of free agency. We've got time to find the guys we think can help us." Advertisement To that end, Shanahan said the team will not match the offer sheet the Seattle Seahawks made to cornerback Kelly Herndon and he continues to hope the team can sign defensive end Courtney Brown. Herndon signed a five- year, $15 million offer sheet last week from Seattle that includes a $3.6 million signing bonus. Because Herndon is a restricted free agent, the Broncos have until Thursday to match the offer, but Shanahan said the decision already has been made. Asked if the team would match, Shanahan said: "No. That's a scenario where you love the guy because he competed for you and stepped in and played well when Lenny (Walls) went down. He's a good football player. "You always want a guy with that type of background because he's played and he's been successful. But that's a little bit more than we would pay." Herndon started every game last season after Walls injured a right ankle in training camp and later was put on injured reserve because of a right shoulder injury. The Broncos will receive no compensation for Herndon because he entered the league as an undrafted free agent. Shanahan said Walls will enter training camp as the starter at cornerback alongside Champ Bailey. He added Jeremy LeSueur - he missed the 2004 season after being placed on injured reserve in training camp because of a sports hernia - Jeff Shoate and safety Nick Ferguson can play in the nickel as the fifth defensive back in passing situations. Ferguson, Shanahan said, also will enter camp as the starter at strong safety in place of Kenoy Kennedy, who recently signed with the Detroit Lions. Shanahan covered a wide array of topics, including: • The Broncos continue to pursue Brown, a Cleveland Browns free agent. Brown visited the Jacksonville Jaguars on Monday and the Seahawks on Tuesday. The Broncos, Washington Redskins and Browns have offers on the table for Brown. The Broncos' offer is tied heavily to playing time because Brown, the first pick in the 2000 draft, has missed 33 games the past four years because of injuries. Brown, who missed 14 games last season after tearing a ligament in his left foot, failed his physical at Cleveland before his release and has told teams he will not be ready to run until at least May. "He's a great player. His problem is, he's had some freak injuries that have sidelined him where he hasn't played a lot," Shanahan said. "But when he has played, he's been productive, it's very obvious. You don't have to be a genius: When he's healthy and he plays, he plays at a very high level. "When he has been healthy, he's a freak. One of the reasons he's the first pick of the draft. . . . It doesn't matter where he goes, he's stepping in and playing. The question is, can he stay healthy? And I think that's where he is; he wants to step up, too. Here's the guy who was the first pick of the draft, he wants to get to another level too. He's tired of being hurt." • Denver has yet to draw the kind of interest it wants to trade defensive end Trevor Pryce. The Broncos are seeking at least a first-round pick for Pryce, who played in only two games in 2004 because of surgery to repair a herniated disc in his back. Though Pryce said earlier this off-season he could not see returning to the Broncos after they cleared him to seek a trade, Shanahan said he could see a scenario in which Pryce returns. "Oh, sure," he said. "Would it bug me or anything like that? Heck, no. He's a good player. So sure, there's a scenario." • Shanahan believes former Browns defensive tackle Gerard Warren, labeled an underachiever in his time at Cleveland, was well worth the fourth-round pick the Broncos sent to the Browns in exchange. Warren was the third pick in the 2001 draft and will play for his former position coach at Cleveland, Andre Patterson, whom Denver hired last month. "(Warren) has got a lot of athletic ability and the guy who coached him really thinks he's got a lot of upside," Shanahan said. "We thought he was worth a chance. Once you've got a coach who feels good about somebody who has a lot of athletic ability, you don't mind taking a chance. "A big part of him coming in would be the off-season program, getting himself in great shape, giving himself a chance to be successful." • Running back Reuben Droughns, who led the team in rushing last season with 1,240 yards and also has been cleared to seek a trade, will have to fight for playing time whether he is in camp at fullback or running back. "It all depends on who wins out at what positions," Shanahan said. "If he played the fullback position, he's going to have to beat out Kyle Johnson and Cecil Sapp and Brandon Miree. (Johnson and Sapp) played quite well last year. . . . They both probably played a little bit better at the fullback position (than Droughns) just because they're a little bit more physical. "Reuben gives a little different dimension as a receiver; he can obviously run the ball. He does a great job of catching the ball. Everybody's got strengths and weaknesses. As we go into the season, we're just going to try to find the top five, top six guys. Who's going to win out? I don't know, but you always want that depth because . . . as you saw (last season) you can lose them in a hurry." Shanahan said Quentin Griffin, who is recovering from surgery to repair the anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee, has started to run during rehabilitation but is not making cuts. • The Broncos will travel to Houston for two days of practice with the Texans during training camp leading to the teams' preseason game the weekend of Aug. 11-15. The Texans expect the game to be played Saturday, Aug. 13, but the NFL will make the final decision. __________________ ITS A PLAYOFF HOCKEY NIGHT IN PITTSBURGH! Last edited by SoCalBronco; 03-23-2005 at 12:21 AM..

03-23-2005, 05:24 AM	#8
DBroncos4life Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU Why yes, that is Bacon Bacon. Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The wrong side of right. Posts: 26,532	The only way I want to keep Pryce is if we toss him down to DT again. **** making his career longer. Move him back to where he was great at for us not just good.

03-23-2005, 12:28 AM	#11
Cito Pelon Attack at all times . . . Happy dog at the Divide Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: AFC West Championshipville Posts: 15,192 Adopt-a-Bronco: Elvis	What's this "strong complement of linebackers . . . fastest linebackers in the League . . ." garbage. Fast, ok, but this is not an exceptional group of LB's. DJ looks like what I would call an exceptional LB, but I already know the rest of them are not exceptionally good. Next year is another chance to shine, and I like Wilson's competitiveness, he's no slouch, but Gold I already know is nothing special at all, and probably never will be. He's good at working Shanny for a nice contract, I'll give him credit for that.

03-23-2005, 01:33 AM	#22
Odysseus Fan of the home team Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Durango, Colorado Posts: 12,107 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mark Schlereth	D.J. needs to play strongside and weakside: 1/ It forces D.J. to improve and become more of an impact player. 2/ It forces Offensive co-ordinators to account for him on the field. 3/ It allows the Broncos to disguise where the pressure is coming from. 4/ It justifys the Oompa Loompa (Ian Gold) on the field. 5/ Ultimately if D.J. does well he will get the fat payday....somewhere. They seem to be wanting to clog the interior and get pressure from the outside. I kind of wonder where Pierce is going to fit in all of this. Predator is going to get his. The optimist would say we will get more pressures. The pessimist wants to know how this is going to do anything to improve turnovers. The realist is willing to wait until some of this cloud of conversation has cleared. Nothing being said really... I wonder if those kind words to Trevor in the press was an invitation to work things out or a confirmation they've been talking all along. Hmmm.

03-23-2005, 01:41 AM	#23
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	Yeah right. We can all wish. All this shows is that the options for Pryce are waning down, and Shanahan is doing what he should of done in the first place, restructure Plummer, and deal from a position of strength, or at least a relative one. I'm damn tired of this slotting crap. Next year, we have some money, we should of been resigning a few dudes before this Pryce crap comes to this. To me, it's extremely irritating to have Bowlen call Pryce a FA to the media last week, a month ago, he as going to be a first round trade...blah blah blah...where is any semblance of street cred here? Maybe we can move from 25 to 18 with the Vikings or deal with Dallas, but hell, we have had such great luck dating back to Butch Johnson to Pittman, why not make yet another one sided deal. I hope I am not the only one who was astounded with the arrogance of Denver this offseason. Droughns might be shipped for a second? Hell, Alexander, Edge, Henry are all looking for jobs and have franchise numbers. Nary a bit for someone we picked up off the street. I mean get real. The Pryce fiasco is even more rediculous. Do these people have any clue, ANY CLUE what they asserted just two months ago? At this point, people are hoping to get as much as we did for Deltha, and I will tell you what....at least Deltha was on a rookie contract and young. He doesn't have a 9 million dollar cash cow hanging on his neck like an albatros. Trust me. Pryce wants nothing more than to play this year and milk that 9 million dollar payday. I mean, get real. I'm not sure HE IS SURE he will be the same man. That's why we should ship him to Minnesota, trade spots, and be done with it. They can draft at 7 and 25 and pick up Pryce and Pat Williams and K-Will are inside, guaranteing Pryce will be single teamed at DE. It just makes too much sense. At that point, Minnesota doesn't reach for a DE at 7, they take one of the two WR's or the top back and move Bennett for a bag of pretzles. It's like they are bluffing while they think the King wears clothes. Yes, the King's garment is very pretty and shining today don't you think? I expect at least SOME movement tommorow. But the King has no clothes.

03-23-2005, 02:15 AM	#25
Ballhawk Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 4,132	Mock, I just do not see any value in shipping Pryce to Minn except to dump his salary and get him out of the AFC...25 to 18 is not going to land you anything better. I say ship Pryce and Rueben off to Clevland for the #34 pick (Baltimore matched Taylers offer sheet so they are still in the market for a RB).

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