the DEFINITIVE word on the CBS/DNC forged ANG documents

[Exile_In_SJ]

from the belmont club blog. this tells it all. The Documents are forged and the everyone knows it.

Belmont Club
History and history in the making



Sunday, September 12, 2004

Modern Times
With the New York Times reporting that a key 60 Minutes source has turned on CBS, their earlier decision to "stand by their story" has doubled a bet on a losing hand. Retired General Bobby Hodges of the Texas Air National Guard repudiated the documents which CBS said he would corroborate.

Sept. 11 - A former National Guard commander who CBS News said had helped convince it of the authenticity of documents raising new questions about President Bush's military service said on Saturday that he did not believe they were genuine. The commander, Bobby Hodges, said in a telephone interview that network producers had never showed him the documents but had only read them to him over the phone days before they were featured Wednesday in a "60 Minutes" broadcast. After seeing the documents on Friday, Mr. Hodges said, he concluded that they were falsified.

Worse, Hodges virtually accused the network of deceptive journalism. Commenting on the process through which he was interviewed, "Mr. Hodges, 74, who was group commander of Mr. Bush's squadron in the 147th Fighter Group at Ellington Field in Houston in the early 1970's, said that when someone from CBS called him on Monday night and read him documents, 'I thought they were handwritten notes.'" They were not; they were supposedly typewritten notes which may now turn out to be forgeries prepared on Word for Windows.

CBS's last hope had been to show that Colonel Killian -- whose wife maintains did not type -- prepared the documents on an IBM Selectric or Composer. Those probabilities took a dive now that experimental attempts to reproduce the document on such equipment have failed. Worse, Computer Science Professor Robert Cartwright of Rice University (hat tip: Hugh Hewitt) shows that the variable letter spacing based on the adjacency of letters found in CBS's documents was computationally impossible on any mechanical device available in 1973. Modern word processing processing programs, like Microsoft Word, contain information in the font definition which, for example, tuck a small "i" under the overhang of a capital "T". No mechanical typewriter then available could do this.

... in 1971, even the most powerful available computer systems were not equipped to produce documents like the Killian documents. In Fall 1971, I entered graduate school in Computer Science at Stanford. I soon gravitated to the Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, which had the most powerful time-sharing system (a PDP-10) on campus. In either 1972 or 1973, Xerox gave the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory a prototype xerographic printer called a "Xerox Graphics Printer (XGP)". Two similar prototypes were given to the MIT Computer Science Department and the Carnegie-Mellon Computer Science Department. The programming staff at the Stanford AI Laboratory was thrilled with the gift because it was the first opportunity that computer science research community had to develop software to support printer quality type-setting. The three Computer Science Departments cooperated in developing the word processing programs to support the XGP. I wrote my first published research paper and my doctoral disseration using the XGP in Spring 1976. It would take another decade before comparable word processing systems were available to most computer science researchers on minicomputers running Unix. It would take nearly another decade before they were widely used on personal computers.

The typed text in the "Killian memos" is kerned (check out letter combinations like "fo" and "fe"), but the (IBM) Composer text is clearly not. Kerning is a computationally complex task beyond the capacity of any mechanical typewriter--even one as expensive and elaborate as the IBM Selectric Composer.

The CBS attempt to escape the kill zone and regain the offensive on the Bush National Guard story appears to have failed. By clutching the faked documents closer to the center of their story they may have effectively destroyed their own expose. But the true magnitude of the catastrophe is hinted at by the Los Angeles Times. In an article entitled No Disputing It: Blogs Are Major Players, Peter Wallsten says:

These days, CBS News anchor Dan Rather and his colleagues at the network's magazine program "60 Minutes II" are enduring an unusual wave of second-guessing by some of the public and fellow journalists. For that, they can thank "Buckhead." It was a late-night blog posting by this mystery Net-izen that first questioned the validity of documents Rather cited Wednesday as proof that George W. Bush did not fulfill his National Guard duty more than 30 years ago.

Although the article half-humorously suggests "Buckhead" is actually Karl Rove, "Buckhead" maintains he acted alone. "But once I posted the comment to Free Republic I was no longer working alone, and that is the real point of the story about the story about the story." The real catastrophe for CBS is that Killian incident is probably not an isolated setback so much as proof that maneuvers which worked in the past can no longer be attempted with impunity. The equivalent of the longbow had arrived on the media scene. When the longbow was first deployed on the European battlefield, it was obviously a formidable weapon.

Such was the power of the Longbow, that contemporary accounts claim that at short range, an arrow fired from it could penetrate 4 inches of seasoned oak. The armored knight, considered at one time to be the leviathan of the battlefield, could now be felled at ranges up to 200 yards by a single arrow. One account recalls a knight being pinned to his horse by an arrow that passed through both armored thighs, with the horse and saddle between!

But it was long years before it was taken seriously. After all, mounted cavalry was the aristocratic weapon and the longbow that of the despised yeomen, the medieval equivalent of bloggers in their pajamas. It took Crecy, Poitiers and finally Agincourt to bring home the fact that the longbow threat was real. As the Christian Science Monitor remarked:

The English longbow plied by yeomen ended the military power and social reign of knights. "Shining" armor fell to a taut string, a cured piece of wood, and a tipped arrow. The military dynamic of the Middle Ages - knight, squire, and armorer - ceased.

It did not bring an end to history: a new dynamic replaced the old, but an era had passed.

[Exile_In_SJ]

furthermore, here is an expert in typography....saying the documents are fake..
Computer typography guru Joseph M. Newcomer (posted on little green footballs)

http://www.flounder.com/bush.htm
The Bush "Guard memos" are forgeries! Home
Resume


First off, before I start getting a lot of the wrong kind of mail: I am not a fan of George Bush. But I am even less a fan of attempts to commit fraud, and particularly by a complete and utter failure of those we entrust to ensure that if the news is at least accurate. I know it is asking far too much to expect the news to be unbiased. But the people involved should not actually lie to us, or promulgate lies created by hoaxers, through their own incompetence.

There has been a lot of activity on the Internet recently concerning the forged CBS documents. I do not even dignify this statement with the traditional weasel-word “alleged”, because it takes approximately 30 seconds for anyone who is knowledgeable in the history of electronic document production to recognize this whole collection is certainly a forgery, and approximately five minutes to prove to anyone technically competent that the documents are a forgery. I was able to replicate two of the documents within a few minutes. At time I a writing this, CBS is stonewalling. They were hoaxed, pure and simple. CBS failed to exercise anything even approximately like due diligence. I am not sure what sort of "expert" they called in to authenticate the document, but anything I say about his qualifications to judge digital typography is likely to be considered libelous (no matter how true they are) and I would not say them in print in a public forum.


This letter concentrates only on the raw technology of the fonts and printing. It does not address many of the issues others on the Internet have raised, such as the incorrect usage of military titles and abbreviations, incorrect formatting relative to prevailing 1972 military standards, etc. I am not qualified to comment on these. All I can say is that the technology that produced this document was not possible in 1972 in the sort of equipment that would have been available outside publishing houses, and which required substantial training and expertise to use, and it replicates exactly the technologies of Microsoft Word and Microsoft TrueType Fonts.

It is therefore my expert opinion that these documents are modern forgeries.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

"Definitive?"

All you've proven here is that Hodges (an old Bush family friend) is a major flip-flopper.

[watermock]

Good God.

What part of impossible is beyond your comprehension?

[patteeu]

LABF would have been a good boat captain. He isn't afraid to go down with his ship.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by patteeu

LABF would have been a good boat captain. He isn't afraid to go down with his ship.

Can't stop LMAO at the fact that Patty and the rest of the right-wing brain trust actually regard the foregoing cut 'n' paste from right-wing blogs as "definitive proof" of the alleged forgery of the Bush AWOL documents.

Too funny.

Hate to rain on your parade, but all you really have are a few "experts" who disagree with those experts who support the authenticity of the documents.

(And, wouldn't you know it--these 'experts' are linked w/ the Swift Boat Goons for Bush.)

CBS and its experts are standing by their reporting.

Forgery of government documents is a crime.

Wake us up when you actually have a perp and/or proof of guilt.

In the meantime, nice effort to deflect from the subject of Smirk's Guard service (or lack thereof.)

[errand]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

CBS and its experts are standing by their reporting.

Forgery of government documents is a crime.

Wake us up when you actually have a perp and/or proof of guilt.

What about an admission by one of their new star witnesses?

On 60 minutes tonight they interviewed a woman who allegedly was Killian's right hand woman, and she says that those documents are forgeries.....of course the main reason they interviewed her was because she claims that the info in the forged documents are true.....

so now, CBS has changed their story to "OK, their fakes, but what they contained is true...and we havea Democrat voter who worked as Killian's secretary to prove this!"

[Raider Bill]

Dan rather is widely known as a Democratic supporter.

His daughter is a fund raiser for the Kerry camapign.


Barnes, the guy in the story who claims he helped Bush get into the National Guard is also a Kerry campaign fund raiser.

There are claims being made that the Kerry campaign had these documents and possibly handed them over to CBS.

CBS interviewed Killian family members and other people who were suspicious of the authenticity of the documents, yet CBS did not air ANY opposing viewpoints in their story. CBS did not inform the viewer that Barnes was a Kerry campaign fund raiser either.

CBS also did not bring forth the source of the documents, nor did they bring forth anybody who can cooberate the story told in the documents.

The release of these documents, if authentic, would be considered illegal.

At the very least this is extremely shoddy journalism, at worst they do not have any witnesses(National Guard officials) and this story was a blantant and intentional character assisination attempt and hatchet job by an "news" organization acting on behalf of a political campaign.

[Elevation 5280']

**BREAKING NEWS**

It has been discovered that Carl Rove has masterminded the 3 hurricanes into hitting Florida so that President Bush can be looked upon more favorably by potential voters by expediting disaster relief!

There ya go labf....jump on it....got a printer? CBS' e-mail address?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Elevation 5280'

**BREAKING NEWS**

It has been discovered that Carl Rove has masterminded the 3 hurricanes into hitting Florida so that President Bush can be looked upon more favorably by potential voters by expediting disaster relief!

There ya go labf....jump on it....got a printer? CBS' e-mail address?

I think you have the wrong number Bubba.

It's the wingnuts on your side who are off in conspiracy theory la-la land these days (see Smear Boat Vets and the proponents of the CBS/DNC link.)

If you're going to join the discussion then you really should try to keep up.

[Elevation 5280']

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

I think you have the wrong number Bubba.

It's the wingnuts on your side who are off in conspiracy theory la-la land these days (see Smear Boat Vets and the proponents of the CBS/DNC link.)

If you're going to join the discussion then you really should try to keep up.

Yeahhhhhhh, right..... maybe I should make like you and stick my fingers in my ears and make noise so I can't hear when someone is bringing an opposing view or making a valid point.

Why don't you try actually discussing issues as opposed to name calling, pasting cartoons and repeating the DNC talking points?

Actually I know the reason....nevermind....

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Elevation 5280'

Yeahhhhhhh, right..... maybe I should make like you and stick my fingers in my ears and make noise so I can't hear when someone is bringing an opposing view or making a valid point.

Um, you're already doing these things, Bubba. Sticking their fingers in their ears and covering their eyes is a way of life for the bush sheeple (e.g., non-stop coverage of Swift Boat Goons/alleged forgery to divert attention from AWOL Boy's record, Iraq, 9/11, Plamegate, the economy, jobs, healthcare, etc.)

Originally Posted by Elevation 5280'

Why don't you try actually discussing issues as opposed to name calling, pasting cartoons and repeating the DNC talking points?

I do plenty of discussing, Bubba. It's just that the average Bubba is more likely to notice cartoons first (since 'toons are easier for him to grasp than tough stuff like facts, logic, etc.)

[watermock]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

I think you have the wrong number Bubba.

It's the wingnuts on your side who are off in conspiracy theory la-la land these days (see Smear Boat Vets and the proponents of the CBS/DNC link.)

If you're going to join the discussion then you really should try to keep up.

This is so damn funny. His name isn't Bubba. There is no conspiracy la-la land. That's your territory you dimwit. The CBS fiasco wasn't the Bush campaign you moron. Neither was the Swift Boat accusations.

We are certainly "keeping up". Bubba isn't the President, Wingnuts are not even real, conspiracy La-La land is your turf. Remind me to "keep up".

How Amusing. It's blowing up in your idiotic face. Go check the Gallup Poll.

[RaiderH8r]

This is hilarious. The wheels are falling off the cart and the whole election is slipping away from Mr. Heinz-Kerry. 49 days to come up with a plan and a message Johnny boy, whatchya gonna do? HA HA HA. Let's talk more about the Swift Boat and Guard Service. HA HA HA. Playing right into the GOP political machine's hands. HA HA HA. Even "Bubba" told Johnny boy to give it a rest and did he listen? No, he's Johnny boy and his wife told him not to. Maybe he's still trying to make up his mind on this one. HA HA HA

[Rohirrim]

I am pleased to see the major media in the U.S. vigorously investigating and debating the provenance of the CBS documents alleging that President Bush did not deserve an honorable discharge from the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam era. Just look at the firestorm! Newsweek, Time, The New York Times, The Washington Post and every other major paper and media outlet (not to mention the talk shows!) are aflame with the arguments, pro and con, regarding the authenticity of these documents.


Just imagine if the press had exercised this kind of diligent fervor when Bush and Cheney were hawking the connection between Saddam and 9/11, or when Condoleeza Rice was warning us of “mushroom clouds” in “forty five minutes,” or even when Colin Powell was presenting his slide show of “mobile, biological weapons labs” to the UN? Would we still be tuning into our nightly news for the latest body count from Iraq?

What does this current document flap represent for the media – a make-up test?

[freak6]

The typewriters used on the memos were in the TANG offices........

[catcalls]

Pointing out the possibility of Rove or RNC involvement in creating or planting the forged documents, if that's what they are, is no more the work of a "conspiracy nut" than blaming the DNC. If the documents are forgeries, then there was a conspiracy of some sort, somewhere. While the knee-jerk simplicity of blaming the DNC is understandable, you don't have to be "unhinged" to wonder (a) why Democrats would feel the need to forge documents that merely amplify truths about Bush's record that are ascertainable from authentic sources, and (b) whether Karl Rove, who bugged his own office during the 1986 Texas gubernatorial campaign, might have planned exactly what we are witnessing: a complete diversion from legitimate questions about Bush's military record.

[Exile_In_SJ]

Uhm, why would the DNC do this? They are losing the election and needed something quick to bash Bush with. It's become obvious that they miscalculated and this is blowing up in their faces.

Rohirrim, the major media isn't looking at Bush and his record, they are looking to see how far this goes from Rathers nose and into the DNC. They are investigating whether CBS did this on purpose and if there is a connection between Kerry and Rather

This is now being called Rathergate (with the th superscripted)

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Exile_In_SJ

Uhm, why would the DNC do this? They are losing the election and needed something quick to bash Bush with. It's become obvious that they miscalculated and this is blowing up in their faces.

Rohirrim, the major media isn't looking at Bush and his record, they are looking to see how far this goes from Rathers nose and into the DNC. They are investigating whether CBS did this on purpose and if there is a connection between Kerry and Rather

This is now being called Rathergate (with the th superscripted)

Yeah, I know. Now this story has the whiff of scandal, so the press is going hog wild over it. They showed very little interest into whether or not the allegations against Bush were true. My point is, I just wish they'd invest as much investigative zeal when our President is proposing to take the country to war as they do on this insipid little "Rathergate." It might be a fun scandal and dismantle Rather's career (not to mention the rep of CBS) but nobody is going to die over it.

That's my whole point. The scandal sells, the war is ho-hum. As far as where the documents came from? Given that nobody seems to know, it's all speculation at this point. But of course, speculation is almost as much fun as scandal.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Yeah, I know. Now this story has the whiff of scandal, so the press is going hog wild over it. They showed very little interest into whether or not the allegations against Bush were true. My point is, I just wish they'd invest as much investigative zeal when our President is proposing to take the country to war as they do on this insipid little "Rathergate." It might be a fun scandal and dismantle Rather's career (not to mention the rep of CBS) but nobody is going to die over it.

That's my whole point. The scandal sells, the war is ho-hum. As far as where the documents came from? Given that nobody seems to know, it's all speculation at this point. But of course, speculation is almost as much fun as scandal.

No one is going to die over it, but that doesn't mean it isn't incredibly important. No one was going to die over the 3rd rate burglary at the Watergate back in 1972 either, but I doubt if you would have poo pooed that one.

Somebody does know where the forgeries came from. Dan Rather and his CBS cronies know. Journalistic ethics don't prevent you from revealing your sources when they are feeding you bad information. At this point, CBS' refusal to even have their documents examined by independent 3rd parties makes it look like they are protecting someone. Either they are protecting their own reputations thinking that this whole thing will eventually blow over and be forgotten as long as they refuse to admit guilt and as long as they don't let anyone review the evidence, or they are protecting their source whoever that is.

Anyone who ever claimed to be against sleazy smearjob tactics in campaigns should be calling on CBS to invite an investigation. Where are the swiftvet detractors now?

[Exile_In_SJ]

damn this is funny, from the washington post via powerline blog....

The Post says that CBS is now putting its principal reliance on one Bill Glennon, an "information technology consultant." This is the same Bill Glennon, as Little Green Footballs points out, whom Time magazine described yesterday as a former typewriter repairman.

But what's really funny, as Tim Blair points out, is that Glennon first entered the fray as a commenter on the far-left Daily Kos web site! So, after sneering at bloggers non-stop for four days, CBS was finally reduced to tracking down a former typewriter repairman who posted a comment on Kos and putting him forward as their chief defender. Wonderful.

[Exile_In_SJ]

that's why this is so funny, I'm sure Kerry and Rather thought this would have the same effect on Bush as the swift boat vets did on Kerry (namely fall precipitously in the polls). Instead of refelecting badly on Bush (as they hoped) it backfired and has exploded in Rathers face. It may even, if it is tied to the Kerry camp, explode in his face.
Now most people with even a modicum of intelligence know these 'documents' are fake and are waiting to see what happens.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Exile_In_SJ

that's why this is so funny, I'm sure Kerry and Rather thought this would have the same effect on Bush as the swift boat vets did on Kerry (namely fall precipitously in the polls). Instead of refelecting badly on Bush (as they hoped) it backfired and has exploded in Rathers face. It may even, if it is tied to the Kerry camp, explode in his face.
Now most people with even a modicum of intelligence know these 'documents' are fake and are waiting to see what happens.

I haven't heard a single, reputable news organization link this to Kerry. Do you have a scoop, or is it just your desires overcoming your ethics?

[Exile_In_SJ]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I haven't heard a single, reputable news organization link this to Kerry. Do you have a scoop, or is it just your desires overcoming your ethics?

here it is,

Anatomy of a Forgery
By The Prowler

Published 9/10/2004 12:09:06 AM

More than six weeks ago, an opposition research staffer for the Democratic National Committee received documents purportedly written by President George W. Bush's Texas Air National Guard squadron commander, the late Col. Jerry Killian.

The oppo researcher claimed the source was "a retired military officer." According to a DNC staffer, the documents were seen by both senior staff members at the DNC, as well as the Kerry campaign.

"More than a couple people heard about the papers," says the DNC staffer. "I've heard that they ended up with the Kerry campaign, for them to decide to how to proceed, and presumably they were handed over to 60 Minutes, which used them the other night. But I know this much. When there was discussion here, there were doubts raised about their authenticity."

The concerns arose from the sourcing. "It wasn't clear that our source for the documents would have had access to them. Our person couldn't confirm from what file, from what original source they came from."

The documents that CBS News used were not documents from any of Bush's personnel files from his time in the National Guard. Rather, CBS News stated that they were documents uncovered in the personnel files of Killian. That would explain why the White House or the Pentagon had never before released or even seen them.

According to a Kerry campaign source, there was little gossip about the supposedly hot documents inside the office of the campaign on McPherson Square. "Those documents were not something anyone was talking about or trying to generate buzz on," says the staffer. "It wasn't like there were small groups of people talking about this as a bombshell. I think people here weren't sure what to make of it, because provenance of these documents was uncertain."

A CBS producer, who initially tipped off The Prowler about the 60 Minutes story, says that despite seeking professional assurances that the documents were legitimate, there was uncertainty even among the group of producers and researchers working on the story.

"The problem was we had one set of documents from Bush's file that had Killian calling Bush 'an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot.' And someone who Killian said 'performed in an outstanding manner.' Then you have these new documents and the tone and content are so different."

The CBS producer said that some alarms bells went off last week when the signatures and initials of Killian on the documents in hand did not match up with other documents available on the public record, but producers chose to move ahead with the story. "This was too hot not to push. If there were doubts, those people didn't show it," says the producer, who works on a rival CBS News program.

Now, the producer says, there is growing concern inside the building on 57th Street that they may have been suckered by the Kerry campaign. "There is a school of thought here that the Kerry people dumped this in our laps, figuring we'd do the heavy lifting on the story. That maybe they had doubts about these documents but hoped we'd get more information," says the producer. "If that's the case, then we're bigger fools than we already appear to be judging by all the chatter about how these documents could be forgeries."

ABC News' political unit held a conference call at 7:00 p.m. Thursday evening to discuss the memo and its potential ramifications should the documents turn out to be a forgery. That meeting took place around the time that the deceased Killian's son made public statements questioning the documents' authenticity.

According to one ABC News employee, some reporters believe that the Kerry campaign as well as the DNC were parties in duping CBS, but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I haven't heard a single, reputable news organization link this to Kerry. Do you have a scoop, or is it just your desires overcoming your ethics?

What do his ethics have to do with this. Is there some kind of OrangeMane code of conduct that requires you to have ironclad proof of wrongdoing before casting aspersions on the JFKerry campaign? Even if there were, he didn't make any allegation, he just said it could be bad for Kerry IF a connection were discovered.

My suspect is Terry McAuliffe and his crew at the DNC. At this point it is just wishful thinking though. Dan Rather should resign in disgrace, but instead he will probably go on David Letterman and joke about it as though it was much ado over nothing.