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Old 02-15-2013, 01:19 PM   #1
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What a boat load of horsecrap. The feds want to buy 1.6 BILLION ROUNDS of ammo! That's a staggering figure. At 15 million rounds a year that's over 100 years worth of supply:

http://news.yahoo.com/homeland-secur...190840538.html

The real reason they want all this ammo is to prevent citizens from buying it, and to drive up the cost. Next thing the feds will do is slap an exorbitant tax on ammo. Just watch. It's comming.

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Old 02-15-2013, 01:22 PM   #2
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This, of course, is in addition to all the ammo the military absorbs for the "war on terror."
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:27 PM   #3
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War, Religion and Politics Forum. . .

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Old 02-15-2013, 01:41 PM   #4
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War, Religion and Politics Forum. . .

A thread will be coming to your part of the Mane very shortly. Please hold.
This is the offseason... and IMHO this is not about war, nor is it about religion, nor is it about politics. It's about the feds doing something completely unjustifiable, that is, buying a completely unecessary amount of pistol and rifle ammunition.

Forget about the cost, forget about fact that local law enforcement is also screwed by this policy, forget about the staggering figure for just a moment and ponder the greater ramifications of this policy. It's just an inexcusable amount of small arms ammunition.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:30 PM   #5
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....unless the its a Dem everything is ok. Repub drinks water its national news.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:43 PM   #6
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....unless the its a Dem everything is ok. Repub drinks water its national news.
How embarrassing is that. A "career ender"? Yep. Dems really are that immature.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:32 PM   #7
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In step with this is the fact that the Armed forces no longer sell their used brass. They now shred it and sell as scrap. Reaping a fraction of the value.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:39 PM   #8
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I don't think this is the main reason you should question your government, just saying...
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:54 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
What a boat load of horsecrap. The feds want to buy 1.6 BILLION ROUNDS of ammo! That's a staggering figure. At 15 million rounds a year that's over 100 years worth of supply:

http://news.yahoo.com/homeland-secur...190840538.html

The real reason they want all this ammo is to prevent citizens from buying it, and to drive up the cost. Next thing the feds will do is slap an exorbitant tax on ammo. Just watch. It's comming.
This thread is horse crap.
Is our military,police suppose to use paint balls.
BTW,are ammo producers limited in the amt of ammo they can make.
Is there some ammo mine out there that's going dry.
Let me let you in on a little secret,they can make more ammo.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:38 PM   #10
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A few notes:

Quote:
says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.
To me that reads that this particular training center uses as many as 15 million rounds per year. So the 1.6B rounds would be a 100 year supply for this facility, not for all of homeland security. 1.6 Billion rounds would supply 20 such facilities for 5 years (which is the noted duration of the contract).

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Dixon said one of the contracts would allow Homeland Security to buy up to 750 million rounds of ammunition over the next five years for its training facilities. ... More than 90 federal agencies and 70,000 agents and officers used the department's training center last year.
750 Million rounds for 5 years with 70,000 agents per year is roughly 2000 rounds per agent trained at DHS facilities. Is that a lot? I have no idea. The contract also notes that "up to" 750 Million rounds can be purchased, which may mean that they don't purchase this many. The contract probably has a minimum amount as well to ensure good pricing.

Ammunition purchased in the US on the whole was about 10-12 Billion rounds last year as far as I can tell. This government purchase would account for 2.5%-3.5% of the total market. A significant portion to be sure, but enough to intentionally drive prices significantly higher? I wonder if the logic doesn't work the other way? The American public has been significantly escalating their guns and ammo purchases over the past several years, which has put significant pressure on pricing and supply. If I'm a large consumer of ammunition, like the DHS, I'm probably also looking to make large volume purchases to keep cost down, and ensure adequate supply over the next several years. Or maybe I'm just looking to start a war against the american public. Hard to say.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:46 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by mkporter View Post
A few notes:



To me that reads that this particular training center uses as many as 15 million rounds per year. So the 1.6B rounds would be a 100 year supply for this facility, not for all of homeland security. 1.6 Billion rounds would supply 20 such facilities for 5 years (which is the noted duration of the contract).



750 Million rounds for 5 years with 70,000 agents per year is roughly 2000 rounds per agent trained at DHS facilities. Is that a lot? I have no idea. The contract also notes that "up to" 750 Million rounds can be purchased, which may mean that they don't purchase this many. The contract probably has a minimum amount as well to ensure good pricing.

Ammunition purchased in the US on the whole was about 10-12 Billion rounds last year as far as I can tell. This government purchase would account for 2.5%-3.5% of the total market. A significant portion to be sure, but enough to intentionally drive prices significantly higher? I wonder if the logic doesn't work the other way? The American public has been significantly escalating their guns and ammo purchases over the past several years, which has put significant pressure on pricing and supply. If I'm a large consumer of ammunition, like the DHS, I'm probably also looking to make large volume purchases to keep cost down, and ensure adequate supply over the next several years. Or maybe I'm just looking to start a war against the american public. Hard to say.
With the war on terror and the US Military, that 10-12 billion rounds gets soaked up quickly. The US Federal government is supposed to have it's own ammo producing facility but they have that thing maxed out already. So now they are absorbing up all the other ammo producers with this bogus purchase of 1.6 billion rounds JUST FOR THE FEDS.

Guess what local law enforcement, it's gonna be harder and more expensive for you to get ammo too. It's just for the Feds. And it is not for the US Military.

The reason there has been such a mad rush by the average US citizen to buy guns and ammo if because people are scared of the current administration and rightly so. Just look at this DHS BS buying up 1.6 billion rounds of ammo just for the Feds. Add in the fact that there's already legislation being written to limit magazine capacity and types of guns you can own and that is why people are buying everything is sight. People are paranoid and BO is not helping the situation.

Theres a perfect storm going on right now--there's the US Military absorbing a huge supply of ammo because of the "war on terror", there's the US Consumer freaking out because of the idiot in the white house, there's all the local law enforcement people trying to buy ammo and now, wouldn't you know it, just to bottle neck everything up more, the DHS decides it's gonna buy another 1.6 billion rounds, because, yah know, there's soooo many threats all over the place and the feds just have to have a billion + rounds for all their training because there's just so many terrorists running round killing people!

BS.

This is a power play by the feds. It's nothing more than limiting the ability of the average citizen to buy ammo. Not only that, it limits local law enforcement too although I'm sure they will get priority over the average joe. The next thing that will happen is the feds will limit the amount of ammo you can buy at one time (they are already trying to stop online ammo purchases) and they will then slap a 50% tax on all ammo purchases.

The feds don't care about the states. They don't care about the people in Wyoming. They don't care about the local police who really are the FIRST RESPONDERS to an attack or a problem. Nope, the feds only car about Big Brother.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:08 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
With the war on terror and the US Military, that 10-12 billion rounds gets soaked up quickly. The US Federal government is supposed to have it's own ammo producing facility but they have that thing maxed out already. So now they are absorbing up all the other ammo producers with this bogus purchase of 1.6 billion rounds JUST FOR THE FEDS.
That 10-12 billion number was for non gov't sources. With 300 Million guns in this country, that comes out to 40 bullets per gun per year. I hope most of you gun owners use a lot more than that each year to stay proficient with your fire arms, and ensure that they are in proper working order.

Quote:
The reason there has been such a mad rush by the average US citizen to buy guns and ammo if because people are scared of the current administration and rightly so. Just look at this DHS BS buying up 1.6 billion rounds of ammo just for the Feds. Add in the fact that there's already legislation being written to limit magazine capacity and types of guns you can own and that is why people are buying everything is sight. People are paranoid and BO is not helping the situation.
You hit the nail on the head here. People are paranoid. But what has BO really done to warrant this type of paranoia? Pretty much nothing in the way of gun legislation in his first term, even though he had a democratic senate and congress for a couple of years. It clearly wasn't one of his priorities. The only reason there is legislation now is that the general public wants it because of the horrific gun incidents recently. But here, he's just responding to public pressure. And the DHS contracts (note that they have not purchased all of this ammo, they just have contract with manufacturers that allow them to purchase this much) have come well after the general public's gun's and ammo surge, and are for a 5 year duration which limits the market impact. The problem is the cost of copper. Go yell at the Chinese.

Quote:
This is a power play by the feds. It's nothing more than limiting the ability of the average citizen to buy ammo. Not only that, it limits local law enforcement too although I'm sure they will get priority over the average joe. The next thing that will happen is the feds will limit the amount of ammo you can buy at one time (they are already trying to stop online ammo purchases) and they will then slap a 50% tax on all ammo purchases.

The feds don't care about the states. They don't care about the people in Wyoming. They don't care about the local police who really are the FIRST RESPONDERS to an attack or a problem. Nope, the feds only car about Big Brother.
I just don't see why anyone thinks that this administration gives a rat's ass about private gun ownership. Find me some legislation that Obama put any effort into passing during his first term. What happened after Ft Hood? What happened after Giffords was shot? What happened after Virginia Tech? "We need to have a serious discussion about guns!" End of story. What happened after Aurora? "We need to have a serious discussion about guns!" Nothing happened. Then Sandy Hook happened, and for those of us who are not nut jobs who think it was faked, it was pretty much one of the most horrific things you can imagine. The build up of all these events has created significant pressure from a majority of the general public (You know, the citizens of the united states) to do something to address gun control. Politicians being who they are, follow suit with proposed legislation.

Even after all this, despite many conservatives beliefs otherwise, most liberals, myself and pretty much everyone I know included, still support the right to own firearms. We just think it's reasonable to discuss what the bounds of these rights should be. All rights have bounds, because if extended without bounds, your rights will begin to infringe on mine. Even the most revered right in our amended constitution, the freedom of speech, has it's limits. The 2nd amendment is no different.

Remember, that while we disagree on many issues, liberal's are not the opposites of conservatives. Lower taxes might always be the answer for the right, but that doesn't mean higher taxes are always the answer for the left. Unrestricted firearm ownership may be the goal of the right, but that doesn't mean that the left wants to eliminate firearm ownership. That's just a fantasy.

I'm 1000x more likely to get intentionally or accidentally shot by a private, previously law abiding citizen, than I am to suffer from a tyrannical government takeover, not even to mention non-law abiding citizens. You'll have to pardon me for playing the odds and being more concerned about how we regulate guns. Same reason why I'm glad we've put so much emphasis on regulating car ownership and usage. Gotta play the odds.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:35 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by mkporter View Post
That 10-12 billion number was for non gov't sources. With 300 Million guns in this country, that comes out to 40 bullets per gun per year. I hope most of you gun owners use a lot more than that each year to stay proficient with your fire arms, and ensure that they are in proper working order.



You hit the nail on the head here. People are paranoid. But what has BO really done to warrant this type of paranoia? Pretty much nothing in the way of gun legislation in his first term, even though he had a democratic senate and congress for a couple of years. It clearly wasn't one of his priorities. The only reason there is legislation now is that the general public wants it because of the horrific gun incidents recently. But here, he's just responding to public pressure. And the DHS contracts (note that they have not purchased all of this ammo, they just have contract with manufacturers that allow them to purchase this much) have come well after the general public's gun's and ammo surge, and are for a 5 year duration which limits the market impact. The problem is the cost of copper. Go yell at the Chinese.



I just don't see why anyone thinks that this administration gives a rat's ass about private gun ownership. Find me some legislation that Obama put any effort into passing during his first term. 1.What happened after Ft Hood? What happened after Giffords was shot? What happened after Virginia Tech? "We need to have a serious discussion about guns!" End of story. What happened after Aurora? "We need to have a serious discussion about guns!" Nothing happened. Then Sandy Hook happened, and for those of us who are not nut jobs who think it was faked, it was pretty much one of the most horrific things you can imagine. The build up of all these events has created significant pressure from a majority of the general public (You know, the citizens of the united states) to do something to address gun control. Politicians being who they are, follow suit with proposed legislation.

Even after all this, despite many conservatives beliefs otherwise, most liberals, myself and pretty much everyone I know included, still support the right to own firearms. We just think it's reasonable to discuss what the bounds of these rights should be. All rights have bounds, because if extended without bounds, your rights will begin to infringe on mine. Even the most revered right in our amended constitution, the freedom of speech, has it's limits. 2.The 2nd amendment is no different.

Remember, that while we disagree on many issues, liberal's are not the opposites of conservatives. Lower taxes might always be the answer for the right, but that doesn't mean higher taxes are always the answer for the left. 3.Unrestricted firearm ownership may be the goal of the right, but that doesn't mean that the left wants to eliminate firearm ownership. That's just a fantasy.

4.I'm 1000x more likely to get intentionally or accidentally shot by a private, previously law abiding citizen, than I am to suffer from a tyrannical government takeover, not even to mention non-law abiding citizens. You'll have to pardon me for playing the odds and being more concerned about how we regulate guns. Same reason why I'm glad we've put so much emphasis on regulating car ownership and usage. Gotta play the odds.
1. All those incidents involved people who already broke the laws on the books. Again, you are talking about people who broke laws to carry out killings and crimes and again, you are now punishing all law abiding citizens for the acts of a few. We live in a country of 300m people and you just pointed out what, 5 incidents where some crazy nuts went ballistic on innocent people? Again, over and over and again, this is the act of insane people that broke multiple laws to perpetrate crimes.

If you are going to restrict gun rights for everyone based on the sick actions of a few sick people, then you better also put laws in the books about the violence Hollywood and the video game industry pump out to the masses. If you want to blame the violent incidents on the availability of guns and NOT on the individual's responsible for these horrific crimes then you have to point the finger at the entertainment and gaming industry for spewing out violent movies and games over the last 40 years that coincide with these incidents.

Yes?? You cannot argue with me on this point. I will only accept a YES from you on this. Otherwise we have nothing to discuss.

2. There are already restrictions to the 2nd amendment. I can't own a fully automatic gun. I can't own a rocket launcher. I can't own plastic explosives and such. I can't own an armed tank nor an armed jet. I can't own an armed helicopter, etc., etc., etc.

3. See point 2. Nobody is asking for "unrestricted right to bear 'arms'".

4. You simply cannot predict the future. Just because the feds up to this point and time haveing invaded your home and put a gun to your head and forced you to do something you didn't want to do does not mean this won't happen in the future, even in the immediate future. You are banking on the past which limited government much more than today and the foreseeable future. I'll take my chances with an armed law abiding citizen any day of the week over trusting the federal government with my safety.

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Old 02-15-2013, 02:39 PM   #14
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This thread is horse crap.
Is our military,police suppose to use paint balls. 1.6 BILLION rounds for ONE agency
BTW,are ammo producers limited in the amt of ammo they can make.Yes, just like every other producer of goods. Manufacturers have supply pipelines that are configured based upon past, current, and projected need. Try telling a bullet manufacturer, oh hey can you crank out a couple extra BILLION bullets for me this month? The gov't bought all mine
Is there some ammo mine out there that's going dry. If there was an ammo mine I would live there.
Let me let you in on a little secret,they can make more ammo. Cute, but I don't think you know what you're talking about.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:10 PM   #15
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This thread is horse crap.
Is our military,police suppose to use paint balls. 1.6 BILLION rounds for ONE agency
BTW,are ammo producers limited in the amt of ammo they can make.Yes, just like every other producer of goods. Manufacturers have supply pipelines that are configured based upon past, current, and projected need. Try telling a bullet manufacturer, oh hey can you crank out a couple extra BILLION bullets for me this month? The gov't bought all mine
Is there some ammo mine out there that's going dry. If there was an ammo mine I would live there.
Let me let you in on a little secret,they can make more ammo. Cute, but I don't think you know what you're talking about.
Its 90 agencies that fall under one department.

Its about 400Million bullets a year, so not as direct of a hit on the manufacturer "pipeline" as 1.6B all at once. 400 Million gets spread out over a year to make about 32 Million a month - not the 1.6B/month you implied. Also - last year ICE bought almost 500Million bullets.

Will you invite me over to your ammo mine for tea and scrumpets when and if you ever find the magical place. It would be interesting for sure.

Not sure if any of us know what we're talking about.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:16 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
What a boat load of horsecrap. The feds want to buy 1.6 BILLION ROUNDS of ammo! That's a staggering figure. At 15 million rounds a year that's over 100 years worth of supply:

http://news.yahoo.com/homeland-secur...190840538.html

The real reason they want all this ammo is to prevent citizens from buying it, and to drive up the cost. Next thing the feds will do is slap an exorbitant tax on ammo. Just watch. It's comming.
in Missouri and New York the Democrats have already submitted legislation to confiscate weapons from law abiding citizens...... add in the fact that Barack Obama has already stated that there should be a civillian security force that needs to be as well-armed, equipped and funded as our military.....can you say der Sturmabteilung?

I once saw a movie where only the police and the military had guns it was called Schindler's List.....
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:42 PM   #17
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in Missouri and New York the Democrats have already submitted legislation to confiscate weapons from law abiding citizens...... add in the fact that Barack Obama has already stated that there should be a civillian security force that needs to be as well-armed, equipped and funded as our military.....can you say der Sturmabteilung?

I once saw a movie where only the police and the military had guns it was called Schindler's List.....
http://propagandaprofessor.net/2011/...tlers-gun-ban/

yawn
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:42 PM   #18
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Hitler only wanted people he trusted to have guns. Not everyone as per your link. What kind of Crazy Gov't would let those that appose you politically have weapons.

Link also goes onto use waco as a reference on how armed resistance is futile. I imagine jews in the ghetto would have appreciated a 50 day stand off before being slaughtered.

yawn
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:34 PM   #19
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Hitler only wanted people he trusted to have guns. Not everyone as per your link. What kind of Crazy Gov't would let those that appose you politically have weapons.

Link also goes onto use waco as a reference on how armed resistance is futile. I imagine jews in the ghetto would have appreciated a 50 day stand off before being slaughtered.

yawn
lol look up the Warsaw Uprising. As a hunter and gun owner I appreciate gun rights but I assure you that errand and his dad's 12-gauge are not what's standing between any government and tyranny.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:23 PM   #20
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lol look up the Warsaw Uprising. As a hunter and gun owner I appreciate gun rights but I assure you that errand and his dad's 12-gauge are not what's standing between any government and tyranny.
...well my 12-gauge, M-14, and 1911 .45 and .380 ankle piece (conceal carry)...not to mention as a former Recon Marine, I'm quite skilled at using explosives and have fired most military weapons in our arsenal like the TOW, mortars, claymores, M-60, 50-cal, etc....and many former military men and women side with me as well....just because I do not currently possess current military weaponry doesn't mean I can't operate it if I did acquire it.

BTW, I'm not the only one who is worried about our government over reaching their power.

As for whether or not we the people could defeat an army better equipped....well, we did in Revolutionary War...Texas did in their war for independence....partisans in Yugoslavia......Vietnam war....the rebels in Afghanistan in 1980's.....so history says it can be done.

again, in the US, our military swears an oath to defend the Constitution...not the president or our government.....because the Constitution puts limits on government, not we the people.

The question isn't if my "fears" are well founded....you can call me a nut job all you want....the question is what would YOU do if the government does?
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:57 PM   #21
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in Missouri and New York the Democrats have already submitted legislation to confiscate weapons from law abiding citizens...... add in the fact that Barack Obama has already stated that there should be a civillian security force that needs to be as well-armed, equipped and funded as our military.....can you say der Sturmabteilung?

I once saw a movie where only the police and the military had guns it was called Schindler's List.....
The day they Outlaw Guns is the day I become an Outlaw
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:33 PM   #22
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amazing how everyone wants to limit me to 10 rounds but government can get 1.6 billion
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:05 PM   #23
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amazing how everyone wants to limit me to 10 rounds but government can get 1.6 billion
I'm guessing from your posts, that you are sitting on your fair share of ammo. Amiright?
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:14 PM   #24
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:23 PM   #25
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Average Right Winger watching Fox Noise...

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