The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-04-2013, 09:54 AM   #1
Pony Boy
"Whoa Nellie"
 
Pony Boy's Avatar
 
Omaha !!!

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,659

Adopt-a-Bronco:
mellon head
Default Criminal Background Checks on Private Firearm Sales

Letís say a law is passed requiring private individuals to pass a National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NCS) when conducting a sale or transfer of ownership of a firearm.

1. Does that mean both the seller and buyer must pass background checks or just the buyer?

2. If we both pass the background check are we then allowed to proceed with the sale in private or will we be required to register the make model and serial number of the firearm with the ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms)? Say, I decide that I want to sell a firearm that was passed on to me from my grandfather. Obviously the original sale of the firearm cannot be traced to my grandfather and certainly not to me so why would I bother with a background check of the buyer?

3. There are millions and millions of firearms in the United States that were sold legally before 1998 that are not registered with the ATF. Therefore the law requiring private sellers to pass background checks would almost be impossible to enforce unless all firearms were registered with the ATF.

4. So by passing this law would are we opening the door for the ATF to eventually require all firearms to be registered?


I think only a handful in congress would dare cross that line.
Pony Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-04-2013, 10:06 AM   #2
W*GS
Ring of Famer
 
W*GS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 21,071
Default

40% of sales don't go through the NICS.

Would we allow 40% of air travelers to bypass airport security?
W*GS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 11:09 AM   #3
Pony Boy
"Whoa Nellie"
 
Pony Boy's Avatar
 
Omaha !!!

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,659

Adopt-a-Bronco:
mellon head
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W*GS View Post
40% of sales don't go through the NICS.

Would we allow 40% of air travelers to bypass airport security?
Should we require all passengers to do a criminal background or mental illness check before they can purchase an airline ticket or would this be a violation of their civil rights? We could add everyone to the no-fly list until they pass a background check.
Pony Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 11:33 AM   #4
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,140

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
Should we require all passengers to do a criminal background or mental illness check before they can purchase an airline ticket or would this be a violation of their civil rights? We could add everyone to the no-fly list until they pass a background check.
no,but all should go through security. just like all should get a BG check to buy a gun.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 12:22 PM   #5
Pony Boy
"Whoa Nellie"
 
Pony Boy's Avatar
 
Omaha !!!

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,659

Adopt-a-Bronco:
mellon head
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
no,but all should go through security. just like all should get a BG check to buy a gun.
Everyone that buys a new gun from a licensed dealer does go through a background check, it's the law.

You haven't answered the question, how will the sale between two private individuals of a legally owned firearm be enforced if there are no records of that firearm in the ATF files.

Yes, this is a loophole and there no way out of it unless you require all firearms in the U.S. to be registered with the ATF, and I can see all the knuckle draggers with their pants down below their ass getting in line to register their stolen guns.
Pony Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 05:13 PM   #6
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,140

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
Everyone that buys a new gun from a licensed dealer does go through a background check, it's the law.

You haven't answered the question, how will the sale between two private individuals of a legally owned firearm be enforced if there are no records of that firearm in the ATF files.

Yes, this is a loophole and there no way out of it unless you require all firearms in the U.S. to be registered with the ATF, and I can see all the knuckle draggers with their pants down below their ass getting in line to register their stolen guns.
only people talking about a registry are you & that idoit lapierre. there is no registry being pushed so their is no point in debating it.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 02:59 PM   #7
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
no,but all should go through security. just like all should get a BG check to buy a gun.
I could handle that for guns. You have a valid passport, you go through a metal detector into the gun shop. It takes a few hours as they verify you aren't a felon in a database, then you buy your gun and walk out.

Going through airport security takes a couple hours at the most in my experience. Are you saying that is about what you want for people to have to wait to get their guns?

I heard one liberal on the radio saying if it takes 3 months to do a proper background check then a person should have to wait 3 months to buy a gun.

do you agree with that liberal? Would you consider a 3 month waiting period to be acceptable to check someones background?
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 05:11 PM   #8
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,140

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
I could handle that for guns. You have a valid passport, you go through a metal detector into the gun shop. It takes a few hours as they verify you aren't a felon in a database, then you buy your gun and walk out.

Going through airport security takes a couple hours at the most in my experience. Are you saying that is about what you want for people to have to wait to get their guns?

I heard one liberal on the radio saying if it takes 3 months to do a proper background check then a person should have to wait 3 months to buy a gun.

do you agree with that liberal? Would you consider a 3 month waiting period to be acceptable to check someones background?
BG checks are only 3 days,5 minutes if its a rifle. even the head of the NRA supported closing gun show loop holes & 100% BG checks. of course it was no problem then after columbine,but now after newtown its a problem.

Last edited by peacepipe; 02-04-2013 at 05:13 PM..
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 03:00 PM   #9
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
Should we require all passengers to do a criminal background or mental illness check before they can purchase an airline ticket or would this be a violation of their civil rights? We could add everyone to the no-fly list until they pass a background check.
Why are you trying to make it so Peace can't fly? Even crazy people deserve to go on vacation!
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 06:23 PM   #10
myMind
splinters reality until
 
myMind's Avatar
 
We Grok

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,574

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
Should we require all passengers to do a criminal background or mental illness check before they can purchase an airline ticket or would this be a violation of their civil rights? We could add everyone to the no-fly list until they pass a background check.
Do you think felons should be allowed to vote?
myMind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 06:43 PM   #11
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,521
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by myMind View Post
Do you think felons should be allowed to vote?
No they shouldn't....and they shouldn't own guns either. but pray tell how many felons do you know that actually follow the laws of this nation? If they did, they wouldn't be felons, right?
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 07:55 PM   #12
Pony Boy
"Whoa Nellie"
 
Pony Boy's Avatar
 
Omaha !!!

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,659

Adopt-a-Bronco:
mellon head
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by myMind View Post
Do you think felons should be allowed to vote?
If a mentally ill person can't pass a background check to purchase a firearm, should they be able to vote? There is a difference between mentally ill and mentally incompetent so where do you draw the line?
Pony Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 03:19 PM   #13
lonestar
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West Texas
Posts: 6,203

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Decker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
If a mentally ill person can't pass a background check to purchase a firearm, should they be able to vote? There is a difference between mentally ill and mentally incompetent so where do you draw the line?
Whoa there, being logical is against OM policy.
lonestar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 12:12 PM   #14
lonestar
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West Texas
Posts: 6,203

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Decker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
Should we require all passengers to do a criminal background or mental illness check before they can purchase an airline ticket or would this be a violation of their civil rights? We could add everyone to the no-fly list until they pass a background check.
As far as I'm concerned nobama has no need to know who I buy from or sell to in a private sale.

And the odds of them getting my makes, models or serial numbers are slim and not a ****ing chance.
lonestar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 10:09 AM   #15
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,140

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 11:02 AM   #16
Pony Boy
"Whoa Nellie"
 
Pony Boy's Avatar
 
Omaha !!!

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,659

Adopt-a-Bronco:
mellon head
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
Please tell me how this law if passed would be enforced, you didn't answer any of the questions?

If a farmer buys a new shotgun and passes the NICS check and then goes home and sells his old shotgun to his neighbor over the back fence, how will the Feds find out that transaction takes place?
Pony Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 05:46 PM   #17
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,916
Default

I can't say i am against going through a reasonable background check. Thats it though nothing more peace? You are happy just with a background check for felonies right? This background check doesn't go into you went to a shrink once because you were depressed right? Its only based on felony convictions?
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 06:51 PM   #18
Pony Boy
"Whoa Nellie"
 
Pony Boy's Avatar
 
Omaha !!!

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,659

Adopt-a-Bronco:
mellon head
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
I can't say i am against going through a reasonable background check. Thats it though nothing more peace? You are happy just with a background check for felonies right? This background check doesn't go into you went to a shrink once because you were depressed right? Its only based on felony convictions?
I don't have a problem with a background when purchasing from a firearm dealer. I bought a Ruger LCP 380 semi-automatic handgun from a licensed dealer about 3 months ago, they performed a background check, filled out 4473 form and I was out the door with the gun in 20 minutes.

The problem is Obama calling for universal background checks that would require background checks between private citizens. That would be impossible to enforce.
Pony Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 05:17 PM   #19
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,521
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
I don't have a problem with a background when purchasing from a firearm dealer. I bought a Ruger LCP 380 semi-automatic handgun from a licensed dealer about 3 months ago, they performed a background check, filled out 4473 form and I was out the door with the gun in 20 minutes.

The problem is Obama calling for universal background checks that would require background checks between private citizens. That would be impossible to enforce.
I'm still waiting for the liberals to come up with their plan for keeping guns out of a criminal's hand. Because as always, criminals don't follow laws....hence the name "criminals".....

errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 06:36 AM   #20
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,140

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
I can't say i am against going through a reasonable background check. Thats it though nothing more peace? You are happy just with a background check for felonies right? This background check doesn't go into you went to a shrink once because you were depressed right? Its only based on felony convictions?
BG check should be no different than the BG checks 60% of gun buyers go through now.

hard to enforce murder charges if the state/gov. isnt aware of a murder. should we get rid of murder/manslaughter charges simply because they are not perfect in detering crime.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 05:49 PM   #21
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,916
Default

Also though I understand the NRA fighting every inch. Thats the best way to do it in Washington DC nowdays. Fight over the background checks and let that take steam out of the assault weapons ban. Otherwise you say right off we agree to background checks, the anti gun crowd would go straight to the next level of their agenda.

You agree with that Peace don't you? That is NRA conceeded the background check the fight would still move on to the clip size, maybe assault weapons ban etc. Not like agreeing to the background check makes the fight end so there is no reason to support it at this point, not for the NRA.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 05:55 PM   #22
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,916
Default

What i am asking peace is do you at least understand why the NRA fights so hard on every issue? its because they know the gun control crowd wants so much more then that. So you fight every issue to sap up the oppositions resources and time.

Immigration control, tax reform, N korea/Iran nuclear expansion, bad relationship with Russia, and a Palestinian still needed some sort of attention from Obama. Egypt a mess, Syria a mess, Libya a mess...hell they make the random bombing in Iraq seem like vacation. Syrians are going on vacation to Baghdad to get away from it all lol.

The NRA knows all of that these guys are not stupid. They turn 5 million members into a lot of money and use it well. They will target vulnerable dems and the vulnerable ones dont want to deal with too much NRA money going against them.

I think Obama only has so long to fight about guns. The NRA will fight tooth and nail right now on every issue to water down the final bill or outright defeat anything, leaving Obama to executive orders that could be overturned by Supreme Court if they went to far. In the end Obama is going to want to move on IMO.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 09:12 AM   #23
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,140

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
What i am asking peace is do you at least understand why the NRA fights so hard on every issue? its because they know the gun control crowd wants so much more then that. So you fight every issue to sap up the oppositions resources and time.

Immigration control, tax reform, N korea/Iran nuclear expansion, bad relationship with Russia, and a Palestinian still needed some sort of attention from Obama. Egypt a mess, Syria a mess, Libya a mess...hell they make the random bombing in Iraq seem like vacation. Syrians are going on vacation to Baghdad to get away from it all lol.

The NRA knows all of that these guys are not stupid. They turn 5 million members into a lot of money and use it well. They will target vulnerable dems and the vulnerable ones dont want to deal with too much NRA money going against them.

I think Obama only has so long to fight about guns. The NRA will fight tooth and nail right now on every issue to water down the final bill or outright defeat anything, leaving Obama to executive orders that could be overturned by Supreme Court if they went to far. In the end Obama is going to want to move on IMO.
I understand completely why NRA leadership fights so hard,it is how they make their money from gun manufacturers,who are the ones the NRA really represent.
Theres nothing obama has done that SCOTUS will overturn,even if a AR ban(not going to happen) is passed through congress.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 10:09 AM   #24
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
I understand completely why NRA leadership fights so hard,it is how they make their money from gun manufacturers,who are the ones the NRA really represent.
Theres nothing obama has done that SCOTUS will overturn,even if a AR ban(not going to happen) is passed through congress.
Well Obama hasn't done anything yet to get overturned so that is a moot point.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 10:33 AM   #25
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,140

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
Well Obama hasn't done anything yet to get overturned so that is a moot point.
he did sign 23 executive actions on this issue.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:58 PM.


Denver Broncos