Lying Liars and the Deficit Lies They Tell - The Orange Mane

Rohirrim · 01-31-2013, 03:34 PM

Here are the facts: In Reagan's first term, government spending grew 8.7 percent per year. In his second term, it grew 4.9 percent per year. Under Bush Sr., 5.4 percent per year. Under Clinton's two terms, 3.2 percent and 3.9 percent. Under Bush Jr., 7.3 percent and 8.1 percent.

Got all those numbers? Okay. Brace yourself. Under Obama: 1.4 percent.

Our current budget deficit has nothing to do with out-of-control Democratic spending and everything to do with a massive recession, tax cuts, two wars, and a scare campaign that Republicans have been successfully waging for decades to cover up their serial fiscal irresponsibility. Whether you let them fool you again is entirely up to you.
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...sh-republicans

Arkie · 01-31-2013, 04:52 PM

Spending goes up hundreds of billions each year. A percentage point today equals at least 10x more spending than it did 30 years ago simply because it's based on the previous year, which is usually at an all-time high.

TonyR · 02-05-2013, 11:55 AM

^ That's quite the rationalization. Percentages are better measurements than dollars for this type of comparison.

Arkie · 02-05-2013, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyR

^ That's quite the rationalization. Percentages are better measurements than dollars for this type of comparison.

Percentages alone are misleading. 1% today is bigger than 8% when spending started increasing. Look at the graph and you can visualize it.

DenverBrit · 02-05-2013, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkie

Percentages alone are misleading. 1% today is bigger than 8% when spending started increasing. Look at the graph and you can visualize it.

You really have to compare % of GDP, not a $ amount for obvious reasons.

For instance, $1 in 1940, is worth $16.43 today.

http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm

Arkie · 02-05-2013, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

You really have to compare % of GDP, not a $ amount for obvious reasons.

For instance, $1 in 1940, is worth $16.43 today.

http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm

Even as a % of GDP, it's the highest it's been since it spiked during WWII.

W*GS · 02-09-2013, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkie

Percentages alone are misleading. 1% today is bigger than 8% when spending started increasing. Look at the graph and you can visualize it.

Stupid chart. Not even constant dollars.

Arkie · 02-09-2013, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS

Stupid chart. Not even constant dollars.

Those are nominal dollars. The reason they aren't constant is because of the Fed's inflation tax. That being said, wages aren't even close to keeping up with that graph.

orinjkrush · 02-05-2013, 01:56 PM

i really do think the Repubs try to bankrupt government intentionally, and then show how "gubmint dont werk". Demonsh*ts are actually more responsible in government because they believe in it.

BroncoBeavis · 02-05-2013, 02:42 PM

New version of the same old shell game. Democrats kept running funding through the last few Bush months by continuing resolution. No FY2009 budget was passed and signed until the beginning of Obama's term (March of 2009). Congressional Democrats knew they couldn't get their wish list signed off on by Bush, so they didn't pass it until he was gone.

Ironic that they go straight from hiding their budget from Bush to blaming it on him. But that's exactly what's happening here.

Plus, all that TARP and Stimulus action was supposed to be a quick crisis-response infusion of cash into the economy. But Democrats, as many warned would happen, made it the new floor and kept growing spending from there. And for any of you arguing Obama wouldn't have done any of that. Good luck. He voted for it.

The fy2008 budget (the last one Bush had any say in) was $2.98 trillion. The fy2009 budget was $3.5 trillion, signed late by President Obama. Then a month later Obama rolled out his fy2010 budget request at $3.55T, which in reality became $3.7T.

And they've yet to pass a budget since. But having a 20% increase handed to you in your first few months in office makes that a little easier cushion to work with.

cutthemdown · 02-05-2013, 05:39 PM

Great stuff debunking yet again another liberal J-O thread.

Play2win · 02-05-2013, 07:16 PM

As far as I'm concerned, the next 20 years is just going to correct what GWB ****ed up in just **TWO** freaking years.

Arkie · 02-07-2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drunk idiot kicker

As far as I'm concerned, the next 20 years is just going to correct what GWB ****ed up in just **TWO** freaking years.

Well, the first 4 years didn't go as planned. That leaves us 16 years to dig ourselves out of a bigger hole.

cutthemdown · 02-07-2013, 02:49 PM

there is nothing Bush did that will **** America up for 20 yrs. That is liberals admitting their ideas don't work well but we like them anyways because at least we get our way.

BroncoBeavis · 02-07-2013, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

there is nothing Bush did that will **** America up for 20 yrs. That is liberals admitting their ideas don't work well but we like them anyways because at least we get our way.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. If they hold power for a thousand years, they'll still blame everything wrong on the 8 years prior.

nyuk nyuk · 02-09-2013, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. If they hold power for a thousand years, they'll still blame everything wrong on the 8 years prior.

Clearly. I also see people still crying "hanging chads."

nyuk nyuk · 02-09-2013, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Our current budget deficit has nothing to do with out-of-control Democratic spending and everything to do with a massive recession, tax cuts, two wars, and a scare campaign that Republicans have been successfully waging for decades to cover up their serial fiscal irresponsibility. Whether you let them fool you again is entirely up to you.[/I]
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...sh-republicans

Yes, Republicans' fault. Bottom line here:

Recession and war wasn't accepted as a reason under Bush by libs, so...

Shoe is on the other foot.

W*GS · 02-09-2013, 08:20 AM

Amazing how the righties put Bush's misadministration into their collective memory hole.

TonyR · 02-09-2013, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS

Amazing how the righties put Bush's misadministration into their collective memory hole.

Sullivan commented on this very subject yesterday:

Quote:

When you have a party that hasn’t been able to repudiate the worst administration in modern times, and actually still attempt to hail it as some kind of achievement with respect to Iraq or Afghanistan or the debt, you cannot persuade anyone you have changed, or want to change.

Someone in the GOP needs to take Bush-Cheney apart, to show how they created the debt crisis we are in, by throwing away a surplus on unaffordable tax cuts, launching two unfunded wars, and one new unfunded entitlement. They need to take on the war crimes that has deeply undermined the soul of the United States. They need to note the catastrophic negligence that gave us the worst national security lapse since Pearl Harbor (9/11) despite being warned explicitly in advance, accept weak and false intelligence to launch a war they were too incompetent to fight or win, sat back as one of the worst hurricanes all but took out a major city, and was so negligent in bank regulation that we ended up with Lehman and all that subsequently took place.

These were not minor errors. They were catastrophic misjudgments which took an era of peace, surplus and prosperity and replaced it with a dystopia of massive debt, a lawless executive branch, two unwinnable wars, and a record of war crimes that had their source in the very Oval Office.

When will the Republicans hold themselves accountable for the things that have persuaded so many that this bunch of fanatics and deniers are unfit for government? When will they speak of Bush and Cheney and repudiate them?

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/...-real-problem/

Queue the haters!!!

BroncoBeavis · 02-09-2013, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyR

Sullivan commented on this very subject yesterday:

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/...-real-problem/

Queue the haters!!!

Its always fun to watch Andy ”nuke Iraq" Sullivan's various bipolar ravings.

BroncoLifer · 02-09-2013, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyR

Sullivan commented on this very subject yesterday:

Did he follow it up with any Trig Palin comments?

Rohirrim · 02-09-2013, 09:19 AM

When you have a party that hasn’t been able to repudiate the worst administration in modern times, and actually still attempt to hail it as some kind of achievement with respect to Iraq or Afghanistan or the debt, you cannot persuade anyone you have changed, or want to change.

Someone in the GOP needs to take Bush-Cheney apart, to show how they created the debt crisis we are in, by throwing away a surplus on unaffordable tax cuts, launching two unfunded wars, and one new unfunded entitlement. They need to take on the war crimes that has deeply undermined the soul of the United States. They need to note the catastrophic negligence that gave us the worst national security lapse since Pearl Harbor (9/11) despite being warned explicitly in advance, accept weak and false intelligence to launch a war they were too incompetent to fight or win, sat back as one of the worst hurricanes all but took out a major city, and was so negligent in bank regulation that we ended up with Lehman and all that subsequently took place.

These were not minor errors. They were catastrophic misjudgments which took an era of peace, surplus and prosperity and replaced it with a dystopia of massive debt, a lawless executive branch, two unwinnable wars, and a record of war crimes that had their source in the very Oval Office.

When will the Republicans hold themselves accountable for the things that have persuaded so many that this bunch of fanatics and deniers are unfit for government? When will they speak of Bush and Cheney and repudiate them?

There you have it, in a nutshell, by Andrew Sullivan. The Right lives in its own little bubble of misinfo and self-delusion. With their tax cuts and deregulation, they disemboweled 80 years of progressive governance. And now they blame the resulting disaster on progressive-ism.

W*GS · 02-09-2013, 09:26 AM

And, of course, debt as a percentage of GDP.

nyuk nyuk · 02-10-2013, 10:20 AM

I'm quite sure if I looked in the archives of the Mane that I would find defenses of the debt under GW Bush... I'm quite sure.

W*GS · 02-10-2013, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk

I'm quite sure if I looked in the archives of the Mane that I would find defenses of the debt under GW Bush... I'm quite sure.

Yep, from one or more of your previous incarnations.

01-31-2013, 03:34 PM	#1
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 48,852	Lying Liars and the Deficit Lies They Tell Here are the facts: In Reagan's first term, government spending grew 8.7 percent per year. In his second term, it grew 4.9 percent per year. Under Bush Sr., 5.4 percent per year. Under Clinton's two terms, 3.2 percent and 3.9 percent. Under Bush Jr., 7.3 percent and 8.1 percent. Got all those numbers? Okay. Brace yourself. Under Obama: 1.4 percent. Our current budget deficit has nothing to do with out-of-control Democratic spending and everything to do with a massive recession, tax cuts, two wars, and a scare campaign that Republicans have been successfully waging for decades to cover up their serial fiscal irresponsibility. Whether you let them fool you again is entirely up to you. http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...sh-republicans

02-05-2013, 02:42 PM	#10
BroncoBeavis Just Draughted Lupus Methylphenthylaminus? Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,937	New version of the same old shell game. Democrats kept running funding through the last few Bush months by continuing resolution. No FY2009 budget was passed and signed until the beginning of Obama's term (March of 2009). Congressional Democrats knew they couldn't get their wish list signed off on by Bush, so they didn't pass it until he was gone. Ironic that they go straight from hiding their budget from Bush to blaming it on him. But that's exactly what's happening here. Plus, all that TARP and Stimulus action was supposed to be a quick crisis-response infusion of cash into the economy. But Democrats, as many warned would happen, made it the new floor and kept growing spending from there. And for any of you arguing Obama wouldn't have done any of that. Good luck. He voted for it. The fy2008 budget (the last one Bush had any say in) was $2.98 trillion. The fy2009 budget was $3.5 trillion, signed late by President Obama. Then a month later Obama rolled out his fy2010 budget request at $3.55T, which in reality became $3.7T. And they've yet to pass a budget since. But having a 20% increase handed to you in your first few months in office makes that a little easier cushion to work with. Last edited by BroncoBeavis; 02-05-2013 at 03:10 PM..

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01-31-2013, 04:52 PM	#2
Arkie Ring of Famer Gggggrrrrrr rrrraaaahhh Arrrrhhhn. Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 9,086 Adopt-a-Bronco: Quinton Carter	Spending goes up hundreds of billions each year. A percentage point today equals at least 10x more spending than it did 30 years ago simply because it's based on the previous year, which is usually at an all-time high.

02-05-2013, 11:55 AM	#3
TonyR Franchise Poster Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Mid-Atlantic Posts: 15,584	^ That's quite the rationalization. Percentages are better measurements than dollars for this type of comparison.

02-05-2013, 01:56 PM	#9
orinjkrush ... Prospects for the future... Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DistrictOfCorruption Posts: 4,914 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ben Garland	i really do think the Repubs try to bankrupt government intentionally, and then show how "gubmint dont werk". Demonsh*ts are actually more responsible in government because they believe in it.

02-05-2013, 05:39 PM	#11
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,528	Great stuff debunking yet again another liberal J-O thread.

02-05-2013, 07:16 PM	#12
Play2win Ring of Famer Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 9,610 Adopt-a-Bronco: The Duke	As far as I'm concerned, the next 20 years is just going to correct what GWB **ed up in just TWO** freaking years.

02-07-2013, 02:49 PM	#14
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,528	there is nothing Bush did that will **** America up for 20 yrs. That is liberals admitting their ideas don't work well but we like them anyways because at least we get our way.

02-09-2013, 08:20 AM	#18
W*GS Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 19,511	Amazing how the righties put Bush's misadministration into their collective memory hole.

02-09-2013, 09:19 AM	#22
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 48,852	When you have a party that hasn’t been able to repudiate the worst administration in modern times, and actually still attempt to hail it as some kind of achievement with respect to Iraq or Afghanistan or the debt, you cannot persuade anyone you have changed, or want to change. Someone in the GOP needs to take Bush-Cheney apart, to show how they created the debt crisis we are in, by throwing away a surplus on unaffordable tax cuts, launching two unfunded wars, and one new unfunded entitlement. They need to take on the war crimes that has deeply undermined the soul of the United States. They need to note the catastrophic negligence that gave us the worst national security lapse since Pearl Harbor (9/11) despite being warned explicitly in advance, accept weak and false intelligence to launch a war they were too incompetent to fight or win, sat back as one of the worst hurricanes all but took out a major city, and was so negligent in bank regulation that we ended up with Lehman and all that subsequently took place. These were not minor errors. They were catastrophic misjudgments which took an era of peace, surplus and prosperity and replaced it with a dystopia of massive debt, a lawless executive branch, two unwinnable wars, and a record of war crimes that had their source in the very Oval Office. When will the Republicans hold themselves accountable for the things that have persuaded so many that this bunch of fanatics and deniers are unfit for government? When will they speak of Bush and Cheney and repudiate them? There you have it, in a nutshell, by Andrew Sullivan. The Right lives in its own little bubble of misinfo and self-delusion. With their tax cuts and deregulation, they disemboweled 80 years of progressive governance. And now they blame the resulting disaster on progressive-ism.

02-09-2013, 09:26 AM	#23
W*GS Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 19,511	And, of course, debt as a percentage of GDP.

02-10-2013, 10:20 AM	#24
nyuk nyuk Owns scary-looking rifle Obstructionist Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: 5280 Posts: 2,828 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Manning	I'm quite sure if I looked in the archives of the Mane that I would find defenses of the debt under GW Bush... I'm quite sure.