Clady.

[lonestar]

Was answering in the Clady thread and it disappeared

So here is my answer.

Originally Posted by nickademus

Leave the cap stuff to eddiemac he is usually right on and doesnt include blind speculation about what the owner will or wont do.

Not blind speculation but the facts ver the past few years going back to at least Josh maybe even the last year under mikey, we have been under the cap..

Remember all those stories about Pat being broke. While my friend they started then.

We had 11 and change inside that 18.5 that we are under the cap this year, that 11 came from last year. Being under last years cap.

Facts are facts.

Prove me wrong.

As for what he will do this year not sure but MAX we had as of the EOY was 18.5. That is a reported fact from sources other than Eddiemac.

While I have load s of respect for him, I also know the research I did at taphan time we had 35 player under contract for 2013. With only 18.5 mil to spend to round out the roster.

Even if we cut dumb ass Williams that ony saves us 4.3 million. His salary of 6 less his prorated 1.7 bonus money.

While that is another 4.3 you will spend about 700k or more to replace him. So the bet net is 3.6.

Show me where I'm wrong.

[Kaylore]

You started a new thread to continue an argument?

[ColoradoDarin]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

You started a new thread to continue an argument?

Derp is derp.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

You started a new thread to continue an argument?

no to continue debate..

someone ask a question I answered it..

if they moved the thread then let them merge it if they deleted a thread that had a good discussion going on, I'd like to know why..

[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

You started a new thread to continue an argument?

Agree it's a lame premise, but this thread could help form a consensus going forward.

Ryan Clady was named AP 1st-Team All Pro for 2012 - ahead of Joe Thomas - and to the Pro Bowl team. Most agree you never let an elite talent just walk when the franchise tag is available. So, notwithstanding lonetstar's needlessly complicated and out of context cap numbers, the offseason questions about whether Clady was overrated-on the downside-not that great have been settled.

Now can we all agree we should either PAY him or TAG him?

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Agree it's a lame premise, but this thread could help form a consensus going forward.

Ryan Clady was named AP 1st-Team All Pro for 2012 - ahead of Joe Thomas - and to the Pro Bowl team. Most agree you never let an elite talent just walk when the franchise tag is available. So, notwithstanding lonetstar's needlessly complicated and out of context cap numbers, the offseason questions about whether Clady was overrated-on the downside-not that great have been settled.

Now can we all agree we should either PAY him or TAG him?

Personally I'd never pay him long term..

if any thing tag him while we train a newbie to learn the position..

while he is "voted" in tot eh pro-bowl we all know it is a popularity contest..

I'm happy for him, but he has not been that "great" OT since his knee issue a few years ago..

his run blocking is not elite and he gets beat by speed rushers something he did not do in his first years.. now does that mean he gave up sacks, no but Manning has "risen all boats" a phrase most have used on this site since he got here..

IMO he can be replaced with a rookie and TAG him if you have to.. he simply is not worth 12 million a year long term..

[Mountain Bronco]

Originally Posted by lonestar

if any thing

...

[24champ]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Personally I'd never pay him long term..

if any thing tag him while we train a newbie to learn the position..

while he is "voted" in tot eh pro-bowl we all know it is a popularity contest..

I'm happy for him, but he has not been that "great" OT since his knee issue a few years ago..

his run blocking is not elite and he gets beat by speed rushers something he did not do in his first years.. now does that mean he gave up sacks, no but Manning has "risen all boats" a phrase most have used on this site since he got here..

IMO he can be replaced with a rookie ]and TAG him if you have to.. he simply is not worth 12 million a year long term..

Mhmmm. Which brings me to my next point. Don't smoke crack.

[loborugger]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

You started a new thread to continue an argument?

You may have an issue with the interwebz when...

[RhymesayersDU]

Cool story bro.

[DENVERDUI55]

Lonestar say we let Clady walk who do you want to replace him?

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55

Lonestar say we let Clady walk who do you want to replace him?

I'm not big college fan so have to wait for the north south game to play out as well as the combine..

I have heard there are loads of great OT in this draft.. I suspect that John and John are watching these kids with a very keen eye.. no sense in spending about 12 mil each year of cladys new contract (10 per year in salary and 2 for the prorated bonus money) if you can get one for 25% of that..

since the myth of having to have an elite OLT went away with the advent of the quick passing game, that we have went to and I suspect will stay with even after Manning retires..

that means fewer IF ANY 5-7 step drop back passing plays, the thing that meant having to have a GREAT OLT..

I'd guess since we can't afford Clady after this past year, I see no way of out bidding lots of the bottom feeding team for him.. John made a play last year to get him cheaper but he wanted to go for the gusto..

[Missouribronc]

Originally Posted by lonestar

I'm not big college fan so have to wait for the north south game to play out as well as the combine..

I have heard there are loads of great OT in this draft.. I suspect that John and John are watching these kids with a very keen eye.. no sense in spending about 12 mil each year of cladys new contract (10 per year in salary and 2 for the prorated bonus money) if you can get one for 25% of that..

since the myth of having to have an elite OLT went away with the advent of the quick passing game, that we have went to and I suspect will stay with even after Manning retires..

that means fewer IF ANY 5-7 step drop back passing plays, the thing that meant having to have a GREAT OLT..

I'd guess since we can't afford Clady after this past year, I see no way of out bidding lots of the bottom feeding team for him.. John made a play last year to get him cheaper but he wanted to go for the gusto..

That's not a myth. And Denver can afford Clady. They offered him a deal on the low end after a sub par year. He took a gamble and said no, and then played his ass off and is now recognized as one of the best in the game.

What a stupid thread.

[Jason7730]

Originally Posted by Missouribronc

That's not a myth. And Denver can afford Clady. They offered him a deal on the low end after a sub par year. He took a gamble and said no, and then played his ass off and is now recognized as one of the best in the game.

What a stupid thread.

^ +1

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Jason7730

^ +1

Really a great post why not try to refute me instead.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by Missouribronc

That's not a myth. And Denver can afford Clady. They offered him a deal on the low end after a sub par year. He took a gamble and said no, and then played his ass off and is now recognized as one of the best in the game.

What a stupid thread.

Here are the facts.

We had as a month ago 35 players under contract for 2013.
At that time we had 18.5 million under the cap.

We have since signed ten players to future contracts money unknown to me.

Since the roster is 53 and we had 18.5 to spend if Pat allows them to spend every dime, and since he has not the past four years there is little to elite he will this year .

We need 53 to fill out the roster. Means that 18 players have to fit under the cap numbers plus anther 7-10 that will hit IR before the end of the season.. All of which are going to have to be paid and still stay under the cap.

If you spend 12 million n Clady. 10 in salary and 2 in prorated bonus money. How are you going to to be able to afford to fill it the roster.

MO your smart where is the money going to come from.

Or do yu think all of those almost 30 players are going to fit into 6 million dollar..

Again IF Pat allows them to max there salary cap. Which he has not in at least 4 years.

Show me the mney MO.

I know they tried to sign him cheap last year. It back fired and now some other team will out bid them plain and simple

Unless he takes the same contract they offered him last year or less.

What are those odds?

Show me the money MO.

[Missouribronc]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Here are the facts.

We had as a month ago 35 players under contract for 2013.
At that time we had 18.5 million under the cap.

We have since signed ten players to future contracts money unknown to me.

Since the roster is 53 and we had 18.5 to spend if Pat allows them to spend every dime, and since he has not the past four years there is little to elite he will this year .

We need 53 to fill out the roster. Means that 18 players have to fit under the cap numbers plus anther 7-10 that will hit IR before the end of the season.. All of which are going to have to be paid and still stay under the cap.

If you spend 12 million n Clady. 10 in salary and 2 in prorated bonus money. How are you going to to be able to afford to fill it the roster.

MO your smart where is the money going to come from.

Or do yu think all of those almost 30 players are going to fit into 6 million dollar..

Again IF Pat allows them to max there salary cap. Which he has not in at least 4 years.

Show me the mney MO.

I know they tried to sign him cheap last year. It back fired and now some other team will out bid them plain and simple

Unless he takes the same contract they offered him last year or less.

What are those odds?

Show me the money MO.

You're overreacting. And clueless, as well.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55

Lonestar say we let Clady walk who do you want to replace him?

I'm not big college fan so have to wait for the north south game to play out as well as the combine..

I have heard there are loads of great OT in this draft.. I suspect that John and John are watching these kids with a very keen eye.. no sense in spending about 12 mil each year of cladys new contract (10 per year in salary and 2 for the prorated bonus money) if you can get one for 25% of that..

since the myth of having to have an elite OLT went away with the advent of the quick passing game, that we have went to and I suspect will stay with even after Manning retires..

that means fewer IF ANY 5-7 step drop back passing plays, the thing that meant having to have a GREAT OLT..

I'd guess since we can't afford Clady after this past year, I see no way of out bidding lots of the bottom feeding team for him.. John made a play last year to get him cheaper but he wanted to go for the gusto..

[Mountain Bronco]

Originally Posted by lonestar

that we have went to

...

[cmhargrove]

Originally Posted by lonestar

I'm not big college fan so have to wait for the north south game to play out as well as the combine..

I have heard there are loads of great OT in this draft.. I suspect that John and John are watching these kids with a very keen eye.. no sense in spending about 12 mil each year of cladys new contract (10 per year in salary and 2 for the prorated bonus money) if you can get one for 25% of that..

since the myth of having to have an elite OLT went away with the advent of the quick passing game, that we have went to and I suspect will stay with even after Manning retires..

that means fewer IF ANY 5-7 step drop back passing plays, the thing that meant having to have a GREAT OLT..

I'd guess since we can't afford Clady after this past year, I see no way of out bidding lots of the bottom feeding team for him.. John made a play last year to get him cheaper but he wanted to go for the gusto..

What is it with bat-**** crazy posts and threads today? There has to be something in the water...

You don't go spend $18 mil per year on Manning then cobble together an offensive line. Remember that Peyton chose us, and has the option to walk away if he wants. There is no way that Elway and Bowlen will take away our pieces of the O-line that work. If anything, Kuper's injury puts the Broncos FO in a much more difficult bargaining position with Clady. Mess with too many pieces, and Manning's neck might get snapped off.

You will be paying starter money to any FA Left Tackle in the offseason - there is no good reason not to re-sign Clady.

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by cmhargrove

What is it with bat-**** crazy posts and threads today? There has to be something in the water...

You don't go spend $18 mil per year on Manning then cobble together an offensive line. Remember that Peyton chose us, and has the option to walk away if he wants. There is no way that Elway and Bowlen will take away our pieces of the O-line that work. If anything, Kuper's injury puts the Broncos FO in a much more difficult bargaining position with Clady. Mess with too many pieces, and Manning's neck might get snapped off.

You will be paying starter money to any FA Left Tackle in the offseason - there is no good reason not to re-sign Clady.

Everyone knows that rookies can be drafted and step in and play at Pro Bowl levels right away, just look at how it has worked out for duh bears.

Football players are all interchangeable parts. Anyone coming out of college is equal or better to proven vets who have made pro bowls and stuff.

DUH....

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

Everyone knows that rookies can be drafted and step in and play at Pro Bowl levels right away, just look at how it has worked out for duh bears.

Football players are all interchangeable parts. Anyone coming out of college is equal or better to proven vets who have made pro bowls and stuff.

DUH....

Get a clue. No one has said they would play at pro bowl levels.

If anything I have said that having an elite OLT is not as necessary as before.

We do not have a QB that hangs on t the ball like some other teams.

We have a guy that throws more from the shot gun and rarely takes long drops when he plays under center.

He gets rid of the ball fast.

And even your God Clady has been beat by speed rushers. He is not great at run blocking and his performance since his knee operation leaves a lot to be desired.

Last year he led the league in holding calls. Sure it was a different QB which in itself shows that Manning has risen all boats. We flat do not need to have 5 all pros in front of him like you seem to be implying.

Now I would love to have tha many as I'm very firm in my belief that you win or lose on the LOS. But we will not be able to outbid bottom dwellers for his contract we flat do not have the money to do so.

If we did then I'm all for giving him a decent new contact. But he will eat more than half of our cap space this year and leave the other 8-9 million to sign some 25 other player to fill out the roster.

Do you see that happening. Or just want to be a wisea SS some more.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by cmhargrove

What is it with bat-**** crazy posts and threads today? There has to be something in the water...

You don't go spend $18 mil per year on Manning then cobble together an offensive line. Remember that Peyton chose us, and has the option to walk away if he wants. There is no way that Elway and Bowlen will take away our pieces of the O-line that work. If anything, Kuper's injury puts the Broncos FO in a much more difficult bargaining position with Clady. Mess with too many pieces, and Manning's neck might get snapped off.

You will be paying starter money to any FA Left Tackle in the offseason - there is no good reason not to re-sign Clady.

Yes ther is a reason we do not have the money. He will cost cap wise between 9 and 12 million a year. Since we have less than 19 million to sign as many as 25 more players to fill out the roster. Your going to spend over half of it for one spot?


Not likely. Show me the money your going to pay him with.

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Yes ther is a reason we do not have the money. He will cost cap wise between 9 and 12 million a year. Since we have less than 19 million to sign as many as 25 more players to fill out the roster. Your going to spend over half of it for one spot?


Not likely. Show me the money your going to pay him with.

Dummerville should restructure or extend, he is costing us 16 mill against the cap next year if I got the right info from Spotrac. If they can get him to extend out another 3-4 years they should be able to trim his cap hit down at least 6mill or more but Eddie Mac would know better than me. Plus this would be a good year to hit up Elvis, he had a good year but no where near what he had when he signed his last deal, throw in the 2 sub par years after getting paid and he should be cool if he wants to win.

They need to resign Clady, we are in an all or nothing position once we signed Manning, to let Clady walk and develop his replacement over the next couple years would be insanity.

Only other real option would be if they were real high on Franklin, move him to LT, shifted Beadles to RT (or draft a new RT) then draft a G. They still need to figure what to do at C so we could have a totally different OL where consistency is prized.

There is money to be moved around, I trust the FO to squeeze it out.

I am not expecting a big money FA Henry Melton type signing this year though. I bet we keep what we have and hope to draft well or maybe make a trade or 2. We do have a very good young core everywhere except for PM.

If you wanted to cut someone to save money cut Doom Not Clady.

[DarkHorse30]

Originally Posted by lonestar

Was answering in the Clady thread and it disappeared

So here is my answer.



Not blind speculation but the facts ver the past few years going back to at least Josh maybe even the last year under mikey, we have been under the cap..

Remember all those stories about Pat being broke. While my friend they started then.

We had 11 and change inside that 18.5 that we are under the cap this year, that 11 came from last year. Being under last years cap.

Facts are facts.

Prove me wrong.

As for what he will do this year not sure but MAX we had as of the EOY was 18.5. That is a reported fact from sources other than Eddiemac.

While I have load s of respect for him, I also know the research I did at taphan time we had 35 player under contract for 2013. With only 18.5 mil to spend to round out the roster.

Even if we cut dumb ass Williams that ony saves us 4.3 million. His salary of 6 less his prorated 1.7 bonus money.

While that is another 4.3 you will spend about 700k or more to replace him. So the bet net is 3.6.

Show me where I'm wrong.

I missed the other thread. What is the point of your thread title and your first post? I'm unclear because Clady is not mentioned in the post